It is sure tempting to save a few bucks by buying a product that is mass produced and widely distributed, but, is it worth it?
If a consumer were to purchase a piece of equipment and use it occasionally in their home then the product may hold up for some time. However, If the consumer is serious about using the vibration trainer on a regular basis than he/she should consider the phrase ” you get what you pay for”.
This Power Plate Machine was used in a commercial setting for three weeks. The wear and tear is quite evident.
- The buttons started to cave in.
- The Anti- skid surface on the bottom plate was wearing off.
- The overall appearance of the machine looked old.
Of course this machine was used commercially and not in the home so accelerated wear and tear would be expected. However, this amount of damage was done in just three weeks. I imagine that under normal conditions ( the machine being used about once a day) this type of machine might last six months before it begins to exhibit similar damage.
In conclusion, we have all been tempted when making a purchase to save a few dollars and buy a mass produced product that in most cases has been advertised extensively, but we may need to stop and consider what we are actually getting for our money.
{ 164 comments… read them below or add one }
The fact a machine breaks is not the main concern , as all companies can have issues with quality at some stage. It is the unwillingness to face up to the probelem and fix it that gives our industry a bad name .
Power Plate did their best to cover up the issue of faulty products and even tried legal means to shut people up or accused them of mistreating the machines.
When the machines were also shown to not operate to full function by an engineer , they then accused people of tampering with the units.
No apology was ever given when it was found out the product was indeed so under-rated and of low quality they pulled the factory down.
I just can’t understand why companies such as Power Plate in this example behave this way? Don’t they realize that it will (in the long-term) be their undoing? I guess is just must be greed etc. in the short-term that overrides any long-term thinking. And to think about the total lack of ethics of these types of people – how they cover it up etc. – eventually it will come back and bite them.
I mentioned the article above on a thread under the golf section on the forum at http://www.coreperformance.com about Power Plate. Nobody at Athletes’ Performance (who runs coreperformance.com) will ever respond to any questions about Power Plate’s ethics. Is this because Athletes’Performance (who trains some of the top athletes in the world) and Power Plate are “partners?” It’s very hard to get any type of true objective information when you have an inherent conflict of interest about what is said. Yet, Athletes’ Performance has even put Power Plate in a new lay book on Golf that Mark Verstegen wrote. It really makes me wonder? And NOBODY answers anything! If there’s nothing to hide – why not answer?
You are right, some people will not be in this industry long term , they understand this and hence act accordingly. With the zero responsability we see from most marketers.
Those who partner with these people now , who will want our help or access to real sports units in the future will not get it. And I for one will be very public about why .
So dont worry , what goes around comes around.
They will be adding one person to answer questions about Power Plate on the forum at http://www.coreperformance.com according to Ace B who helps oversee the site. This should be interesting. At least Athletes’ Performance seems to be listening and trying to address these issues. You have to give them credit for that.
That is good news , but I suspect they will be saying “no comment” more often than anything else.
You start with a question as you are less threatening than me , and I will jump in.
I put up a question that goes right to the heart of the matter.
http://www.coreperformance.com/cpBoard/showthread.php?p=5744#post5744
Well done, Lloyd! Can´t wait to see their reply.
Yes, this is interesting. I can’t wait to see what Athletes’ Performance says about Power Plate on their site http://www.coreperformance.com in response to Lloyd’s question!
Still no reply. Business as usual.
Yes, it’s been a week now and we still haven’t heard a peep from Athletes’ Performance. According to Ace, one person in particular will be answering questions about Power Plate/vibration at http://www.coreperformance.com. I wonder who this “expert” is?
I’d like to see Lloyd answer the questions for Athletes’ Performance. Who do they have that knows more than he does? On old vibration threads that were shut down on this site Lloyd “busted” Athletes’ Performance personnel talking out out their rear ends about hormonal responses etc. As Lloyd correctly pointed out, the ONE study showing large increases in GH, incresed T, and decreased cortisol on athletic subjects was done by Bosco et al. on Nemes and not on Power Plate. I could go on….. Anyway, Athletes’ Performance closed the threads. But, other threads on Power Plate/vibration popped up. So, there must be people at http://www.coreperformance.com that are either interested in vibration or “smellled a rat” and started new threads. Neither Lloyd or myself started any of the vibration or Power Plate threads that have appeared at http://www.coreperformance.com (4 or 5 total) and these threads always seem to get a lot of views. Yet, Athletes’ Performance shut down two of them apparently to save face when Lloyd “busted” them!
I suspect they may do something similar with a “relaunch” of the site that they are planning. We’ll see. Is Athletes’ Performance the real deal or will they avoid touching this one again and keep conducting “business as usual?”
And its not like they can say its all in the past , Power Plate have just been caught , claiming their machines to be Class 1 medical devices , only one problem…..
Both KEMA and TUV the organizations responsable for such listings say a Vibration platform has to be a class 2A , class 1 is only for low risk medical device like plasters and bandages.
It is obvious Power Plate are bending the truth again to fool the consumer.
Truly earning the title as the most unethical company our industry has witnessed.
I am looking for a high quality professional WBV machine for my studio and am very confused about what to get . From i have read lineal machine’s are best made of steel . Can you please advise on the various company’s that produces quality goods and also do you feel accessories will be needed to benefit my clients
To help to understand what are your choices , we first need to know what you need. Please make sure you read the articles on what units do what so we are speaking the same terms.
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/beginners-guide-to-vibration-training
(1) You said Pro but then mentioned a studio , studios tend to go for commercail units now they are available.
(2) Do you need training or support or both ?
(3) Where are you ?
I can say that if you have decent units and programs your customers dont need accessories.
Hi , i have a yoga studio which is used by advanced yoga teachers , so maybe it is a commercial unit i need .
Yes i will need training and support .
I am i Penzance, Cornwall ,UK
Hi Elizabeth, Do drop me a line: nick@pineapple.la – we have developed a unit the size of a large yoga mat, that is strongly used by the Yoga community in Los Angeles.
Yes , Elizabeth,
Nicks advice is not just a sales pitch, they have units designed especially for Yoga/Pilates to be performed on, increasing the effectiveness of any pose . I personally think that his systems are under-utilized at present due to the lack of understanding and comparision to other products.
The commercial vibration training units are strictly for king exercise poses to fatigue.
Caution…
Some companies put people in Yoga poses for advertising purposes , but most are unsafe to do those actual poses on.
Hi Lloyd ,
Thanks’ for the advice . the will be doing yoga on the mat NOT on the machine , bodytone ,strength , building weak areas of the body is what is wanted also the cubby one’s want to reduce the fat, injury’s such as back , neck hip’s etc .
What made me so interested in these machine’s is meeting up with a friend who got all the above benefits doing king exercise poses over a 4 months period who now has a great practice and uses the machine to support her practice . She used a very expensive WVB made in China
There are only 2 proper retail commercail Vibration Training machines on the market at present. HyperGravity and Evolution ( new VibroGym which is to release soon we hope ), Mine is commercail but an overkill for your situation.
QualityVibes runs a business around the sale of the machine, initial training on site ,5 yrs warranty , 5 yrs Q&A backup , for a set fee built into the sale price. Which is the kind of deal I think will be big in the future for small businesses.
Note: The Chinese dont make these systems yet , so it was probably a “Pro” unit your friend has , they are building some larger units that look nice out of fibraglass but they are lacking the upper functions needed to run a business, for any length of time that is. More like big therapy pads really.
Hi Lloyd , Both Josh Hayon from Hypergravity and Nick Morris from Pineapple have got back to me and i will look into Evolution’s Vibrogym . QualityVibes in NZ sound great but are too far away for me in the UK . Do you know of any support and training in the UK ? . I have been reading all comments put on this site which i have found so informative . Thank you
I know VibroGym will give some training with the sale of its machines , but I dont know about ongoing support.
I spoke to Kevin-Barklay web last night and he sees the merit in it for businesses, so hopefully they start up the full package at some stage too.
Hi Elizabeth,
We are currently helping others in the UK and sending a trainer there very soon. If you wish you can contact me via Quality-Vibes web site for more details.
Regards
Mike
Hi Elizabeth
Don’t know when you are intending to move forward on this but I am hoping to get some Hypergravity machines imported into the UK (from Quality Vibes hopefully!) If I do you would be welcome to come and have a try of them. I am near Bedford (about 40 miles North of London) Have you tried the Vibrogyms? I had someone come out to give me a demo – they were very good but are expensive compared to Hypergravity and I have to say not nearly as sexy looking!!
