When I came on board as one of the managers of vibrationtraining.net, I never heard of whole body vibration. The only thing in my schemata that I could relate it to was the old belt vibrating device my cousin’s mother had in the 1980′S.
As I began to work on the site, editing posts and reviewing comments, my curiosity was really peaked as I learned more and more about VT. On a side note, vibration training was also recommended by my doctor after he diagnosed me with a kidney stone.
Just over a month ago I decided to give it a go. I was still a bit skeptical that I could get a good workout on such a device for such a short amount of time. I wasn’t out of shape and have been using free weights for many years as part of my fitness routine.
When I went to the studio for my free trial, the trainer asked me to fill out a short health questionnaire and then we quickly got started. She put me in the first pose (basic squat) and she started the device. After about 30 seconds my legs began to burn and I was completely surprised about how difficult it was. I also noted that the vibrations weren’t at all uncomfortable to my teeth, eyes, or brain which is a common fear among those new to the process.
After 15 minutes of instruction and being on the platform, I felt as though I had worked out for at least 45 minutes. Needless to say, I was completely impressed. As the weeks have progressed some of the poses have gotten a little easier, but my trainer has been great in showing me some variations that allow for a harder training session.
As far as my body goes, I have noticed that my legs and glutes are more toned and developed. My upper-body seems a little more defined as well. Honestly, I’m quite impressed with the way vibration training works out my legs, but I feel as though my upper body could use a bit more. I find if I go home and lift some free weights directly after my session, I feel as though I’ve had a really good workout.
This skeptic has been won over and I’ve even recommended VT to my flatmate who happens to compete in events such as the Xterra and other biking events. He gave it a try and also was quite impressed with how much it worked out his legs.
If you’ve been wanting to give vibration training a try, but have been a bit leery, I encourage you to find your nearest reputable studio and give it a shot. I think you’ll be glad you did. Please feel free to comment here about your experience.
{ 52 comments… read them below or add one }
Lets keep comments on this post related to people’s personal experiences with VT. Cheers!
Hi Ted, your experience seems very similar to mine. I had no idea what to expect and really didn’t even know why I wanted to try Vibration Training except that I’d seen adverts in a local magazine for about a year previously and I was intrigued by this new exercise machine. I don’t follow new trends often so this was unusual for me.
I started off wondering if it could in any measure help me recover fitness as I had two injuries: a cartilage tear in one knee that was healing okay but very long term and I’d had a fall resulting in injury to my gluteus maximus (mid/side bum) giving me a continual ache and involvement of the piriformis muscle (in back) which caused a nerve pain down the whole length of my left leg, rather like sciatica. I could not sit for more than 5 minutes and travel by car, bus, plane was intolerable. This I think, comes about when the hip alignment is out and thigh bone also not aligned.
I had resigned myself to continual low-grade pain on good days and agony on others. I was looking for any means to improve my fitness and get back to long distance walking and a bit of jogging. I’d given up expecting a cure for my glutes and leg pain as I’d had over a year of physiotherapy and osteopath treatment with some relief but the pain soon returned.
I searched for the Vibra-Train studio twice without finding it but late one afternoon walked right past it and stopped. (It’s in a lane, not on main street hence I’d missed it). Looking in for quite a while, then Lloyd came and invited us in and I got to try a machine just with one foot on the machine for a few seconds and listen to Lloyd tell me about it.
That was enough – I went back next day and I’ve been a “believer” ever since!
Along with all the fitness and health benefits I have gained, the pain in my back/side and nerve pain in my leg eased after a few weeks and after around six weeks it was gone. Now almost two years later I’m not going to claim a miracle cure as I still have a very minor weakness and get nerve pain down just the top half of my leg occaisionally after sitting for long periods but it’s becoming less often. I have travelled for over six hours by car several times and had no discomfort. Time did not bring this healing as I had, had excellent physical therapy for 15 months previous to starting Vibration Training with no real results yet Vibration Training (on a quality machine) gave me 75% healing within 3 weeks, totally unexpected and I was not promised this by any of the Instructors. In fact I probably didn’t tell them much about my pain as I was scared they wouldn’t let me on the machines.
So that’s my experience and now I am 100% healed from that terrible nerve pain and if I do get any relapse (maybe a day or two every 4-6 months) it is because I have sat for long periods in a low chair and always I have been lax in my Vibration Training. A few sessions and I am okay again. I never have pain sufficient to require pain meds.
I wrote that I’m not claiming a “miracle cure” but I can definitely say that I am completely okay now. It seems that a weakness remains and maybe the fact that I am no longer 20 years old, just a little older
is the reason. As I continue with Vibration Training on a good quality machine 2 – 3 times a week I’m expecting my body alignment, my muscle tone and nerves to become so regenerated that I can forget that I ever has this injury.
