Understanding Quality vs Price
Pivotal Machines
The basic function of all pivotal units will be the same. As the sole job of the unit is to tilt you from side to side trying to get you to re-balance - over and over again until you get tired. They will differ in how far they will tilt you, and argue how fast they should tilt you. However not much force is required for this action as it is not trying to lift up your entire body weight. The job can be done with one cheap motor. And no - this mechanism has no patent on it that would stop anyone from building a similar unit.
In other words a cheaply built machine can feasibly give you the same workout as the most expensive model. I use the word “feasibly” due to the following limitations of cheap machines:
- The bearings will wear out quickly.
- Only limited body weight can be taken.
- If the upper speeds are used, it will wear out even faster.
- There may be a limited amount of usage before it breaks down. (I know they come with a warranty, but they are praying you get bored long before that happens).
- It will drop speed if you are not standing perfectly in the middle of the plate.
- The cheap home units I have seen are very unstable with a lot of movement going on that is not accounted for in any of the studies I have read.
In summary, the cheaper Pivotal units can be used by light people, who are not going to use it much, and don’t mind being thrown around randomly.
Note: Follow the programs given with these units at your own risk. Remember the word is LOW. Low cost, low function, low education, zero responsibility. One operator was denied warranty work due to the fact his customers
were “Too heavy and going too fast” so the rip-offs do happen.
Quality units will not have the above limitations and should perform to their exact function for a number of years. This is a must if you wish to operate a unit in a business.
Lineal
Now this is completely different. Unlike Pivotal units you cannot build a cheap Lineal machine that also performs its basic function. Unless of course you are one of those marketeers that like to say “Vibration = Vibration Training” (which it not true).
The machine has to be able to lift you up and let you drop back down at a rapid pace as though you were doing mini-jumps. If it loses speed or pressure in any way you just end up with a massage for your feet.
Here is a good field test:
Jump up in the air just a few inches landing with your legs bent. Feel the pressure and movement your legs go through when you land. If the machine you are looking at feels less than that then it is not a “Training” machine.
Note: Vibration Therapy benefits may be obtained from “lighter” feeling units and weight loss MIGHT occur due to increased movement for a short time frame after you start, so if this is all you are looking for you do not need to spend a fortune.
Be aware that weight restrictions and other mechanical problems may occur with the usage of cheaper materials.
See more in-depth concerns about quality here.
33 Comments
Applying for a Patent , getting a Patent and then enforcing it are 3 completely different things. Most just use the term as a selling tactics hoping no-one checks up.
I often wonder if claiming this could be grounds for a refund ?
Lots of companies apply for patents , they are granted but are abandoned due to the fact they are basically worthless , as counties with no trade agreements will let copies be made and exported , and no-one is prepared to act on the importers.
Even counties where the company that developed the technology is based will allow replicas to be openly sold .
Now…… honest competition keeps an industry honest , but to date the trend has been to sell replicas that do not even function properly , so both the developer and the consumer lose out.
Note…
When companies isolate themselves and refuse to communicate , like Galileo has , I can not act to protect them.
- Di Heap
February 16th, 2008I don’t know if it’s you personally that would be protecting other companies Lloyd but it is essential that Vibration training companies form some sort of alliance and work together, to have the best possible industry in terms of machines and the programs used and Instructors. Also to advertise/promote or more correctly - to Advice and Educate people of the need for fitness/exercise and the benefits of wbv as a starter or complete fitness program and as an adjunct to other sports and fitness activities.
Some lectures I’ve attended this weekend have left me stunned at how little the fitness industy as a whole and politicians also are doing to educate people about their need to do some form/s of exercise. In USA the second % cause of death (the first is tobacco)is diet/activity patterns. In New Zealand we spend lots $’s advertising/educating people about safe car driving practises yet almost nothing is spent on encouraging fitness/exercise. Huge $’s are spent on care of people after they become ill (heart attack/ stroke/ obesity). Sure we can’t save all the people but some don’t even know they are lost, hmmm, sounding like an advert for a religion here;-) Of course some don’t want to be helped but for those there must be penalties or maybe the opposite, rewards for those who do exercise, tax relief or part fees to gym or wbv or sport paid by govmt (from taxes instead of the huge $’s that now go into hospitals especially in NZ). If we paid people to exercise we wouldn’t have so many heart attacks.. oh but you’ve said this for ever Lloyd as you see the results in your mortuary job..