If you girls get your heads together and do something at a similar time , you may find you can sqeeze Mike for a discount regarding the training fee. He will save on an air fair from N.Z. at least.
Just a thought.
Hi Phillippa,
I have just sent e-mail to Mike Hair ,when are you putting your order in .
Elizabeth
Great idea Lloyd ,THANKS
Hi Elizabeth Not sure yet – am hoping to to know by the end of the week – when are you looking at? Are we allowed to give out emails on this site?
As long as you dont mind , we dont mind.
Hi Phillippa,
I would like to order soon ,
my e-mail is yogafarm@yahoo.co.uk
There are now 9 simple rules for http://www.coreperformance.com. See the performance section of the forum for this thread started by Ace. I wonder why this wasn’t done a long time ago? Is it a way to avoid answering questions about vibration and/or Power Plate?
John………
Its too late , the cats out of the bag and people know the question has been asked. Because of their profile they will be in a awkward position when the bigger performance machines are released and they are not involved.
I of course will be quite vocal as to why they are shut out.
Well, it’s over three weeks since Lloyd’s post on http://www.coreperformance.com on the golf section about Power Plate. We have yet to hear a “peep” out of Athletes’ Performance.
You should be ashamed for misrepresenting the truth when in fact you’re simply trying to market your own machine by taking shots at other equipment. I’ve seen multiple examples of Power Plates in commercial settings with far less wear and tear after five years of use!!! It is not possible to create that wear and tear in 3 weeks, even if it was used 24 hours a day.
If you want some feedback on golf and Power Plate, why not talk with Titleist Performance Institute who uses the equipment, and is actually doing research with it?
Again, facts and performance speak for themselves, and those who use this equipment know the truth.
Yes,facts do speak for themselves. It’s a fact that Athletes’ Performance personnel were shamelessly promoting Power Plate and misrepresenting facts on two threads that were shut down on http://www.coreperformance.com. Is talking about hormonal responses such as increased GH, T, and decreased cortisol from ONE STUDY by Bosco et al. that was done on NEMES (and not Power Plate) – and giving people the impression that it was done on Power Plate factual? Is using the name of Dr. Marco Cardinale in 2007 as a scientist on an advisory board for Power Plate ethical when Cardinale doesn’t have anything to do with Power Plate? I could go on and on…..
And why won’t Athletes’ Performance answer Lloyd’s questions on the forum at http://www.coreperformance.com? What’s to hide? Lloyd has stated Power Plate has tried to sue him (unsuccessfully) because he speaks the TRUTH. Where is the response from Power Plate and Athletes’ Performance? If Lloyd is a crock, you’d sure think they’d jump on the opportunity they have right now by responding to his questions. And “no response!”
I am now in a position to compare Power Plate and VibroGym, so I know the truth. Whoa! Big difference! Out goes the plastic one!
Dawn, you need to read the other articles and replies about PowerPlate. They have admitted to lying about the place of manufacture and the componentry of their machines. And there’s much more!
I’ve tried their machines twice and then others to compare. I really didn’t like them. Later I looked into buying a PowerPlate branded business (and was going to immediately add in some other brand machines), decided not to for various reasons, one being that the machines and the program that was being used were way below the standards I’d become accustomed to just as a regular user of Vibration machines.
Dawn…
I am PROUD I turned down their money to keep quite , where others opened their palms , so it is not me who should be ashamed.
Those photos are real and testomony from another Power Plate employee was used to back it up . I can also get you in touch with Jakob the employee who had to fix all the machines as well if you really want.
But I suspect you do not want to know the truth about Power Plate as it will only make you feel bad for promoting them.
Dawn….
Since you obviously are on the side of the truth , answer this simple question.
Do you think Power plate are honest ?
If you say yes , and we manage to prove on here they are not, will you change your mind ?
A perfect example of misleading statements made by Power Plate staff.
Dawn states in her own words….
“Ive seen multiple examples of Power Plates in commercial settings with far less wear and tear after five years of use!!!”
The Chinese machines that fall apart were not released until mid 2004. So the machines she mentions must be the older steel European made Power Plate/VibroGym.
Just like the awards , endorsements , research , engineering tests etc… Power Plate love to pass forward other machines good reputations to their bad machine.
Can you spell UNETHICAL Dawn ?
“However, this amount of damage was done in just three weeks. ( the machine being used about once a day)” -Lloyd
Lloyd,
I’m just an impartial onlooker that knows enough about this to realize that you have a personal issue with Power Plate and that is between you and them…but if we agree with the quote above, then you’re saying that a Power Plate should/could only last you 3 weeks’ worth of being used once a day so about 21 sessions…?? Lol…come on buddy. Let’s be real. I have seen those machines being used at my health club on a daily basis by many personal trainers and everyday users and do not show any wear and tear. This is after all supposed to be an impartial website, right? I think articles like this actually take away from the value that this website might provide to those looking to know a little more about vibration machines.
Oh, and spare me the Power Plate hating replies…I really dont care. I’m just adding a little balance with some simple facts.
Fred, ok accepting what you say is the truth, no reason to doubt your personal experiences regarding the machines.
What balance do you have to add regarding Power Plates unethical and downright dishonest business practices, both historical,ongoing and proven in courts of law.
Fred….
Important note: These machines were the guts of some peoples businesses , not something to the side to make extra cash with.
I am sure they have fixed some issues with quality since then , and since all products can have quality issues , thats not the big deal . So I dont doubt what you have witnessed .
But think about this…
(1) They sent them out to businesses suspecting them to be faulty after an initial meeting with me their own Product Manager to tell them they were not of commercial standard. Even the General Manager would not use them herself. They choose to sell them anyway.
(2) Putting them on the floor of multiple working studios ( some I had nothing to do with ) was a chance for them to prove me wrong. It backfired on them badly. Even their own studio had problems. They blamed the customers , the trainers , everybody but themselves.
(3) We had customers not wanting to get on those machines because they think they risked an electric shock. Luckily for me I had other quality units to rely on. Other were not so fortunate.
(4) Fact: Power Plate was willing to risk someones elses business through greed of a sale .
(5) It has taken them 4 years to admit fault.
How can you possably think that is Ok.
Answer , I dont think you do. Because no rational business person would.
Probably important to note , during this time they were also lying to the public about what country the machines were being made. We got told to tell customers Switzerland or Belgium instead of China.
They also tried to swap $60,000 of pre-paid steel European machines to Chinese plastic ones , against the cusomers wishes. She had to get lawyers involved to obtain the machines she had viewed and purchased.
This will all be documented on my new website , with its own standalone page, along with other practices Power Plate have found acceptable over the last 4 years .
It makes for great reading and the kind of site that I predict will be used as a link quite often , especially by their competition.
My statement that I will see either Power Plate ….
a) Apologise for its past behaviour and negotiate a settlement for those effected by it unethical practices.
b) Dismantled globally.
This still stands. If you think I am joking , think again.
Oh and Fred, your comment…
“spare me the Power Plate hating replies”
If you love what they do you are sick.
I’m not sick Lloyd, thanks for the concern and more importantly I’m not here to defend anyone either so no need to get inspired and reply to yourself three times in one nite !?
Anyway, like I previosuly stated…the discussion on this specific forum about Power Plate’s ethics from the point of view of a competitor is not something that interests me due to the obvious conflict of interest, and also couldn’t you argue that posting direct attacks towards a competitor under an article that is supposedly posted to help the potential buyer be aware of the wear and tear of vibration equipment be considered as unethical in itself??…it sure is misleading…
(You never did reply to your claim that the worn out machine was only used 21 times? Hmmmm….surprisingly ignored)
So what I’m saying is every argument has a flaw and this website’s repeated attempts to draw the conversation back to a specific ethical discussion about another product, forces US potential customers and users to realize that this is nothing but another tired marketing ploy…so I’ll personally get my unbiased information elsewhere.
Best,
Fred
For a start , yes you did try to defend them , I do not believe you are a concerned consumer by pure chance jumping on here sticking up for Power Plate , just a salesperson getting jip for trying to sell a dodgy product from a dodgy company. Good luck with that. I can promise you its about to get alot harder.
Funny how you forget to mention 3 important things..
(1) Site Admin wrote that article , not me ( or maybe you have a reading impairment ). If you want to accuse admin of being biased then go ahead I dare you.