I re-injured my knee earlier this year, being determined to run a half-marathon without adequate practise despite being told not to, and it’s taking a long time healing this time but again, vibration training is speeding up recovery by breaking up scar tissue (saves me paying the Physio to do it), and by increasing tissue rejuvination. Cartilage takes a long time to repair so speeding it up is good news for me.
I’ve described some of the therapy uses of Vibration Training which can be done specifically to help with healing. For me they have been side effects of using the machines on the full regular fitness program so I gain in so many ways!
Just a correction, My injury was to Gluteus Medius not Maximus which are, of course, the cheeks of your bottom. I didn’t fall down onto my bottom, which has enough padding to cope with a fall. I fell forward jarring my left hip area on the side opposite to that which took the brunt of the fall (I grazed my arm, elbow and knee on my right side, which all healed up easily).
About the article’s question re: upper body limitations with WBV – has there been any more recent research to discover how to involve this part of the body more? Like, having more units with side bars to continue the vibration more to the upper body rather than just the straps. With more people with lots of neck and back arthritis that would help rather than attempting the more difficult positions like push up positions which a lot of older folks can’t get into.
Thanks again.
Kris…
Yes , it is a logical step , I have had these units since 2004. The handle bars must be able to function perfectly at a full body tricep dip level , in other words still operate under the same weight you advertise the plate can take.
Note: We also use them for people with hip/knee operations and for people who find taking their whole weight in a squat impossible .
http://www.vibra-train.com/machines.html
In the future companies will have these as standard , but you must understand most are still working on building machines that work well and don’t break. Adding another engineering issue like proper workout Vibrating Handle bars is asking way too much.
So why not just bolt some to the side…?
Think about this , the bars have to be 3 feet high for the average person to use. If the machine is even slightly unbalanced ( 3D movement ) the movement in the handle bars becomes extreme , visible and dangerous . Add that to the force a proper training unit produces and it could snap your wrist. I am not joking.
Varying weight has to be able to be put anywhere on the platform and the machine still stay perfectly balanced. Something computer programs designed for balancing machinery cant account for. A special program would have to be written. If not vibration fatigue will cause so much damage to both the hull and handle bars the warranty work would sink a company alone.
They also have other resonance issues that are too complicated to list here.
Until companies stop hiding behind straps as a cheap and brainless option , and move forward in their engineering , they will be a rarity .
Note. Lighter Therapy units do not have the above issues , so should have them soon .
I am only new to using a pivotal machine, and have done 10 sessions to date, since the 8th March. I am using the Hypervibe performance machine, and trust that it can deliver training and toning effects as well as therapy levels that Murray assures me it can.
I have definitely seen strengthening in my legs from a very early stage, and this happened quite quickly, and I am able to do 1 min in a small squat at 26Hz, though the last 30 secs can be an effort for me.
The only disappointment I have is with the upper body.
I have experimented with various positions and really only have managed to do a pushup pose successfully as the other positions are just too jarring to my head. However, I am not seeing too much ‘gain’ as far as training effect from this position on my back or arms
The tricep dip, I can just manage sometimes but the shaking in my head makes me not want to do it — but the plank position is impossible due to what is to me quite violent head shakes and pain inside skull at those times. The pain does not stay when the machine stops, but it is not something I have ever liked throughout my life — having my head shaken. I am aware that I have a sensitivity in that area and always have — but was hoping to ‘shake’ that one out of me
I would appreciate some suggestions re the upper body.
Also, another querie, is with regard to the training effect on muscles the next day for example. So far, even if I have worked hard to do the whole minute in a squat at the high Hz, I have not as yet felt any muscle soreness the next day — which is what I am used to if I work my muscles more than they are used to. Is this to be expected? That there will be no soreness?
I look forward to any suggestions and comments
Robyn
Hi Robyn,
I am sorry for not having got back to you earlier on this. I have travelled almost 10,000 K’s and to 4 destinations since my email last week. I have cut & paste your questions to our physio for further comment as earlier suggested too.
I will do my best to tackle it here…
In my opinion correct posture for upper body is more difficult and users should be more cautious. Avoiding excessive vibration to the head is important on any machine, but is some degree of head vibration cannot be avoided. It is a matter of minimising it through correct posture. With that in mind, it is also unavoidable that you receive much more vibration to the head during upper body exercises than lower body, and it is certainly not for everyone. The trials we are currently running at James Cook University are using lower body exercise only for the same reason. I cannot comment about this with lineal vibration, as I have not had the experience.
