Warning to Home Users: Here’s How You Are Getting Cheated
Here is a PDF copy of an actual wholesale order form for a “Vibrating Massager”. Look carefully at the price: 125 US Dollars per item.
I’ve shown the picture from the order form.
Among the claims listed with the machine is this: “Excellent body shaper melts away mass body fat”.
Now let’s look an actual ad (see below) for the exact same machine from a retailer. You will note the machine appears to be identical (except for a different brand).
It sells for a price of 1,699 US Dollars. A mark-up of %1,359.
No wonder there is such a clamor to try and market these machines.
If integrity and quality does not enter the market soon - the entire concept of Whole Body Vibration will become (remain?) a laughing stock.
Please refer to the article Choosing a Vibration Platform for Home - before parting with your hard-earned cash.
UPDATE 11 Feb 2008: Picture removed after request from owner of the product
Written by Site Administrator on October 14th, 2007
105 Comments
Hey Lloyd,
Crazy fits are going for $199 on ebay here in the USA…
Wont be long before you will be able to buy a unit at Walmart for less than $100.
Proof is in the pudding as they say…
I have a Vibra-Slim ( Crazy-Fit etc….) machine in my studio right next to my machines. It is the $1400 unit so is top of the line for PYC Int ( China) And I am going to invite my experienced customers to try the basic poses . Either 2 things will come of this.
(a) They are telling the truth and it will compare directly with my machines , in which case I will put an honest review on this site. Alot of my customers already read this so I will not be able to lie .
(b) The machine will be found to be a fake.
- Di Heap
December 12th, 2007Can it be compared if it’s a pivotal machine? Completely different experience I would think although I have only tried one pivotal (December 2006) and it was that brand but I think it was a cheaper unit.
How would it work for rehab for Achilles tendon strain? Yes or no?
Playing Devil’s Advocate here but I think your regular customers will be biased so it will be hard to get a comparison. The opposite trial would be interesting - If someone comes into your studio that already uses a vibra-slim machine, put them on it and then on a vibra-train. Now that would make a very interesting comparison!
No I do not believe it is a fair comparison , but I am not the one saying they are the same thing .
The manufacturor is still using my companies name Vibra-Train to sell its product.
“Welcome to the website of VIBRA-TRAIN The crazy fitness massage Specialists.”
The machine will be going to various trade shows as well with copies of my plageriarized website as part of the ongoing educational process needed to protect everybody .
I will let the public decide how bad they really are.
Got to love the caution notice on the front though…
” Dont put the finger or any eyewinker in the gap in case of any risk”
Good solid advice for most things in life.
- KG
December 12th, 2007Lloyd, Di, et al….
Seems to me the real question is….
Do you Pineapple?
http://www.pineapple.la/Very sharp website. Love the videos BUT, I’m sick of all the sexism dammit. I want to see chicks on vibration platform videos! (:
Levity aside, what are all your thoughts? I’ve never seen some of the platform movements so slow before(with the visible eye) and at such amplitude.
I think they are made in China-which is a no-go in my book- but hey, it’s not like it’s toothpaste or toys or food/pharma products, so maybe it will escape all the lead and toxins that seem part of the bargain for doing business there…I’ve got an open mind.
On first looks though it does look interesting. What I’m wondering is if the forum thinks my “interesting” is their “gimmicky”. Thanks Folks.
KG
There is a place for that type slow repetitive kenetic rebalancing training” in Therapy and as long as certain safety principles are being followed I will not give Nick a hard time.
Looking at specs for the pineapple machine, is there any risk training on a lineal machine with a hertz rating of 5-30 and the amplitude at 1mm?
From a theoretical point of view yes , but not everybody is going to stick to the theory and the “short term exposure” arguement can always be used to try and justify variations . I believe we will see units running out of the normal range more often.
I do not agree with this but hope….
(a) That the persons responsable is telling the customers it is experimental and may not do the same thing as what standard Vibration Training does.