(2) The article does not mention the machine in the photo was used once a day , admin comments …
“I imagine that under normal conditions ( the machine being used about once a day) this type of machine might last six months before it begins to exhibit similar damage.”
So you comment is misleading or pointing towards that reading impairment again.
Now we get to your “conflict of interest” claim.
(3) I was Power Plates Product Manager when I first laid a complaint about the unethical behaviour I witnessed and was asked to partake in. Their was no competition.
I was planning a long term partnership with Power Plate until it became obvious they are not concerned with peoples health , only their own personal wealth at any cost.
They were very aware of my disapproval and told me I could do nothing about it as I was…..
” just a poor little Kiwi Man”
Vibra-Train was formed as a response to that situation.
It is actually a shame because they not only lost someone very loyal to the industry and willing to work hard but instead created an enemy .
This is well know and my “hidden agenda” is on my own website for the world to see .
Pity you have that reading problem , or you would know this.
Fred
After reading the article i thought it was strange that you accuse Lloyd of unethical behavior when it was posted by the site admin. I personally don’t think it is misleading, more like informative!
But dont you know Mike , it a big conspiracy against Power Plate.
It is not because the entire industry is ashamed of them or anything.
I have never asked this question before , and since Fred seems to be at least pro-active in offering his opinion without running away , which is better than most people can be bothered doing.
If I am telling the truth , what do you think I should do or more importantly , what would you do ? .
Fred is right about Lloyd´s personal issue. If it´s true Lloyd was fired from his work at Power Plate it´s only natural he want to smash them.
But, this personal issue is a problem if we are looking for facts in this matter. Because, if Power Plate began to behave like an honest and reliable company i do not think he would not admit this change.
And, as Fred is also right about Lloyd´s Vibra-Train company is a competitor in this industry whatever he say. 20 studios. 80.000 USD each.
Please Lloyd, cool down and put some more effort in your excellent work. There always going to be unethical companies out there. You can´t fight them all.
Earlier on this thread,I mentioned Athletes’ Performance and their interactive site for the public http://www.coreperformance.com. As stated earlier, both Lloyd and I have commented on this site on vibration/Power Plate. Two threads were closed but others popped up. Neither Lloyd or myself started any of the threads on that site (www.coreperformance.com) on vibration or Power Plate. Athletes’ Performance has not commented on Lloyd’s posts (the last two are on the Power Plate thread on the golf section of the forum) in spite of Ace (who helps run the site) saying questions would be answered.
Athletes’ Performance is launching a new site http://www.coreperformancecenter.com shortly. It’s already up. Power Plate is one of the sponsors. On the very bottom of the page is a section to click on titled “sponsors.” This section says you can judge people “by the company you keep.” Any comments about this?
While Lloyd appears quite upset with Power Plate and their dealings, have we become so “politically correct” that you can’t even report or talk about unethical behavior? It seems to me that the people doing wrong almost seem to have more rights than honest people. And I’m not just talking about the vibration industry but society as a whole (at least in the US).
That’s a value of this site in my view. It enables discussion about issues. There’s something called “freedom of speech.” It’s not the same as “stifling speech” or concerns about ethical practices which can be done by companies and organizations to promote their agenda (and fill their bank accounts).
Hi Llyod,
First, what you have started here is absolutely fantastic. Wish I had heard about you prior to my involvement in the WBV industry.
Here in Canada, WBV is taking off like crazy, there are so many machines and so many companies copying the marketing from one machine and placing it on there’s that it is absolutely out of control.
I purchased 4 Vibrogym Professionals about 6 months ago via the Canadian Distributor at that time, as it turns out the distributor was/is as crooked as they come and during the process Vibrogym turfed the distributor leaving any canadians who supported Vibrogym with little to no support in the canadian market. (funny thing is the individual is now a distributor for DKN Tech, I’ll be steering way clear of them altogether.)
What is your honest no holds barred opinion on the Vibrogym “Professional” model? Have we wasted our money? (I initially wanted the EVO but it was not available at the time.) What would you recommend? Should we try to make a go of it with only the Vibrogyms considering they have useful applications in both Therapy and Fitness or should we consider taking on a pivotal unit and a Hypergravity to better diversify our ability to assist in fitness/strength training?
Studio is doing well and is a diversified business that does not rely solely on the WBV aspect but also offers complimentary services as well.
Your advice is greatly appreciated, if I had come accross you 6mths ago we would be in business with you instead.
Best Regards,
Steven, that is pathetic and weak, to say Lloyd or anyone shouldn’t fight against unethical companies. Your attitude is why unethical and dishonest companies such as Power Plate get away with what they do, ripping off and endangering the consumer and the industry as a whole.
Lloyds actions against Power Plate are not because he was sacked by them. Its thier historical and ongoing behaviour.
And if you bothered to really find out what was going on, Lloyd Shaw actively promotes and assists opposition to Vibra-Train. Just not with unethical scumbags
Lloyd,
I appreciate the question, although I doubt its honesty. But that’s fine, I’ll play…
What would i do? Damn Lloyd, focus on your craft my friend. You have enough people on here that even though your reasearch page on your website is blank and kindly tells us to google ‘vibration reasearch’ they’re still here batting for you, even though i dont doubt that some of them might have a commercial or business tie to you or your product which brings us back to my main point…Conflict of Interest. A conversation with you, can in no doubt benefit me or anyone else looking to know more about the science and potential benefits but that’s as long as your past employer’s name is not part of the conversation. That’s when you lose me. Because if anyone here googles the claims that some of your studios make about folks burning 1000 calories in one session, they’ll see that ethical concerns and questionable claims are a direct derivative of size and scope. For every one of your machines they’re moving 50? 100? So the conversations your having and the problems that arise are not even on the same playing field as theirs. So all in all, from here on, every post of yours that includes their name or a reference to them will be viewed from a different light by those here that are not affiliated to you or your product. I do wish I could try your machines though, if it works it works…I’ve tried the the Power Plate and done some things and i personally like it.
Now don’t go breaking your keyboard trying to reply ten times…not needed.
Fred
I am convinced it is a good thing to fight against unethical behavior in business, but why should people (who really need unbiased information) trust the words from yet another competitor in the business?
If PP sell such a poor product, why is they not out of business by now? They must have been done something right. We have to admit they are pretty smart if they (after 10 years in business)making a fortune on bad products.
A lot of people are buying the machines. Are they satisfied with the product, servcices and guaranties?
As long as the customers need is fulfilled by a company they are on the right track.
So, where is the voices from all this not satisfied customers on this blog? There have to be a lot of them out there.
So Steven, what you are saying is that because a company sells a lot of product, regardless of thier quality and ethics then they are smart. Dear oh dear pity the poor consumer.
In the interests of openess and honesty, I own a Vibra-Train studio, previous to that I imported Vibro-Gyms into New Zealand.
I do have a vested interest in the industry.
What is your response to my earlier statement that Lloyd Shaw actively promotes and supports opposition to Vibra-Train.
Power Plate is not the only company that is being attacked here. Do you have a vested interest in Power Plate?
First I will be blunt about the situation and motives…
(a) I walked out of Power Plate , I have court documents to prove this as it was one of Power Plates complainst against me. That I left them without a Product Manager with no notice.
(b) Power Plate is basically owned by a marketing company , they shift product at any cost , thats their sole task. How do Power Plate do it ?
They use the reputation of other good machines, companies , celebrities , researchers and even Doctors that have nothing to do with Power Plate.
In N.Z. we were told to say Power Plate is the only manafacturor of machines in the world, so all positive reports come from us.
(c) Why do I do this , simple.
I believe the public outing and sinking of Power Plate will make all the other companies heavily involved in unethicsal practices think twice.
Some may believe I should turn a blind eye and concentrate on my own personal wealth, but here is the thing , if I did that I would work hard only to end up in an industry I was ashamed of.
If Power Plate went straight…?
Their lawyers have been given an offer , that I will stop if they help me show the rest of the industry through a public statement what they have done is unacceptable .
I will post a copy of the letter on here.
Dan….
The Vibro-Gym Pro are excellent units.
Sorry about your experience with the distributor. The head company unfortunatly made bad choices in a few countries I think mainly through fear of being out marketed by Power Plate.
They are far more confident now in their own abilities.
Dan….
If you have any problems , contact me. I will get it sorted for you one way or another.