The two most important factors of upper body exercise to avoid head vibration are
1) elbow flexion
2) positioning of the head
My advice is to create a greater elbow flexion angle to dampen the vibrations. With regards to positioning of your head, when in a push up or plank, try shifting your head forward toward the post. The majority of the vibrations are transmitted vertically up through the arms and if you can move your head away from that path, you will experience less discomfort.
With regards to delayed muscle soreness. I believe I have read an article posted by Lloyd here, I will try to find a link.
My expertise is not in physiology so the above is based on my understanding only. You should receive a response from our physio shortly, and should you have further questions please follow it up with Glenn.
I still plan on paying you a visit when I return home
Cheers,
Murray
For Robyn,
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2008/08/delayed-muscle-soreness-and-vibration-training
Robyn.
When you are doing the press up position make sure your elbows are not locked, if your head is being shaken too much then try bringing your hands closer together, also slow the machine down untill you get used to it.
As far as the plank position is concerned I would recommend not doing it on a pivotal machine, way to difficult to do with out risking injury, stick to the swiss ball for that one. Remember with the plank position all you are trying to achieve is destabilization of the core causing your smaller muscle groups to activate, only safe on a linaer machine.
It beats me why people try and add as many excercise as they can when it comes to vibration training/therepy, just because it is safe on a swiss ball or the floor does not make it safe on a machine.
Mike,
The plank exercise (on pivtal machines) is used here in Australia by physio’s and physiologist’s with years of experience in WBV.
What leads you to believe this position is not safe?
Thanks Murray and Mike
Murray
I knew you were still away and busy, so just thought I would put it on the forum in the meantime.
Re the pushup position, I had worked that one out, by moving more forward with my head and am comfortably able to include that one.
I searched for as many exercise charts as I could before beginning, to see if there was any clear recommendations that were different for pivotal than for the lineal to add to what Lloyd had already said in this regard. One of the charts I came across was from a Galileo site, so I thought it would have been reliable in that department. Included on this chart were some I have queries about with regard to safety eg., those for the abdominals, and the torso twist and the single foot lunge. I will be asking the physio from Murray’s site as well, but would like the more experienced pivotal users and those just experienced their thoughts on that workout and those particular abovementioned positions.
The chart can be found on
http://www.galileouk.co.uk/exercises.html
click on the chart and it opens as a .pdf
No problem Robyn, I’m in Perth but have had a weekend off.
Yep, head forward definitely will help with the head vibration, actually the Galileo pdf you linked to shows it well.
You will be hard pressed to find anyone more experienced with pivotal vibration than the physio who provides our email support. He has also produced his own exercise guides (plank included
), so you should be able to get plenty of input from him.
I have found some pretty unique exercises promoted by Galileo/Vibraflex. If you look on youtube you will find golf swings, jumps etc.. Quite different from Lloyd’s lineal static safety program.
I can see the need for safety programs when these machines are being used unsupervised, and I think that is the key (unsupervised) why the more extreme stuff is not recommended by some.
There does seem to be a lot of conflicting information around. I am still trying to make sense of some of it myself.
Robyn….
Try this safety Pivotal ab position.
Put a foam mat on the machine. Face away from the machine face down putting your knees on the outer edges of each side of the platform. Point your legs towards the ceiling.
Rest on your albows on the ground and slightly raise your bum towards the ceiling. Stare at the floor.
Start off at 14 hz and go for the entire 60 sec.
Go try it and get back to us.
Hi Murray
doing an ab workout the way Lloyd descibes it sounds safer, the plank that i have seen and tried is with your forearms on the platform and is very uncomfortable not to mention very hard on the shoulders and neck, maybe i was doing it wrong but for the general public left to there own device, I do not see this one as safe.
Mike
Just tried the plank on a pivotal machine
1. Forearms on platform, knees on the floor – 14hz. Very uncomfortable through the shoulders and neck, way to much unnatural movement to be safe, stopped after 15 seconds.
2. Knees on platform,forearms on the floor, backside slightly risen – 14hz. Destabilization of the core through the hip flexes, Hips got tired and abs started to in-gage after 1 min, Much better position.
Unfortunately people have been selling pivotal machines with no descent safety programs attached, I do not sell pivotal machines but have been running a studio for 3 years with both pivotal and lineal machines and we only do, and recommend, 5 excercises on the pivotal.
1. 5 minute stand knees unlocked
2. basic squat
3. press up elbows unlocked
4. tricep dip with backside on the front of the machine
5. wide squat
Yes the hip flexors get a good workout, but as they get stronger it will move into the abs even more.