The future (the year 2000) did not deliver the 3day working week and hovercrafts to fly to work thru uncluttered skies (that my generation believed would come), instead we all work longer hours and endure traffic jams and stress. Electrical goods have given us lots of help and fun but we don’t even have to walk to change the TV station or answer the phone now. The time will come were exercise is legislated and forced apon the populace. I hope wbv companies will be ready for this!
I would like to believe GALILEO is a decent manufacturer. I would believe they would not make false claim. However, claim of tilting vibration mechanism as a patent could be a mislead.
If GALILEO could register tilting vibration mechanism as a patent, they would have sued other manufacturers like GLOBUS, PROELLIXE and those Chinese manufacturers who are also making pivotal vibration plates.
I think it is possible that GALILEO has been able to design a unique mechanism which can produce tilting vibration and this is the mechanism that they have filed a patent.
If we look at the pivotal vibration plates in the market, we shall find GALILEO has a quite low platform while other brands’ platform are higher. Although they all tilt side to side, their mechanism could be different.
TC
Yes , but the fact they have not been pro-active in protecting an industry they helped start , I would be surprised to see a change in behaviour now.
- Di
February 19th, 2008I’ve just watched two youtube videos showing VibraSlim (Crazyfit) machines. Some of the positions look dangerous to the lowerback as that seems to be the point where the pivotal vibrations converge. Also positions lying on the ground with feet on machine would put considerable body weight onto the upperback and shoulders.
I have tried these machines and really didn’t like the seesaw sensation but with all the advertising for them and all the home user sales that have taken place there must be some happy users out there.
I’d love to hear from people who have used the VibraSlim machine (or Crazyfit) for a whole year and have good (or bad) results that they’d like to tell us about. Please state how many times per week (for a whole year or more) that you have used the machine and for how long (20 minutes maybe) and what health or fitness benefit you have attained.
I have read people comment on various forums that they love this machine but they don’t say how long they’ve had it and also many who buy it and use it once or twice only then try to resell it. Please tell us of your experiences. No sales people please. Just genuine users of VibraSlim/Crazyfit machines.
- Karen Stuart
March 2nd, 2008As someone who worked for Galileo. I can assure you a patent was registered in 1996 by novotec medical.
The Galileo system is one of the best in the world and in my opinion the company are very ethical. I have visited the factory and was very impressed with the setup. The company has close ties with the medical field and are very much respected in europe.
Galileo was also the first company to have their systems approved as a medical device in the EU and made under strict ISO conditions. This costs the company thousands of pounds each year. Im sure they could get their systems made in asia and reduce their prices but they do not strike me as a company who are driven purely by profit. The Galileo is just one of many items that the company has invented.
Going back to the patent issue I am sure they are dealing with certain companies as we speak and each country has different laws to protect patents. I know in the US patents are protected extremely well, but obviously this is not the case for every country. No company can protect itself from asian copies. If you close down one company, they will just open up another in a different name. They also do not compare in the slightest to the quality of the Galileo and do not have the research to back their claims.
Yes we often recommend Galileo on here to those wanting a good quality Pivotal unit.
But their behaviour in refusing to communicate with anyone else in the industry ( especially those involved in consumer protection ) is seen as arrogant , and has isolated them. And contrary to their belief , we are making a dent in the unethical manufacturors wallets.
They must know that the industry cannot regulate itself without communication , and education is our best weapon , not lawyers , so they are working against us on a number of issues.
They are out by themselves now , and I wish them luck.
Can someone please give me the pros and cons of the HYPERGRAVITY machines. They say they’re made of metal as opposed to plastic–and in the U.S. as opposed to China. Also, as someone with a bad back, am I better of with a pivital or linear machine? And finally: Can one trust these home machines that sell for approximately $4,000 to hold up? Respectfully, Bob
(1) The HyperGravity company just has a good reputation regarding quality and warranties. The company still has to make a reputation in other areas.
(2) Lineal is safer for a bad back unless you have an instructor.
(3) Only HyperGravity has a rep for home units at the moment. But others will hopefully follow .