This letter was sent to Mark Minters ( International President ) lawyer in response to a letter I received from them admitting replicas were released under the Power Plate label . I used a statement from one of their own sales managers admitting wrongdoing to get their attention.
To whom it may concern,
refering to the matter of PowerPlate machines produced and sold that were knowingly not performing to spec the questions I will raise and continue to raise publically is not a management issue, it is if any machines during this period were marketed directly to people with disabilities, and if so why no-one was informed and no machines recalled.
The statement I quoted was from a PowerPlate staffs e-mail sent to explain the issue.
I may or may not be right is assuming the public will care but from recent past events would suggest ( aka Ribena ) , passing the buck will do PowerPlate no good. Goodwill and Badwill is in fact created from a companies past actions.
Please note my only concern is for this to never happen again and I want a public message sent to others in the industry this will not be tolerated. Mark has a chance here to help the industry create some standards that could in fact give his company an image no marketing campaign could produce.
If done properly this could “make” PowerPlates reputation instead of dragging it down.
I hope to hear from Mark soon.
Kind regards Lloyd Shaw
I believe that is a fair call , dont you Fred ?
Lloyd,
Correct me if I’m wrong but what you posted was a letter YOU wrote to whoever’s lawyer @ Power Plate, right? How is that any different from whatever postings you’ve written on this forum? It doesn’t really serve a logical purpose. You’re saying it was in response to an email from them admitting fault but that email or letter wasn’t posted. So in summary, although a nice letter from you, it doesn’t prove anything. And accordind to your posting earlier you’ve agreed that they have most likely, since ur ‘separation’ from them, improved on the quality of their equipment. So admittedly your info on the inner workings with them is not the most up to date.
On another note, is your equipment available in the states? I travel a lot…I can try yours out. I’d love to see if your good rhetoric translates into good equipment. And don’t give me a long speech on ethics and why you wouldn’t sell it. I’ve heard it already…just a no or a yes and where would suffice.
Your pal,
Fred
My point was this, I am not unreasonable and I am not waging an unreasonable war against Power Plate through blind hate , as you seem to think.
I am looking for a way to make something positive out of a bad situation.
Your comment….
“your info on the inner workings with them is not the most up to date.”
I think you need to read up some more. As John Weatherly has stated we have documented dozens of ongoing ethical and dishonesty issues with Power Plate right up to last month , it is a team effort. Trust us they have not changed a bit.
If you think we are all liars and Power Plate are actually innocent then say so.
My units…
Are not in the U.S. yet. They will be found in Vibra-Train studios when they are , you will be welcome do a trial then.
KG….
If you are out there , we need you , Fred is in the same place you were a few years ago.
Fred, can I ask you a simple question, yes or no will suffice?
Do you beleive Power Plate has been guilty of unethical business practices?
I dont think you understand Wayne , Fred clearly stands in the “hear no evil see no evil” catagorie of people.
His advice to me was….
” What would i do? Damn Lloyd, focus on your craft my friend”
Just the kind of person who watches something bad happen while pretending to not notice , as long as he was making money , he dont care.
I will tell you one thing Fred , I will never be a coward and turn away from doing the right thing if I can.
I will continue to work as a mortician, design machines , build Vibra-Train to be the biggest commercial studio system in the world , form the IVTRB , help other companies succeed..
……..and kick Power Plates ass in my spare time.
KG! We don’t need you. Sorry for the false alarm…
Lloyd,
I appreciate you trying to get the band back together for me but this benevolent cloak of self-righteousness that you’ve adopted here doesn’t do enough to cover up the fact that what you really are is a fair enough marketer and sales person that finds benefit in knocking an industry leader and disguising it as advice for the advancement of your personal vibration device, and as you’ve ‘eloquently’ said before in a conversation with Sal Marinello (a fitness expert who wrote an article in direct opposition to your product.-google it folks!!-) “My thoeries are my theories” -Lloyd Shaw. Being that perception is reality, here on this forum you’ve surrounded yourself with business partners and employees that do nothing but support your “theories” and bc of self interest make them realities… All this equals out to one thing…You losing credibility and as a result turning impartial potential buyers on to other sites to get unbiased info.
Cheers and be healthy,
Fred
My articles are unbiased and give good solid advice to the consumer , if you didnt have that reading disorder you could appreciate them , maybe thats why you concentrated on the one with pictures that wasnt written by me ?
Anyway I will change the industry through being relentless in my endeavour to have the best industry we can have. RELENTLESS being the operative word.
As for your opinion…
It worth as much as anyone else who finds selling machines that dont work as advertised to the disabled as acceptable business practice.
Good on ya.
Oh Lloyd,
That reply was a bit disappointing. None of my actual points were addressed by it. Instead you retreated to an infantile attempt to correlate a reading disorder that you made up that might actually be contagious because obviously you yourself have acquired it…earlier in this thread I commended your knowledge and assistance with other questions but either it’s that dreaded reading disfunction or you have realized that this site’s attempt to say a product broke down after 3 weeks is unreasonable. That is after all @ the heart of the matter. But you and your group have failed to admit that that is just not logical. So be ‘relentless’ Lloyd, just don’t be blind to the fact that the ‘ethics’ problem you love bringing up might actually have snuck up on YOU just like the reading problem.
We’ll end with this and I hope to see a little more integrity in your future postings.
Good luck,
Fred
The machine did break down in 3 weeks. That is the truth. I have photos and witnesses to prove it. Or Power Plate would be on me in a flash and you know it. Instead they will take whatever I dish out.
Your entire arguement rested on that I said it was only used 21 times , a claim you have not corrected.
So I only assumed you had a reading impairment as it was more polite than calling you stupid and lazy.
Sorry next time I will be more direct to avoid confusion.
I would like to add for any consumers reading this an explaination on how a product can break down so quickly , since my integrity has been questioned.
Keep in mind that vibration can fatigue material very quickly if built incorrectly.
The unit in the photo was actually used about 15 times a day for about 15 mins per session. As you can see from the photo it is the 50Hz botton that suffered the most damage as it was running at 50hz most of the time.
15 x 15 = 225 mins per day
50hz x 60sec = 3000 vibrations per min.
3000 x 225 = 75,000 vibrations per day
75,000 x 21 days = 1,575,000
I do not believe it is a stretch to imagine that over 1 and Half million vibrations could effect a badly made product.
Sorry that was meant to be….
675,000 x 21 days = over 14 million vibrations.
You’re very informed about what allegedly happened to this machine, and what was intended to be said in the article for someone who didn’t write it. !?!? Or did you? Hmmmm, stupidity and lack of good reading comprenhension. Maybe you were talking about your conditions. Tripped yourself up again. As you lose credibility, you also lose eloquence and your arguments lose focus. I think we’ve all heard enough. Take care Mr. Saleman.
Fred
Thanks Lloyd, I thought my maths had gone wrong.
This machine was used about 300 times – it seems Fred does have a reading comprehension problem.
Obviously it’s not what you would call a True Commercial product! It might have been okay in someone’s home for a year but it hasn’t withstood the demands of Studio use.
Can you please tell me why the antiskid platform looks so bad? Was the unit in a area where the people had to walk through chemical waste to get to the studio? Looking at the pics makes me think even more about how Owners (Commercial and home users) must get some sort of written guarantee with their product and also make sure they deal with a reputable company with a board who will back them up.
That machine was in my studio along with VibroGyms and BodyShakers for a trial , which is something you would know if you did any homework at all or learned to ask direct questions. It is no secret.
The pictures were sent in by me , like the articles I write , it is admins decision what gets printed , anyone can send something in. Again something you should already know.
We dont mind you asking questions , as that is what this site is for , but to only jump on here to accuse us of lying while jointly doing no research is impolite and lazy.
Get a clue and come back.
I would also like to add that writing off what we do as anti-competitive is not fair and simply not true.
I will continue to support ALL companies doing the right thing , be it they my competition or not. The reader may think this is hard to do as it would be tempting to use my articles to prop up my own company. But a few things should be noted…
(a) I do not sell machines to just anyone , which should clearly indicate I am not into sales at any cost.
(b) I constantly do what is right for my industry as a whole. I do not operate out of fear instead I believe I am good enough at this I can relax and have some fun.
(c) Not one of my articles mention my company or product.
(d) And last but not least , Email my competition with good reputations to see what they think of me.