Similar to lifting your knees in a sprint this action is being applied to body parts designed to take the knocking around. Lifting your hips takes the pressure out of the lower back.
Safe , effective , designed for the majority user.
( even better when 8 sec delay on timer becomes standard )
I understand alot of people hold Galileo’s training programs in high esteem, but I think they suffer from the same academic overload as some other Lineal companies.
If someone can think it up , it should be done, zero consideration is given to the users experience and willingness to repeat the program.
As long as they refuse to apply simple principles and programs that the consumer wants to follow, no amount of ” but our Physio does it” will change people minds.
Murray…..
You are not quite understanding the problem. You ask why Robyn thinks its unsafe. It feels uncomfortable, that is enough.
A classic example….
Why did I design my machines to be set at 3 mm not 4mm like Vibro-Gym. Simply because enough people complained 2mm was too light and 4mm was too rough. No amount of correct positioning changes that. No amount of saying that 4mm is well tested and it wont hurt you changed their mind.
And boy did I get abused by the academics and industry for releasing my 3 mm machine and these other changes as well..
(1) Safety program
(2) Safety Mat system
(3) 8 sec Delay on timer
(4) Rounded hull/ 45 Degree angle front
(5) Vibration handle bars
(6) Much larger plate
(7) Non-Friction carpet
(8) Partial bio-mechanics
(9) Full Fq range but set at 43 hz ( that combined with the 3mm caused a real shit storm )
My prediction is all the above will become standard in time and some of them already are. But none of it would have been done if I had listened to the “experts” who all see no reason for change. They all had “tests and experience” to back up their position.
As I have said before , we are where the science meets the road, and we have to account for alot more than just if it is safe. We have to be a damn sight smarter than that.
There is an old saying…
” If you aim to be as good as your teacher, you are not aiming high enough “
Hey Mike, Please explain the Tricep Dip in more detail. What position for arms – Do shoulders & elbows have to be retracted or can they be more neutral with elbows to side rather than forced back?
I’m going to try out a HyperVibe machine and I haven’t fully recovered from shoulder injury (painful as I’ve overdone rehab). I want to reduce stress on right rotator cuff. I guess the shape of the front of the platform will dictate position to some degree.
I tried Lloyd’s Safety Pivotal Abs position for less than a minute on a low to ground, very low amplitude PulseTrainer machine. Definitely felt it in abs and I’d be happy to do that position as part of a workout.
Can I replace the PushUp with a kneeling lateral stretch, hands on machine with arms straight or with arms bent? Any suggestions pls
Di Heap, Here is the info you you asked for. I purchased the Hypergravity Personal Trianer for my home. They were local to southern california and have been very helpful to me with set-up and installation. It is a well built unit and very solid which helps because of my size. I am 6’2″ 270lbs. I use the lowest setting to start for 2-3 minutes before moving to higher settings which has increased my motion on my back to almost 100 percent. I admit I probably am agressive about my rehab but feel that the vib therapy is the only reason I can walk normally today. Just stand used to be painful but the Personal machine used 10-15 minutes 4-5 times a day using the excercises recommended by my therapist and other people I trust. I know to change the rotation of exercises but feel stiffness in my neck at end of day.
My point of this was, I trust that when I visit a physiotherapist, that they will not suggest I do something that is considered as unsafe.
As mentioned, certainly some positions are not for everyone, this could be said for almost every position dependent on the user and their ability, health conditions etc.
In my opinion the plank position can be performed safely, and from personal experience I know it is safe for me.
Just a few points to ponder Murray…
(1) Physios do not do Vibration Training as part of their curriculum, I am yet to meet one that truly understands the physics of Vibration. They all underestimate it and lack basic definitions to explain outcomes.
(2) You can tell none of these companies like Galileo ever expected their machines to be used anywhere other than at a supervised location. How ?
Because not a single one had a delay on the timer as standard, making some of their recommended positions impossible to do safely by yourself. This was not an oversight, they lack experience with the public so would never understand the importance of such a simple thing. You should really think hard about what that implies.
That alone should make you aware they are out of their depth trying to give advice to our market.
Robert….
“Personal machine used 10-15 minutes 4-5 times a day using the excercises recommended by my therapist and other people I trust”
Have you read none of our recommendation and cautions about overuse ?
Hi Di,
Nice to hear from you.
The tricep dip….
The same as you do at vibra-Train, only difference is you sit on the very front of the machine and lean back putting pressure through your hands. Do not tuck your elbows in have them pointed slightly outward in a relaxed state. My suggestion would be to aviod this one altogether with your injury untill you recover fully as the pivotal unit can be quite harsh on the joints not done properly. We DO NOT take our backside off the machine for this one, always sitting on the very edge.