- mariana lara
April 4th, 2008Hi I am writing from mexico, and I am asking to the email from Di on february 19th, 2008 I have been going to a place in mexico call vibragym http://www.vibragym.com.mx I tought they have profesional platforms but as I have been reading…
Di I have been used this pivotal machines and I have loose weight and inches but began to feel dizzy and with pain on my hips. I am really scare because they use the machine on it fast speed or hz. can you please take a look of this platforms…
thank you
mariana - mariana lara
April 4th, 2008Di I forgot to explain to you: in this program I have to go six days a week for 15 minutes and I have been on ot for eleven months.
the kind of platforms I have found on several web sites under diferent prices from 500 usd to 899 usd on amazon.com for example.
I tought with this information you and LLoyd can help us, there is no much understanding on this technology in my country,
thanks Mariana…
(1) Those machines are not considered professional or commercial , they are Pivotal home machines.
(2) If they are running them at high speeds , stay of them , it is not worth the risk.
(3) If they dont know how to use Pivotal units properly it is from just plain lazyness.
- mariana lara
April 4th, 2008thanks Lloyd , we dont have enought information at Mexico so it is really pleasant to have comunication and access to this kind of web, I am still really worry because in our country there is only this place or brand and power plate wich is expensive, there is no more and really worrys me that they are playing with our health.
I tought there are no enought laws in our country to prevent the growing of this kind of places like vibragym with no appropiate machines.
As I see on your previous comments power plate is ok for you??
regards and will be in contact
mariana Power Plate is not Ok with me , they have been very dishonest to the consumer in the past and are one of the worst companies around.
If people want to run businesses with these machines they should be willing to spend time on safety and education , and not believe the marketers.
This will lead to better choices and a better business.
- Di Heap
April 5th, 2008Hello mariana lara
Thank you for replying to my post that I made on February 19th, asking for people who regularly used “CrazyFit” machines to comment on them.
No one has told me that they like these machines after using them for 3 months or more. I have only tried these type of machines maybe 3 times in Stores so I really can’t comment myself but I don’t like the sensation. It makes my back feel like it’s being ripped apart. I tried one of these first, before I tried a lineal machine so it’s not just that I am used to other machines.
It’s good that you have lost weight but if the machine now makes you feel unwell, you must not use it or at least not until you are well again and then not so often.
I can hardly believe my eyes looking at the picture on the Media (medios) page of the website you posted. The handstand position must be so bad for the back I think.And No. Power Plate is not okay. If you read the articles on here you will learn more.
- mariana lara
April 5th, 2008Hello again, maybe I didn´t take the time to go forward on all the comments, I will do that and then comeback but it is really sad to find out that there are no options for us at México if we can not buy a quality platform.
Right now I feel the need to be able to advise all the people who is at vibragym.com.mx or power plate Mexico of the risks they are taking. if you go in to they web page both seems to be profesional studios, for example I can not understand how vibragym is selling their franchise, how do they get the health license, are there laws to protect us??
I can not understand this at they web you can see that they are expanding to south america..how?? and they tell you that thay have certifications.
power plate is the same or worst because they present theyselves as the number one WBV studio in the world.. That really confuse me otherwise they have or they say that they have all the certifications , are these all lies???
Thanks I will read all the comments but I am really mad with this brands or studios but dont know how to confront them, they play with my health!! and still doing this with other people health thay say that their machines are professional and sell them on 3000 usd!! I can not believe this
Mariana Hi Mariana,
Something you may want to ask them is to see their certifications. Is it self endorsed?
Certification for training should come from a non biased source, regulated and enforced. Non biased meaning, not a company making up some rules that apply how they see fit to make them. A standard does need to be set, but at this point the only “certifications” out there are through the companies selling their equipment.
As for studios opening up right now their are no limitations. You can pretty much do what ever you like with a studio, anywhere. Education about the equipment and training is the only way to regulate it, and like you have found out, at this point it is self regulated (you make the difference).
Their is no independent qualification anywhere in the world on Vibration Training.
The certificate they do show off you…
Is an in-house qualification . If anyone desplays it I would say they are knowingly being dishonest.
I had an e-mail from someone who sat the Power Plate cert , it was meant to be 2 days but ended up 1 afternoon. Even if it did go for the full 2 days there is no way you could become a qualified , safe trainer in that time.
No-one with any integrity would desplay it let alone use it do get business .
And this is the kind of thing Power Plate does to get peoples money…
(1) Engineering tests / not from machine supplied to consumer.