‘Go get a clue and come back’ !? Haha…You can end your posts as aggresively as you’d like but you don’t impress anyone here (who doesn’t work with you or for you that is) You and your lies are making a mockery of this thread.
Earlier you asked why I questioned you about the content of the article and you claimed the the site administrator was the one who posted it, but now you say that those machines were in fact at your studio and that you sent the pictures in. A clear contadiction.
It shouldn’t be this easy to tear your points apart. You are a farce and not worth the time of those of us not looking for jaded, seller-inspired posts.
Firstly…..
I have written dozens of articles and submitted them , other people have written material as well , look under the title heading to see the authors name.
Sometimes I just send in evidence and they write the article , as in this case. As the site admin has no connection to the industry at all , any information on here has to come from the readers.
If you have a problem with that complain to admin not me. I am not your boyfriend/girlfriend or mother or who ever you usually whinge too about how unfair life is.
Secondly….
Could those of you who comment on this site put up your name and connection to the industry so our man Fred here can see how diverse a readership this forum has.
Hopefully him and others like him will see the reality of the situation, this is no conspiracy but instead a wide range of laypeople and experts putting their foot down on issues of ethics.
And a request for Fred……
Please put up a link to the website you are now going to read the latest articles on with its attached forum so we can all visit and ask questions .
My guess is you come on here because you like the articles and you can have your say if you want.
Something you know Power Plate would never let you or us do. We disagree on some issues , but I know you appreciate that.
Lloyd´s studios still claim “1000 calories burned in one session” This statement is obviously not true and furthermoore it is unetchical to declare such a promise.
Lloyd, what do you going to do about it?
Okay here goes: My connection to Lloyd. I’d seen adverts for various Vibration Training Studios and devices for over a year when I stood (with my partner) outside Lloyd’s Vibra-Train studio and looked in in Jan 07. Lloyd invited us in, gave us a no obligation completely free trial. It all felt so weird but I really wanted to know Could this help me? I had injuries plus I needed increased fitness. I googled and asked everyone, read any books and brochures I could find and then returned to use Lloyd’s machines and drive him to despair with my questiions, how, what, who, I don’t understand! I was doing a sports course and Lloyd very reluctantly helped me – reluctantly in that he made me do all the thinking but I think he actually enjoyed passing on knowledge.. and this wasn’t just about vibration training. He is a very giving person who will answer questions – with a bit of an answer, just enough to send you looking for more and figuring it out for yourself.
He also told me his aims for vibration training and wow, I was a believer. Although Lloyd’s attitude can seem “cutting” as he doesn’t tolerate fools and also sometimes he seems a little intolerant of we, less than super intelligent folk, he is totally altruistic in his reasoning for his business and vibration training in general.
I hoped to buy in to his licence or to work for him as he spent a lot of time training me (and I am slow to learn as I ask way too many questions) but this didn’t happen and so I looked at buying an opposing brand (less costs), knowing that Lloyd would help me get it up to standard even if it meant loaning or leasing me some (not his brand) machines. Problems with the business I looked at meant I didn’t proceed.
So where does that leave me? What is my link to Lloyd?
This year I am just a customer of Vibra-Train. A very thankful customer as Lloyd’s designed machines cured a nerve pain problem I had that gave me continual low grade pain and thus affected my overall health and moods. I strongly believe in the good of this industry and I’ve written articles to promote the industry (not specifically Vibra-Train). I work in a gym but change of owner this month means I have no idea if I’ll have a job next month and it’s looking unlikely due to a massive change of focus. I still want to work/or own in the Vibration Training industry but finances prevent me.
I am an inquisitive person so I have tried to find Lloyd wrong on many issues. I’ve googled, I’ve asked Personal Trainers and others. In the end Lloyd is either correct or the statement he made is too advanvced for proof. I’m going to keep backing Lloyd all the way. Time has proven him reputable. But I still ask questions, I still research for myself, that’s just how I am, always eating “humble pie” or having to “take my foot out of my mouth” after talking out of ignorance.
Steven , please direct me to the advert.
Thanks Di but we didnt need a life story. Just the basic connection.
Fred, Lloyd doesn’t sell machines. He operates out of licenced studios and similar. You can’t have one of his machines in your home – I’d like to but he wont sell one to me (or to anyone) for home use. He will help people by giving them his program, on his website, free, and sometimes guide people buying home machines. He certainly doesn’t need me to defend him but I’m doing that because he is ethical and I owe him a lot – yes I paid for a service/use of machine and trainer – but above that he gives help and understanding to all who ask including the owners of totally opposing machine Studios. Powerplate isn’t the only baddy in this industry.. but.. it is the one with the big budget advertising that deceives the public.
oops, apologises Lloyd but I get a little tired of people thinking I am just a stooge, encouraged by you to agree with you.. as you and I both know, this is not true. I owe you heaps, of gratitude, and I’ve yet to prove you wrong in statements you’ve made and you know how inquisitive I am so do research.
If Fred you are refering to something 1 of my studios printed in 2005 it was in reference to my estimate of a theory it was possable to burn “up to 1000 cal” in 10mins of fight or flight.
And you guessed it a marketer took out the relevent words and abbreviated it because it sounded better.
They got their ass kicked and was eventally fired for applying the same lazy attitude to other things. So something was done.
But I still stand by my original statement , just like I predicted weight loss with the units against “experts” saying different.
But you clearly say “still” so it must be a recent case you are mentioning. Right ?
Steven..
I am serious , if you could tell me where the advert is I can sort it out. With studios around N.Z. and Australia in charge of doing their own local ads it is something I always need to be on top of.
Thanks.
Steven, You are questioning the truth of being able to burn up to 1000 cal in 10mins of fight or flight or as you’ve said in one Vibration Training session.
“Experts” said you couldn’t build muscle with Vibration machines, also that they couldn’t help with weight loss – these “experts” have been proven wrong!
History is on Lloyd’s side and shows he’s a better expert than other fitness professionals when it comes to what Vibration Training can do (that is with proper specialised machines) so even though this is a theory and not proven at present, why would we doubt Lloyd?
If you know just a little about muscle, you know that having additional lean muscle increases calorie burn.. The future will hold the answer but I think Lloyd’s going to be proven right again.
Before you accuse me of suggesting you’ll need multiple sessions to grow muscle before you get the calorie burn remember that anything that increases the metobolic rate results in calorie burn and with vibration training this remains after exercising, into the next day so the effects are ongoing.
Yes it never fails to amaze me how the experts that were giving us hell 3 years ago in the paper have crawled back under their rocks now they have been exposed for the over-educated, couldnt think their way out of a plastic bag, prats they really are.
I have a list of statements that will be posted at some stage along with who said them , so the consumer can get a clear idea of what we were up against from day one.
Di,
To say: “Having additional lean muscle increases calorie burn” is something completely different from saying “burning calories during the session”
Don´t you agree?
If vibrationtraining can boost´s and forces the musclescells to work more efficient when you´re NOT training, it´s good enough, but don´t tell anyone they can burn energy during the session.
Lloyd,
I am relieved to hear it was just a rumour…or? Do you or do you not have your thumb in all your studio-owners eyes?
What if they come up with a revolutionary idea about vibrationtraing? Would you accept if they went on another lane than your own? Or, would you kick some a—-s?
Steven, Yes you are right about increased muscle being different to burning calories with muscle that you’ve already got. I’m still going to put my bet on Lloyd’s being right. Muscle movement/twitch is very rapid when using the machines so maybe many calories are being used up in the process. Muscle growth and strength plus the metabolic rate remaining increased are other pluses.
Lloyd
This faceless man comes onto the website with a name that might or might not be his own, making assumptions not supported by facts, no personal credentials in evidence, attacking someone who has been a revelation and a boon to the wbv industry and you actually give him his unmerited 5 mins of fame by lending credibility to what I see as his spurious uninformed comments.
All those serious about wbv and concerned about ethics and honesty know who you are and what you stand for. You have nothing to prove. After what Powerplate asked of you, you have every right to feel affronted for as long as you want.
For all we know (and this is not based on facts) he might just be some lonely individual sitting in front of his pc screen enjoying his anonymity whilst taking vicarious pleasure in attacking those more erudite and universally appreciated than he.
Of course the other option is that it could be Powerplate attacking you under another guise which seems more their speed.
Lloyd please do all us who want to learn more about wbv a great big favour and disregard the likes of this gentleman who appeared here under the guise of innocence and who has mutated to what we now see.