Hope this helps.
P.s Congrates on your new job
Thanks for the Congratulations Mike
and now that you’ve “let the cat out of the bag” I’ll tell everyone:
I’m very excited to say that from next week I’ll be working for ** Vibra-Train **
The ultimate reward for being a loyal customer is being employed by the company. Lloyd trains up customers who show an real interest in Vibration Training and then later if an opening occurs he employs them.
I know we have the time limitation of 10 – 15 min. a day with 48 hrs in between sessions. But … lately I’ve been including about 5 min. with the hz in the massage area – helps bad arthritis in back – and for part of that I use the large half moon cushion Josh included for me – on back (crosswise to front of unit), leaning a bit back with legs supported on back of chair in front of me and with arms stretched out to sides. Soooo, can my time for training itself of 10 min. or more be added to this time since the massage settings don’t seem to effect much even though I do those on high.
Another question: can the size of the person allow for more time in training since the effects on smaller persons would seem to be greater from the start than for a taller;heavier person – like Robert mentioned?
And, in this latest current discussion, you have used the setting of 14 hz. Is this because you’ve been discussing a pivotal unit or one meant just for therapy? I ask because I didn’t think we were supposed to go below 20 hz.
Thanks
Kris…
(1) Massage is not included in the time restrictions. Its only the actual training on the muscles we account for.
(2) In theory larger people neede less training. Because they are heavier they recieve far more pressure due to increased mass x gravity than some one small.
Larger people will also find it harder most times.
(3) Yes we were only discussing Pivotal.
ok, an update on the upper body positions and the safe abdominal:
I decided to try using an old piece of foam that I found instead of the rubber backed mat I had been using for the arms, and it has made quite a difference. The cushioning effect allowed me to be more practical and move forward more as well, thus the head vibration is quite minimal now for the plank. The pushup is better also with the foam as it allows me to go up to a higher Hz with it in place.
Apart from a little elbow burn from the foam everything worked well!!
Maybe one of these high density rubber mats should be standard to come with these machines? Otherwise, people could be put of gaining the benefits of these upper body positions.
Lloyd, I tried out the safe abdo position, and yes, it is good. I managed to do it on 19 Hz without too much difficulty. I could not have done it without the foam for my knees, which have never been too good for kneeling due to out of position patellas, but somehow I managed to get into position and hold it. Maybe as my quads strengthen, the patella issue which has been there since childhood, will ease.
I agree that an 8 sec timer would be great however, without it, at least if you set it to be 15 or 30 secs between runs, you can let the first one run without using it and use the pause for getting into position.
I have only had the machine for 3 weeks and am enjoying it and benefiting immensely. However, even with such small use I can already see how things could be improved, with regard to design, and features generally for machines.
Only time will allow the glut on the market to calm down, and more publicity to the general public showing the importance of a machine that will do what is needed rather than a ‘dinky toy’ one.
Lloyd and Murray
I visited HyperVibe at Bondi Junction. Debbie spent two hours showing me the machines and talking about the programs and lineal machines and the industry overall.
I didnt do many positions on the machine due to shoulder pain and I being tired after a difficult flight but youve proven your machines to me. At 26hz, plus and minus 5, it felt smooth, a little like lineal and the vibrations could definitely be felt in quads, using a squat position, firstly shallow, then 110degrees. I also tried up on toes, leaning toward post/handgrips and only lasted about 30sec. I didnt do tricep dip except to show the position. It might be possible to do it in the Vibra-Train way as the front of the machine is smooth and hollowed. Lloyd needs to comment if this is okay using a higher fq.
I showed the modified plank that Lloyd explained and while it was too difficult for me as the platform is high from the ground so I’d have needed a layer of dense foam for my arms, it was okay for Debbie and might be useful.
Debbie showed me other positions and dynamic work which led into talk about the Safety program for Lineal machines. The extent of the pivotal program worries me a bit but in that studio with Debbie okay, just not for home use, although I realise more variation is given in the studio with pilates and core strengthening posutions added.
There was no aparent sideways movement but I’m wondering how the vibration targets the muscle girth rather than shaking and possibly tearing away of muscle at the high fq. Just asking as the legs muscles – calf etc look to be moving a lot.
I have some questions but will ask then some other time.Thanks so much to Debbie for giving her time. Shes amazing and hopes to visit Akld one day. Shed get along well with Lloyd in discussion; youd hear them miles away! Might visit again saturday.
Dense rubber or foam mats are needed for use on the plate of the HyperVibe machines. Murray I thought you supplied these as an extra. I suggest make them part of the box.
