Do Different Machines Give Different Results?
This is a question designers, manufacturers and the marketeers of most current units hate to answer. Because the simple fact is they don’t know the answer.
The correct question to really help get your head around how complicated it all is - is this …
Can two different machines give identical results?
The logical answer - taking into account the complicated nature of physics and physiology - is of course no. It would actually be impossible. This idea is not just mine, but is bound in law. Once Medical Certification (MDD) of a machine is applied for, not even a single design feature can be changed due to the conclusion this would also change its overall function. If a company is caught doing this it can be stripped of its certification.
So the question then goes to: What results would differ and can those differences be pinpointed, explored and then magnified? Creating units that are hyper-oriented towards one results-based function.
At the moment the industry is in a phase where companies are producing machines that resemble swiss army knives - lots of functions (wide range of amplitudes and speeds etc …) - but like most multi-tasking knives it will always only be good for the small jobs. You wont be killing a crocodile with the blade, and the saw wont go through a decent house plant let alone a whole tree.
You get the idea.
Most of these companies run on fear - fear of losing a sale. The only difference they want to discuss is price, or simple specs that can be put on an advert. It is not in their best interest to discuss such things as the science behind the results, as this is where they will lose your confidence and then the sale.
Note: The price of a machine should not only reflect the quality of the engineering but also the knowledge used to design it. If all a company can tell you is the advertised specs which is identical to a cheaper model then why buy it ?
I am not expecting all companies to fully understand this science. As an industry it will be a long time before that happens if it is possible at all. But I do not agree with them covering up their lack of knowledge with the lie that their machines is the same as others - knowing it to be impossible.
Written by Lloyd Shaw on February 13th, 2008
7 Comments
Where are all the articles from leading brands ?
This is an actual question . It cant go unnoticed any longer that none of the leading designers/manufacturors have released any new material now in about 3 years.
In a market so competitive I do not believe they would be holding back . Anyone have a theory ?
Hi Lloyd, as shared on here a number of times - Pineapple has a different approach to Vibration technology, and as we espoused - potentially the need for a different category.
Pineapple has just extended some further direct comparison research (particularly Powerplate), and I look forward to publishing the data and results when available.
I will also contact you directly, and begin to investigate a way for some additional cross-comparison with Vibra-Train.- Zeki
March 3rd, 2008Hi guys, this forum is great! Keep up the good work, there are lots of people reading this blog and talking about your achievements!
Hello Nick and Lloyd. Nick I have spoken with you on the phone, I hope pineapple is going well. Lloyd, I see vibra train is still working well for you.
To answer your question…. I believe many of the studies are being performed yet the results aren’t positive. Additionaly, BOSCO who was perfomring these studies went out on his own and created two machines of his own. I bet he realized there was money to be made in this industry and gave up on research.
I have been working with Dr. Brent Alvar at the Arizona State University Health and Wellness center formerly known as Kinesiology. They just finished a study with 45 respondents. They tested the isokinteic muscle response of my machine versus a stationary bike.(Lloyd– I know you are into the technical nitty gritty of testing)— All results were measured on a dynamometer. I am visiting them tomorrow and am entitled by contract to a copy of the study for publication. Rest assured gentlemen that you will get a copy.
LLoyd, they will also be testing my new Chinese models for safety and effectiveness. Lloyd as you know– I am adhering to the IVTRB standards. I do not want to sell anyting that hurts anyone in the public.
For now good night—- I’ll post results soon.
Hi, I was just wondering if the testing results for these machines will be out soon. Thanks, Penny
Lloyd, first I would like to thank you for the possitive contribution your efforts have in creating a more mature environment for vibriation training.
I would like to comment on the research from leading brands. One publication with VibroGym systems was last year 2007 http://www.medsci.org/v04p0159.pdf
in Medical Science related to Type 2 Diabetes. The outcome is as we can expect of a first study there is positive effect but needs further research.
The main issue with real research is that it takes time and lots of funding. There are several studies ongoing as scientific proof on any health product is essential. However before there is a publication in an important magazine it can take 2 to 3 years. That is a fact we have to live with. In the medical area we expect that Vibration training can be quite usefull and we are working on the proof.
February 13th, 2008
Hello Lloyd and all other friends who regularly visit and contribute here,
My belated New Year Wishes to all of you. Although it is already mid/February, we just had the Chinese - Lunar New Year last Friday.
I have been very busy for several months that avoided me to show up here.
Eventhough guidelines have been repeatedly given for selection of decent vibration training device, there are always newcomers seeking for advice.
Allow me to repeat a few tips here:
1) For lineal devices, vibration frequency shall not go down below 20 Hz.
2) Check the physcial weight of the machine. If the machine can generate strong and good vibration energy, it needs a heavy base to hold itself on the floor.
3) Check the machine’s loading capacity. If the machine is using cheap motor, you might make it to fail by jumping slightly on it.
4) Vibration Training actually means overloading musculoskeletal system with hyper-gravitational force. Even if so-called 3-dimensional vibration was created on purpose as some marketers claim, the vibration force other than vertical direction is believed to be almost meaningless in strength training. Imagine punching perpendicularly onto someone with say, 10 lb. strength is different from rubbing on someone with same 10 lb. strength.
TC