Lets keep the level of this forum at the heights it has achieved to date and guard against any lessening of the standard.
When bilious posts go unanswered (which will not affect anyone’s right to free speech)those posting them will soon move on to other more fertile and receptive pastures.
Oh, and just a small disclaimer, I’m in South Africa, don’t know Lloyd besides from what I read here, have nothing to do with Vibratrain, own a Hypergravity, have tried a Powerplate. Thank heavens I bought a Hypergravity.
I know I promised not to bring this subject up again but I’m afraid the urge can not be resisted. The house of pain was actually a house of pleasure for the Springboks even with 14 men. Oh joyful day.
Ha, ha that´s a good one “Keith”. Do you agree with that statement Lloyd, that you have nothing to prove?
Everyone in this industry has a lot to prove, i belive. Not only lloyd.
Steven
Sorry, I didn’t mean that he has nothing further to prove in terms of wbv science which is in its infancy but rather that his commitment to honesty, ethics and a clean industry leaves him with nothing to answer to in that regard.
Although his passionate pursuit of PP does at times leave one bemused one cannot but admire what he has achieved to date in bringing not only PP to book but also informing a whole wide world out there that all is not as it seems when it comes to wbv equipment.
Ok, here are some simple facts that are admittedly true.
-Article pops up saying that the machine was used for about three weeks, about once a day.
-I question Lloyd about the claim and if he really thinks that the vibration could potentially fatigue the material to that point in such a short time.
-Lloyd denies involvement and says that the Site Aministrator has posted it and can claim whatever they’d like.
-after some back and forth (through which Lloyd accuses me of reading disfunctions, throws a couple ‘stupid’ and ‘idiot’s’ my way, along with a ‘get a clue and come back’) Lloyd admits that the pictures actually came from his studio. Which contradicts with his initial response to my questions.
You all can read these and regardless of where and how they came about you can go back through the forum and verify that these are all facts. You make your own conclusions about whether or not the actions were shady or unethical.
I don’t know who folks like Steven and Keith are or what intentions or motives bring them here but mine was to point out a glaring contradiction of someone with a not so hidden agenda. The subject of business ethics has a lot of gray area and deciding who is and isn’t guilty is often subjective as it’s been clearly depicted here.
Good luck to you all, I sincerely hope that you help a ton of people and sell a load of machines.
Fred
Fred
I have no agendas hidden or otherwise. I am simply someone who found this site while looking for info on Wbv. I learnt a lot here which enabled me to make what I believed was a wise choice. That still holds true today. I believe one should learn to pick out the numerous pearls which are to be found here and not resort to meaningless name calling which is demeaning to the intention of this site.
Passions do run high sometimes but I believe we should make some allowance for the history behind those passions.
The people who comment here or browse this site can choose to take whatever they find of value and make their own judgement decisions regarding the rest.
I value and respect all I have met here for their unstinting assistance given without thought of recompense.
I have read the entire Marinello blog and was able to take nothing of value from it.
I believe you are sincere in your intentions and able to make meaningful contributions here and I for one look forward to hearing more from you.
Peace
Fred…
I clearly stated I only sent in the pictures. I did not write the article.
Admin does not say the machine in the picture was used once a day. YOU are the only one who said that and continue to argue with yourself over it.
My advice , re-read the article once more and come back on here to apologise for wasting everyones time , we at that stage may start taking you slightly seriously.
Keith….
I have a choice when people like Fred come on here , ignore then or use them as a lesson.
Everyone on here came to the same conclusion as you within the first few posts , he has ties to Power Plate.
It is the closest we get to Power Plate fronting up , so showing people how they operate in real life is important.
His serious advice of telling me to ignore and not report our industries problems no matter how bad , and instead swap it for more personal wealth shows the reader I am not joking about them.
These people are real and that is how they think.
I will admit though because he got confused on a couple of simple concepts this whole thing took 3 times longer than normal. Kind of like reeling in a deranged fish.
Mr Fred Lehman I am with Lloyd right now looking at the same article.
It says “I imagine that under normal conditions ( the machine being used about once a day) this type of machine might last six months before it begins to exhibit similar damage.”
The writer is talking about a hypothetical situation should that machine in the photo be taken home.
You say “-Article pops up saying that the machine was used for about three weeks, about once a day.”
Lloyd may have been rude to point out that you cant read but he does seem to be right.
To be fair that machine was damaged by just over 300 sessions. So it may last 2 yrs in a home environment if only one person was using it.
Which means it would be well out of its warranty period and you would have no rights to complain, which I suppose they are counting on.
Not acceptable for an $18,000 machine no matter how you look at it if you ask me.
Involvement in the posting of the article and your history excludes you from those who can speak objectively about it. This posting ran longer than normal bc a couple people on here are not part of your cheerleading squad. Sorry that a little opposition and critical thinking that points out your lack thereof gets you upset enough to come up with a deranged fish analogy. (I wonder if reeling in a deranged fish would burn 1000 calories like some of your studios still claim you can in a 10 minute session with them…?)
Keith,
If you read one of my earlier posts I complimented this guy on some of his other posts. That was before his inner child appeared, with the name calling. I lose respect for grown men that have to resort to that online.
I think I’m with you on most things. My personal experience (@ my health club! Not my studio as it’s been suggested) with some equipment might be different than yours but I’m all for a mature debate.
Best to you,
F.L.
Lloyd, you just wrote “To be fair that machine was damaged by just 300 sessions”
Hey, I said that quite a few posts back.
This is the point of discussion really: was the machine damaged by being used once a day or damaged in a commercial setting with 3 weeks of use.
All this discussion because Fred has a reading comprehension problem.
Fred, please re-read the article slowly.
Fred , listen carefully , this is not a put down.
You cant read and you got confused often , that is a problem if you are to hang out in forums and try to communicate with people who want a serious conversation.
People on here love a debate , but that is not what this was , it was everbody on here repeating over and over again you have a comprehension problem and you completely failing to address it.
My involvement….
So according to your rules I am not allowed to partake in conversations if I have been involved in the articles in any way and because I have been in the industry for years.
Thats really strange as thats why I thought people read my articles and come here to ask me questions.
Your involvement…
As you say you are not involved in vibration training and just a casual onloooker, then you are welcome to comment on the articles , but never presume to give me advice on my industry and how I should treat those who would hurt it.
If you came into my mortuary and told me what to do on a case you would not get such a polite response.
Lloyd,
Ha…Your mortuary? A reference that I came into your website? Haha, you’re comical and with an overinflated sense of who you are.
Keep avoiding my points, people have already seen what this is.
Happy blogging…
F.L.
No I meant my mortuary , I am a mortician.
And if you told me what to do in that environment you would get the same response. But more pointed , if you know what I mean.
Your reason for being on here was ( I think ) to argue that the machines could not break down in 3 weeks and I am a liar
You unfortunatly made a joke of that arguement by getting confused so it kind of lost its sting and got boring quickly. Better luck next time.
Oh yea…
It might be important to mention that because I wasnt breast fed I only display 2 emotions , rage and lust and I dont sleep alot.
Please come again.
After having bought and used a Power Plate Personal for almost 2 years, my mother wanted a better machine. She asked me to assist her. While doing research I luckily found this site. Here I have asked lots of questions and received lots of answers, mostly from Lloyd. He recommended Hypergravity and VibroGym, so I contacted both companies. After a while it was clear that Hypergravity wasn´t for us (even if it seems to be the forum darling), so we decided to buy the VibroGym Evolution. I have no other connection to the industry and no other connection to Lloyd.
The only reason Fred has accused you all of commercial motives for your opinions is because people like him will never get their head around the fact your views are not brought and sold because for him if money talked the truth would walk.
I know I could personally be more appealing online to a certain type of consumer by staying quite and more PC .
But I am not willing to play that part in the fear I might lose a sale or frighten off someone .
I will die a happy man if people like Fred never like me.
See http://www.coreperformance.com, the “performance section” of the forum for a guy AP/Power Plate has hired to answer all vibration questions. This should be interesting.
I have put in a simple question , lets see if we get a straight reply.
OK. Q and A is on at coreperformance.
Well he fell for the trap of denying all knowledge , which was a test to see what kind of game he was going to play . Marketer or researcher.
It now gives me the advantage of posting evidence to support my questions.
He now has a clear choice , clam up and lose respect from the readers , or side with me and say what Power Plate did was unacceptable.
Tim..