(2) University tests / not from machine supplied to consumer.
(3) Medical endorsements / not from machine supplied to consumer.
(4) Awards carried forward / not from machine supplied to consumer.
(5) Misuse of top academics names.
(6)* Misuse of disabled peoples endorsements.
(7) Country of manufacturor changed for promotional reasons .
(8)* Machines not running to spec sold to disabled consumers.- karla
April 7th, 2008Hello Mariana I didnot knew much english but need to tell you i have been going on to the vibragym.com.mx theire playing with us my oculist tell my that they dont have controll with their vibrations and if i dindt stop going to this place i could get blind for (desprendimiento de retina) this is really serious i dont know were to go or publish on what web site this info to prevent another persons from this unescrupulous people who are cheating for money,
thanks to everione and be aware of then dont go!!!!! Karla…
Those cheap machines are unlikely to ever cause retina damage , you would need to stand on them lock-legged for an extended period of time . I would say the headache and dizzyness you would get from doing so would kick in well before any actual damage was done.
The problem you are having in your country can be fixed . In N.Z. all the dodgy studios have closed down and the same will happen when we hit town.
- Arnold
April 11th, 2008Does anyone have information about the Galileo Basic, or VibraFlex Home Edition? I’m interested in trying whole body vibration for lower back pain and muscle tension, and I like the portability of these machines. I’ve found one gym in my area (New York) that uses PowerPlate machines, which I will try. Are there any other gyms in New York that have whole body vibration machines?
Just make sure you realize Galileo/VibraFlex is Pivotal.
Power Plate is Lineal.
- Arnold
April 13th, 2008Yes, I realize that the VibraFlex is different then the PowerPlate, but the only machine I know of in a commercial location near me that I can try out is the PowerPlate. Do you have any feedback on the VibraFlex? Also, do you have any feedback on the Soloflex WBV? I’d love to be able to visit one of your branches and try the machines out, but I’m nowhere close to New Zealand. I just became aware of WBV training, and I’m hoping to get as much information about the pros and cons of the different products before making a purchase. Unfortunately, the options for testing these machines in the New York area before making a purchase seem limited.
The Vibra-Flex = Good quality Pivotal
The Power Plate = Medium quality Lineal ( uncontrolled )
Soloflex = Step pad + small vibrator attached .
- Arnold
April 15th, 2008Lloyd, thanks for sharing your WBV knowledge and your product reviews. Would you consider all of VibraFlex’s products to be good quality. I am specifically looking at the Home Edition, which is more portable and more economical. I am wondering if it is less functional due to it’s small size (1.6 x 1.0 x 0.4 ft, and weighing 66 lbs). Do you have any specific feedback for the VibraFlex Home Edition?
Sorry no direct feedback on that exact unit.
Just the companies good reputation to date.
Hi Arnold,
I have tried this home machine. In comparison to the Proellixe, the home vibraflex model is superior. The drive mechanism is much more powerful. I used it during a demo session. The machine did not slow down no matter how much loading I put on it, or what position I stood.
In comparison, when all your weight is on one side of the plate with the proellixe it would slow down and sound like the bearings/ motor was going to give up at any moment. The vibraflex home model will almost throw you off the plate trying the same thing, it would not slow down or give any indication of stress. I even jumped on it to try push its limits, no problem.
The most attractive difference is the price, for almost 1/3 the price of most commercial units out there you would be getting a superior plate.
ps; do not follow the vibraflex training protocols if you do decide to purchase, they are far too aggressive for the average user.
Hi Josh,
Are you Canadian dealer for Hypergravity or directly from Hypergravity?
TC
I am the Canadian dealer.
As predicted because of the rapid growth in China….
The price of iron ore has risen 65% in the last 12 months so a price increase in the larger steel models is going to happen eventually.
I suspect most companies will absorb price hikes for a while, but it is important to note that large commercial machines will only increase in price in the future.
As plastic is made from oil the cheaper home units may increase in price as well , but to not such a high degree.
February 15th, 2008
Lloyd, finding this site and reading your articles actually saved me from buying one of those crazy fit machines, thankyou. I’m curious though, the vibraflex (galileo) machine does claim to have a patent on the tilt mechanism. Why do you say there is no patent? And if there is a patent, why don’t they take out all these dodgy copies?