Hi Guys,
On the road and out of range as usual.
Thanks for all the feedback.
I definitely agree that certain accessories are beneficial for some positions.
We have had this on the cards for some time, however, just haven’t had the cashflow to go down that path.
If I wasn’t trying to compete on a weekly basis, against companies misrepresenting their product, maybe we would be in a position to do so.
There are other hurdles too. For example, we have always posted our DVD’s out seperately because our manufacturer is limited to the export of certain products, DVD’s is not one of them.
I know our manufacturer can supply me with some form of mat, but it doesn’t do the job.
I should also point out that our exercise guides and instructions all suggest using accessories. Particularly our new material which we have been working on since January (goes out to all clients nest week). We make reference to this constantly.
I will take all this feedback on board, and update our accessories page to suggest that while we do not stock accessories, clients should seek to buy these through sports stores or foam/rubber shops. This is what I usually do when asked via email.
Thanks for posting your experience Di, and I agree Debbie from Beach Body is great.
Probably the first time you have felt a high speed pivotal machine Di, there are not many of them around. I get a lot of comments about the similarities of the lineal machines, once we get the machine up into the higher frequencies. Lloyd, you may not enjoy the comparison, but I have had 3 different people tell me of the familiar feeling of using our machine who had previously been regulars at your vibra-train studio at Tweed Heads. One woman who reads this site, wanted us to post her testimonial stating just that.
I will be back to follow up, and give you my input on some other points when I arrive in NSW next week.
C ya’s..
Murray
An update. I have slightly sore quads (vastus lateralis to be specific) so obviously the Hypervibe at high fq has a different affect on the body than machines I use. My partner had sore lower calf muscles after doing lunge and one legged bridge. All okay just unexpected but we did go hard whereas a newbie would start much lower.
About the mats. Depending on shoes worn your feet slip about even in a basic squat and arms, hands, knees on machine is uncomfortable using a thick towel or regular foam. I don’t see the mat as an accessory and I think you’d have great feedback if you included a purpose built mat as part of the package. You would, of course, show its use on the DVD (or do you use a supplied DVD?) and in instructions.
Well, after nearly two weeks with my new machine, I am starting to have some opinions.
We purchased a Hypergravity Elite Pro. Very high quality machine. Josh was great to work with. I don’t have a long track record, but I offer an enthusiastic endorsement of the machine.
As for the workout…wow. On high at 43hz, that sucker will kick your tail. Period. Lloyd, we’re all wondering how you hold a Superman Squat, on high, for 2 minutes, at the end of a workout. Yikes. It will be many months before I am able to do a ‘full’ workout.
I was struck by something, and would welcome feedback from the more experienced here. While the workout produced a really good burn, and a degree of fatigue consistent with a heavy weightlifting workout, I experienced almost no soreness afterward. A tiny bit in my triceps, abs, and legs, but nothing remotely consistent with what I would expect for the degree of fatigue I felt during the workout and for 2-3 days following. Kinda spooky actually. Several people here at the office have used the machine and all have had similar experiences.
Beyond the ‘no soreness’ weirdness, everything is already tighter, and I’m daring to suggest, bigger. I would think that only 5 workouts wouldn’t yet manifest change, but it clearly is. Weight is unchanged, or perhaps up a bit, yet pants fit fine. More muscle already? Again, hard to justify, but unknown.
More to come in a few weeks.
Excellent Ted, thanks. I’ve read a lot on this site, but missed that one.
Yeah, I ended up on Hypergravity due to recommendations made here. Thanks!
BobO
Glad you are happy with your purchase and I am also looking to buy the same machine. I am wondering if you used any other machines before making your purchasing choice.
No James, I did not. There was nothing locally available to try, so I trusted the opinions of more experienced people.
Kinda crazy to drop $9k without more info, huh? I had a hunch and played it. It was a good move.
The Elite is well made and super stout. The remote control has a certain “Radio Shack experimenters box” quality, but works fine. The controls appear to be OTS, and not purpose built, but given the comparatively low volumes I’m not surprised. (Aside: My company designs and manufactures industrial electronics, so I am a little more picky on such things).
The low setting is strong enough to give me (@230 lbs) a good workout, and the high setting will dang near cripple you. The constantly variable speed setting (an analog knob) is a nice thing to have. If I had designed this machine, I personally would have digitally controlled it with 1Hz resolution, but it works great as is.
The fun part is sticking folks on it the first time, knees slightly bent (but not squatting), and sweeping the frequency from 20Hz-ish through 43Hz, and watching the “Oooh!” moment when the stretch reflex activates. Our informal sampling of 8 or 10 has been from about 32Hz to 35Hz, although a couple didn’t seem to notice it at all.