You have to make it very clear why you are asking about the NASA seal , as people respect the serious research that is needed to carry that seal.
And trust is an issue about other research ties Power Plate claim to have if that is not true.
I am simply asking about the seal, because I am trying to find out what it means. I wrote to NASA, but they did not reply. The Power Plate manager in Sweden just said that NASA is using Power Plate equipment and that PP is allowed to use the NASA seal. Perhaps you know more about this? You are always welcome to clarify things or add to my questions.
I have read this column with great interest over the last few months, and know I want a lineal machine, however still cannot find a lineal vibration plate under £300. Infact they all appear to be much more. I have emailed many of the cheaper suppliers, and they all seem to sell the Oscillating machines.
Please Lloyd or anyone, whilst I realise you dont recommend brands on here, please can you perhaps list those ( if any) sub £500 ( I am in the UK)that are lineal?
Any help would be really appreciated. I am so glad I found this site before I bought one!
You are not going to find something that works for that price, the motors would cost more than that, unless it is just for some therapy.
Tim…
What you were asking was correct , I just wanted you to not back down when he palmed you off.
I see, Lloyd. If you find me backing down due to lack of knowledge (since I am not part of the industry) you are always welcome to add what you like. If I knew more, I would probably ask different questions.
The fact he stated himself the NASA name cannot be used, but when it is pointed out the company he pushes does it all the time he shuts up , says it all.
I just wanted to make sure you got your arguement across.
The main arguement is at what point can you no longer stand by a company , turn a blind eye to all the bad things they do , just for the pay check.
I left and so can he.
If he chooses to help Power Plate cover things up his good intentions regarding research will not count for anything. He will only be remebered for partaking in a scam.
That´s where you come in, Lloyd. You see, I only know of the Power Plate manager in Sweden claiming (in conversation with me) that PP may use the NASA seal in marketing. If you know of more instances where this argument or the NASA seal has been used, you can add that.
well,even if just for therapy, however I still want a lineal one? please could you just list those under £500 Uk pounds, $1000 us dollars? I would be very grateful
Sorry ,Tara but all we do is really give advice on what to look for , hence the articles, we do have the odd favourate that stands out in the higher end market we may talk about , but there are about 70 machines fitting the description you mention.
Now you know what to look for , my advice is to go onto ebay and have browse.
Tim…
An example of how Power Plate put others at risk. They tell their customers things like ” NASA use our machine ” on the phone or in person.
So it ends up in articles like this….
http://www.fitzmauriceperformance.com/global/inner.htm?i=121
“The Power Plate is currently being used by a variety of elite institutions such as NASA”
Setting the customers up to be sued , and with nothing on paper to prove they were given permission , what can they do.
Check on this tactic by contacting the Power Plate manager and ask for a letter of confirmation, signed by him saying Power Plate can use their name.
Commenting NASA uses similar technology is Ok.
But actually saying they use a particular brand , when it isnt true is wrong.
I agree, Lloyd. That´s the kind of thing you could add to the coreperformance forum.
Shopping center on Gold Coast Australia have been demonstrating/selling “Vibroform” WBV machines for $1250, are these machines OK?
They are cheap rubbish.
What do we think of the Europlate VibraSlim machine? It seems to be a home version.
We dont trust the company that sell it. They never play it straight with the consumer.
Eg… EuroPlate is actually built in Asia .
New Zealand Power Plate Master Trainer and physiotherapist, Jaydn Nixon
Another PP *expert* ?? in the news after designing a program for a NZ triathlete.
If this guy is called “Master Trainer” then what are we to call Lloyd Shaw? Maybe “Vibra-god”?
Sounds kind of kinky though but after reading in other blog that “The amount of woman getting pregnant while doing Vibra-Train … has been staggering” – well really! Lloyd, you usually don’t allow dynamic exercise on your machines *laughs*
Thanks for the input Lloyd. What machine would you recommment for a home use machine in the price range of about $3,000?
Lori…
Where are you ?
Have you read the article on “how to choose a good home machine” under Topics ?
I just posted again on the http://www.coreperformance.com forum (performance section)vibration training thread asking if Scott Hopson, Director of Education for Power Plate, could please answer a question on amplitude. We’ll see if he answers…..
I sir am ashamed of you!!
I work for a fitness facility and we had a Power Plate and it did not show any wear such as you have shown. Could it be that you used the home model in a commercial setting?? Did you not speak against that very thing in another article of yours?
We had the Pro5 Airdaptive. which was out at the same time as your earliest comment. It is made for the commercial industry and did not show any of the wear that you say it would. I find you info biased as well and am heartily saddened by it.
I have worked with physical therapists as well as M.D. that have used vibration training for rehabilitation. Most often in the elderly. So I know for a fact as well that the Powerplate holds up well in a commercial setting such as that. And so no one accuses me I DO NOT sell and vibration equipment. Unlike the so-called gentleman here. As for the supposed problems with power plate all I can say to that is it sound more of a problem with getting a good distributer. If the persons you buy it from back it up it should be no problem. I was looking for other vibration machines for a future date of opening clinic and was very dissapointed to see nothing but selfservice in trying to get people to buy from you. I don’t think I will though.
Marc..
(a) It was a brand new Next Generation model .
(b) Working in the Physio field and with elderly people is not the same as a commercial studio setting that has hundreds of people through it.
(c) The same thing happened to the machines in Power Plates own head studio . How do you account for that ?
(d) A bad distributor can not make the machine break .
(e) I don’t sell machines.
You wont win this argument , the facts speak for themselves. Power Plate released a machine that fell to pieces in a studio setting in 3 weeks , nothing will change that.
To make it worse instead of just saying sorry and fixing it they tried to blame the customers.
If you dont believe me , contact Power Plate and ask why they dont sue me for slander . I dare you.
Marc
I’ve been going to Vibra-Train for 21 months. There are around 8 machines in the studio. Over half have been there since I started and before. The machines look new, exactly as pictures on Websites and Posters. They haven’t deteriorated in performance either. They’re checked and that’s a consumer safeguard but I’d notice anyway. I’m very aware and I’ve commented on occaisional different sounds then find my jacket on the floor had buttons touching the machine.
I visited a local PowerPlate studio that was for sale last year with thoughts of buying. Among other problems the two machines looked worn out. They were about two years old and not even paid off. They’d had regular use (I understand there had been a third machine also). The machine I trialed – The machine anti-skid foot mat looked worn. The overall appearance of the column and display was jaded and fatigued. It was other reasons that I didn’t enquire further about the business but it did concern me that I would have been buying (and finishing paying off) old/worn looking machines.
Marc. I forgot to say: the Vibra-Train Studio I go to 3x week is New Zealand’s biggest studio and constantly busy with people training; Sports people, models and TV/movie people, students, regular people, older people and people who use one machine for rehab purposes. Let’s just say, the machines are used over and over and look and perform great!
Marc…
Power Plate make our industries version of big plastic disposable razors as they want you to have to buy a new one after paying it off. Allot of companies do that with product.
But that is NOT commercial quality in our books.
To all the Power Plate salespeople out there…
I know these kinds of reports make your job harder, but instead of getting angry at us why don’t you direct it at the people responsible for releasing such low grade units from China onto the market in the first place. You can now only hope the person you are selling a machine to has not read this site or talked to someone who has. That number will get smaller every year.
One day when Power Plate have the guts to approach us about these issues and apologize for accusing people of being dishonest or tampering with machines , then we might stop giving them a constant hard time.
Until that day comes we will continue to comment on our experiences with them and believe they are not sorry..
I have more damning emails from one of their own discussing the quality problem and more photos which speak a thousand words.
So I will continue to publish material for years to come until they front up, as it takes so little of my time and energy but worth it to know we might make a difference.
Until then , enjoy the show.
Marc, Come back and discuss this please. You said you are ashamed of Lloyd. You made accusations of possibly using a home machine in a studio setting. You’ve now been told this wasn’t what happened.
Please explain why the PowerPlate machines in the studio I visited (twice) looked worn out when the ones in the Vibra-Train studio look new after two years constant studio use. Of course, it isn’t just the look of the machine, although that does say a lot, performance is what counts and like I said, the Vibra-Train machines still push me very hard to exhaustion, the same machines I have used for 21 months.
I also want to know how you can say, you are ashamed of Lloyd. That’s a very derogatory statement and I wonder who you are and what position you hold in the Health and Fitness Industry that makes you feel you can judge one of the head people in the Vibration Training Industry.
i would like to buy a machine but there are to many to chose from can you recomend one but it has to be quiet
Hi Maria,
It would be helpful if you could tell us how much you want to spend, what you want to achieve/what you want the machine for, and what country you are from
Regards
Mike
Maria… Have you read..
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/05/choosing-a-vibration-machine-for-home
We can clarify certain points if needed , but sticking to those rules will work for you not matter what country you are in.
Do you have any knowledge about the WBV brand Vibeplate as I am about to purchase them for our studio.
Kind regards
Wayne
Hint:
“Simple Vibration does not mean Vibration Training”.
If I were you I would make a concerted effort to try a more commercial unit such as a HyperGravity before I made any decision to part with your money.
A unit like the VibePlate would only be accepted as a light massage or stretch unit within my studio system.
An update on Waynes question…
I just recieved a call from him and the answer has changed due to more information.
He wants to use the platforms for YOGA , in which case he has choosen correctly to purchase a Low Energy Platform such as the VibePlate.
What he will be doing is called ..
“Low Energy Static / Dynamic”
I still do not like the unclear nature of VibePlates website as to the nature of their platforms , but hopefully this will change in time.
I’m unsure if Wayne is in UK or US. Maybe a look at Pineapple platforms would be a worthwhile comparison with VibePlate.
It didn’t look to me like Marc was here to argue, but instead offer his personal experience on the matter. I have a Power Plate but it’s their My5 and i’ve had no problems with it. I have nothing but good things to say about them as a company and how they’ve helped me add their product into my already extensive line of equipment. A good friend of mine is a chiropractor and owns two commercial (dont know the actual model) Power Plates that have held up great, he has a ton of traffic at his practice and it’s been two years already. Look at the pictures. The machine’s platform has worn out where hands or feet would go, and the plastic cover on the buttons cracked…both of those things aren’t caused by vibration but rather repeated use. ?? There’s something shady about those pictures and this article.
Larry…
Thousands of machines had the same problems as in the pictures, and as time goes by more stories (with photos ) from all over the world are going to be published (far too many for people to say it was a small isolated problem ).
I have alot on file and will keep releasing them until Power Plate fronts up .
You are funny……
“helped me add their product into my already extensive line of equipment”
Wonder why they helped you , because you paid alot of money for a plastic machine from China they made for a few hundred dollars, or because they care about the consumer ?
“I have nothing but good things to say about them as a company”
The fact is Power Plate are highly unethical on so many levels , if you agree with the below, then good on you. We simply dont.
——————————————————
(1) Use Doctors and well known academics names on a supposed Medical Advisory Board. When individuals were informed Power Plate were forced to take down the list.
(2) In a sign of total disrespect Power Plate use well known researchers studies and attach it to their untested units . These academics have asked Power Plate to stop. Power Plate continue to this day.
(3) Fabricate disability endorsements and use those endorsements in its advertising.
(4) Label machines made in China with stickers telling the consumer they are made in Europe.
(5) Tell consumers Power Plate are allowed to use the NASA seal of approval.
(6) Precisely engineered steel machines tested at a German University in 2003 , these tests results were attached to untested plastic machines from China the following year.
Note; Engineering tests showed the Chinese units did not match the advertising used to sell it. Power Plate attempted legal action to cover this up.
(7) Photo evidence on research papers doctored in an attempt to fool the consumer the machine has indeed been involved in research.
(8) Supply researchers with fabricated material on machine specifications putting at risk years of honest researchers work.
(9) Ignored advice for product recalls , diversion of said product to soft targets( any consumer unlikely to complain due to lack of knowledge or resources )
(10) Blamed customers when machines broke instead of just fixing them .
——————————————————
You want me to list more things they have done….?
If you still think Power Plate are a GOOD company then you would be in the minority.
Note: If you received a unit that did not fall apart in 3 weeks then it might have been good luck , it was not good management on Power Plates behalf. If they have upgraded some of their customer services then also good , that in no way excuses them from what they have done to others in the past.
A case I am dealing with at the moment from a South African Vibration Training studio shows the dishonesty and disrespect Power Plate practice on a daily basis towards the consumer once they have your money.
They started having problems within a month of delivery, the machine is still broken after 12 months.
I have full correspondence from all parties and photos I will be publishing . Hard to argue with evidence.
To make it clear …….
The Power Plate was used alongside a Vibro-Gym and a Body-Shaker . All sold as being able to handle the pace of a studio ( approx 20 customers a day each unit ).
After 3 weeks only the Power Plate needed repairing and showed visable signs of wear.
Power Plate blamed the customers for being too rough . We are in the middle of the city so most are office workers. Not WWF wrestlers ?
From peeking around this site, ‘Funny’ seems to be a word that you use a lot to describe the people that don’t agree with you. I dont know who you are but making unfounded assumptions about who I purchase my equipment from makes you looks like an ignorant individual who would rather call someone names than have a grown up discussion. The Power Plate is the only machine I purchased from them…nice and simple. Good machine, it’s lasted a while, and I actually have seen results. Tally one up on the other side of the board. Whatever you have against them (undoubtedly more than ‘ethics’ concerns) doesn’t discredit the fact that I (and my chiropractor friend) have had a good experience.
Be Well,
LW
Excuse me…….?
On your first ever visit to this site you put in your post …
“Theres something shady about those pictures and this article.”
You ignored ALL the evidence on this site that Power Plate are a highly unethical company and over-rode it with just one experience to then infer we are dishonest.
While calling Power Plate a “good” company ( your definition of good must be different than my dictionaries ).
I did not once say your experience was invalid , my quip about you being funny was only to your comment suggesting Power Plate are nice to you because they are “good” people.
Does anybody know anything about the Vibra-core machine sold by Sears?
Thanks for the info.
Jean
Cheap Chinese made Vibration Therapy machine. Not a training model.
Similar to this….
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/10/warning-to-home-users-heres-how-you-are-getting-cheated
what about the vibrostation its a home unit but they say its ok to put into a small gym is it wort the money £899 thanks gary
Gary…..
Not great but it will do.
Put it into a gym my ass !!!
I LOVE THE FACT ALL YOU CAN DO IS TRY AND FIND FAULT IN POWER PLATE!!! ITS IS THE BEST OUT THERE PERIOD!!!! They know it! I know it and that’s that!!
No I think you will find you are about the last person left who thinks that.
And you are probably paid to say it. Loser.
Ouavale
Ouavale, I’m guessing you think Powerplate is good because you have only tried Powerplate and other plastic machines. The first Vibration Trainer I tried was a terrible plastic pivotal which I LOVED! I then tried Powerplate which I also thought was great. It was only once I tried a Vibrogym, a BodyShaker and Hypergravity, that I realised what a a diference steel makes (sort of makes standing on a Powerplate like standing on a bumblebee). I have since got Vibra-train machines and again the bar is raised. Most of the people on the site who are knocking Powerplate do so because they have tried a range of machines and have a benchmark. I would be interested to know what machines you have tried to compare your Powerplate with?
Lloyd/Anyone:
Do you know of any units that are similar to the Juvent 1000 model? i.e., around .3g force using frequencies in or around the thirties (30 – 39Hz) that is not some cheap piece of junk?
A follow-up to my above e-mail regarding “is there a similar unit to the Juvent 1000 model?” I did NOT mean to say the Juvent 1000 was “a cheap piece of junk.” On the contrary, the Juvent 1000 appears to be very well made, and has good science backing it. I just wanted to know if there were other “equivalents” out there, and I did not want “an equivalent” to be a “cheap” knock-off.
The Pulse Trainer is not a piece of junk and it has settings equivilent to Juvent.
It is also Pivotal or Lineal. It should be approx $2000
http://www.pulsetrainer.com/index.cfm/PageID/1/ViewPage/Home
Lloyd:
Thanks for the Pulse Trainer reference! One question: if a person has “mitro-valve prolapse” (1 in 10 people have this) should one use a vibration machine???
Thanks again.
No issues at all.
Lloyd:
Thank you for responding about the mitro-valve. Actually it is “mitral-valve.” My mistake. However, in your answer I assume you knew what I was referring to?
I am checking Pulse Trainer to see what the minimal amount of “g” force the device can emit. Hope the device has the ability to individually adjust amplitude apart from the adjustability of the Hz.
On its Lineal setting it has a range of 0.2 mm — 4mm going up in 0.2 increments.