In spite of the very high energy, I haven’t noticed any rattles, although that might happen over time.
At 43Hz, the machine has got significant volume, but not offensive. At 60Hz, you fight the urge to duck and cover (it’s loud!), but other than seeing that it would go that high, we don’t work out there. I cranked it up once just to see my stretch reflex fade. It does.
For whatever reason, 43Hz is a pretty good number. I think you could take that up or down bit without much difference, but too high or too low and you won’t get as good of a workout, that seems pretty obvious.
The Elite has a range of 10Hz to 60Hz. On low amplitude, frequencies lower than 30Hz aren’t painful. On high, I believe they could hurt you pretty badly. With purpose built electronics, I would prevent use of low freqs on high amplitude, but I can see some value in low freqs with low amplitude. Caveat emptor.
I am absolutely convinced that after 5 workouts (#6 later today) I am already building muscle. I am up about 1.5-2lbs, but pants feel like I should be 5lbs lighter than I am. There is no doubt that muscles are already tighter. I have a long way to go, but I am very encouraged that this machine will take me there.
An odd thing is already occurring. The workout hurts like crazy, and yet I look forward to it. The 10 minutes of hell is oddly cathartic, and the rapid improvement makes it easy to remain motivated.
Biggest concern now is that this becomes an addiction. “Hi. My name is Bob. I’m a vibration addict. I’ve been still for 22.5 hours. Hi Bob…”
Bob,
For someone new to this, that is quite a thorough review. May I ask what population you are using this platform with (i.e studio vs. rehab facility)
Who are we? I am the president of a small company that designs and manufactures industrial automation products. The ‘test’ population is a bunch of us middle aged engineer types…geeks in need of a good workout with minimum time investment.
I have been interested in WBV since I saw references to Madonna a couple of years back, but not interested enough to plunk down the money to buy a machine. My interest was renewed when Stevie Nicks recently claimed to lose 60lbs for her 60th b-day by using WBV.
Did a bit of research and decided that I could justify getting a machine for the company. So far the response has been excellent from our employees and spouses. In fact I think I can sense the low freq rumble of the machine as I’m typing this. Need to run them off though, it’s time for my workout!
As for the thoroughness of my review…I’m an engi-nerd…I can’t help it. *grin*
BobO…
Bob just knows his stuff and can articulate it. A rare breed.
Great insight BobO, really useful information. You talk about “sweeping the frequency” I am right in thinking there isn’t any automatic facility (just turn the knob) to vary the frequency unlike the some other models in the HG range that have set program levels.
Lloyd in your opinion would these extra program features be desirable and would they offer the user an advantage once he/she became accustomed to vibration training?
Yes James, the frequency control is an analog dial with a frequency counter unit to show you what the current frequency actually is. I have found that control to be interesting for demonstrating where the stretch reflex activates, and for subtly adjusting the natural resonances that occur in the machine and in your body.
One interesting observation about stretch reflex: We have a lady here who has battled MS, and although the treatment program has allowed her to substantially recover, her stretch reflex behavior was substantially different than others. Where most activate by 35hz, and continue to intensify through 40-45hz, hers didn’t really begin to activate until 42-43hz, and even then only in one leg.
Have any of you trainer types seen that before? In a case like that would you recommend a higher target frequency, say 50hz or so, to ensure good activation?
JamesW…
Yes having random Fq changes during the pose is a good way to keep the muscles confused, which is always a good thing to a degree. But the Hg system is a bit too random for my liking and does not show “understanding” in how that actually works.
I will be releasing more work on that in the future. But in the mean time, if you have it, use it when you start to plateau.
BobO…
All my machines are set at 43Hz and have been since 2005. They can range from 1-60hz but I limit the function.
Yes there is something special about 43hz. And it is not just one thing. Everything “comes together” at that Fq.
I had a huge fight with the rest of the industry when I released that figure, and without anyone to be able to even converse about it that could ” understand” what I was trying to do, I just asked people to trust me, I always knew it would take years before that Fq would be vindicated.
Note: Even though it is important, because it allows things to come together, it is still only 1 thing out of 9 that make the difference in a basic platform and its effects. Just like amplitude, it only plays its part.
Makes me very curious… unfortunately, my HG 360 goes in 5hz increments. 40hz, 45hz… no 43
I am quite sure it is frustrating when someone does that to the electronics. Mine slid easily through 0.1hz increments if you want to look into the control box through a slit at the Fq inverter.
Kinda cool bit kinda useless at the same time.
You are not missing out on too much Cesar so dont sweat it.
Could anyone recommend a unit purchasable in the US for under $750 that would be suitable for vibration therapy. I suffered a long term injury to my hamstring and nerves three years ago through extended sitting without standing to stretch. My leg muscles are weak and very tender to siting at this point. My friend, who will also be using the machine is a 63 year old man with congestive heart failure that has greatly weakened him. His legs retain fluid and he has great difficulty walking. Thanks for any thoughts.
Hi Jordan,
I understand how frustrating it can be to find a quality machine at an affordable price, I have spent a bit of time looking for you but a decent pivotal unit staying away from tri-planars and low energy machines that will fall apart on you after a few sessions in Canada or the States are going to run in the 1800+ range then take into account for most shipping and your going to run into the 2k+. In that range more options will open up. See if you can find a manufacturer that provides perhaps a payment plan.
You will be sorry if you spend 750 and find the machine breaks or does not provide desired results and if you don’t get completely frustrated with the experience you’ll be bucking up for a decent machine again.
Nothing in it for me, but Murray at Hypervibe has been very helpful and they have affordable quality built pivotal machines that are not too far out of range of your budget, click the sponsor link and have a look or send him a note. Let him know you were referred by this site. For used equipment do a search on Kijiji (Vibration Equipment) you may come accross used units closer to home that you may be able to try before you buy, negotiating is easier as well.
Best of Luck & happy Vibes!
Hi folks!
What a fabulous site! For a change I can actually believe what I read about WBV.
I haven’t yet purchased a machine, but I’m looking. Naturally I like to read about other people’s experiences, but I was a little confused by a new user’s statement that his doctor had recommended WBV for a kidney stone condition. I was under the impression that this type of therapy was contraindicated.
I’m wondering if anyone else has any thoughts or experiences in this area.
Thanks
Gary
Ted,
Thanks for the reply Ted. At least now I have some perspective on this subject. Your own experience was all I needed to hear!
Gary
New to vibration training, my gym had a Vibroboost unit installed a month or so ago (http://www.hipower-gym.com/en/vibratory-platforms/vibroboost/YV30) and I am addicted! Definitely seen a massive improvement in muscle bulk, weight loss, and over all well being. Never had any training on it however, other than the 3 sheets of paper pinned up in front of it showing some exercise routines, so thought I had better check it out online. Have read through this site and have one or two questions, would be grateful if someone could answer.
1. It would appear that lineal machines are the best, this unit is 3D, does that mean there is an increased risk of shear stress on joints?
2. I am clearly an over-user, I have a routine which includes two sets of each exercise but not to fatigue, would a single set to fatigue be better?
3. Is there an advantage to dynamic exercise? I do actaul squats, rather than hold the position, likewise with pushups, tricep dips, calf raises, and one or two I have invented for myself, is that recommended?
4. If static is better, where can I find out the best joint angles for the recommended poses? For example squats – what should the optimum knee joint angle be?
5. Is there an online source for training programs?
Probably many more questions and your site has answered a great many already! Thanks
chris
Check out the program here……
http://www.vibra-train.com/exercises-bullet.html
And the instructions here…
http://www.vibra-train.com/exercises-explained.html
All the rest of your questions are already answered in articles on here, just look for a title that suits….
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/all-articles-a-to-z
Chris
Looks like a china knock off of powerplate. only weighing 65kg its a light and fluffy thearepy device.
3D is another name for uncontrolled vibration = danger = shearing of the joints.
A high powered lineal will take you to fatigue in 60 seconds.
Dynamic defeats the purpose of vibration training, only used on light machines to make you feel like you have done something as the machine alone is not powerful enough to give a work out.
Vibration Training uses your involuntry reflex system for this to work you must be relaxed in a static posture, not moving. The correct posture puts you at precise angles to hit the girth of the muscle, and stop any shearing of the joints.
Online source below…
http://www.vibra-train.com/exercises-bullet.html
http://www.vibra-train.com/exercises-explained.html
BobO- common question and Lloyd wrote a nice article about lack of soreness here..
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2008/08/delayed-muscle-soreness-and-vibration-training
Glad you like your Machine.
Did you find Hypergravity through us?
Hey Gary,
I’m the one who wrote about the kidney stone recommendation. I had a 9mm x 6mm stone and it was lodged in my ureter. The doctors said there was no way it would pass naturally and I was scheduled for surgery. I continued training through this whole process which was about 6 months from diagnosis. Lucky for me the stone did pass naturally. Now I can’t say for certain that it was definitely VT that helped but it does make sense and seem like it could have….at any rate, I was glad I didn’t have to have surgery.