(b) Is not lying about the FQ ( like PowerPlate did ).
This will at least offer the consumer a chance to hit the net and do some reseaech for themselves.
I will not be kind to those who fail to do this.
- Di Heap
December 16th, 2007The up dated Pineapple website is a good look except for the annoying intro and that Nick seems to forget to update it regularly (last news is dated October). I find the whole Mind, Body, Spirit emphasis amusing even though I know they are all affected by whatever exercise we do.
I can’t find the page that used to tell me that pineapple will rejuvenate my sex life but it does tell me that pineapple will automatically create a Zen-state in my brain so I guess that transcends any earthy desires! (no more videos of chicks on wbv platforms, guys)
About Pineapple machines. I haven’t a clue so wont comment. Have read the specs and watched videos before. They are too different to any I’ve tried and I hope to get opportunity to try them one day. Very expensive in $US.
You want girls in machnies ? Heck the Fit-Vibe soft Vibra-Porn ad is going to keep me amused for years.
But then I dont get out much.
- KG
December 16th, 2007The fit-vibe youtube was amazing…in so much that, it wasn’t meant to be a parody. But the Barry White soundtrack?!? Wow. They can’t seriously hope to sell those things with that.
I wanna see the fitvibe girl…..
Pineapple! - Di Heap
December 17th, 2007About The Vibra-Slim/Crazy Fit Machine.
Lloyd, as you know Greg tried it on Thursday night when you were out of the studio. He hoped it might help with a sore calf muscle and says it did have a massaging effect on it. He says he feels very unsure of the machine though and isn’t willing to use it regularly because of the up/down effect which is not like walking although it is promoted as such. Walking is on a level (relatively) surface where one leg is lifted up and forward and put down, not one leg up and the other down below the pivotal surface. He says he doesn’t like running on the camber of the road and this was similar although alternating. Also as he has no serious info about the safety and long term effects of the machine he’ll decline to use it again. He’s getting excellent results using the vibra-train lineal machines.
- Di Heap
December 17th, 2007Greg’s comments do sound biased as he has been using lineal vibration but I waited 3 days before asking him to comment. He neither liked nor disliked the “feel” of pivotal vibration but he only did varying squat positions and only for maybe 5 minutes max. I hope we can get him to do a full program and get his comments as he is not so biased (in that he hasn’t read much of the information available) that he would automatically choose one machine type over another. There’s no way he would get the muscle strength buildup on a pivotal machine that he needs for major running events but as we have a few months until next events he might be willing to use the pivotal machine for a month trial.
Lloyd,
I appreciate your blog as there is a myriad of information available. I am an academic based at the University of Newcastle, and thought you might be interested to know that I am in the middle of conducting a literature review on WBV research. Am planning to produce the report sometime in the New Year if you are interested based on a limited review of studies.
1. I do have a question about machines though, which I know little about. My understanding from reading your blog is that lower amplitudes 3-5mm is sufficient to produce results, and that hz above 25 are desirable to fatigue/tone muscles etc. Is my understanding accurate?
2. how does the number of watts of a motor affect performance. For instance, I have seen a machine with 140 watt motor, amplitude 3-5mm, and 26-62 rps (hz). I have also seen a machine with a 450 watt motor, 10mm amplitude, and 13-35hz. Both are lineal platforms. Can you comment on these specifications?
3. does revolutions per second mean the same as hz?
e.g. 2500rps = 42hz?Thanks
- Di Heap
December 28th, 2007okay I want to see the answer to 3.
r/min or per sec is a rotational measure whereas hz relates to wave or sound measurement but are they the same when related to wbv?
I guess for your research you need to break down the force of the machine platform into components.Chris will you please tell me what “literature review on WBV research” means. Are you reviewing the literature or the actual machines? Sorry if this is a “dumb” question but I really don’t understand.
Chris…..
(1) Yes , you can actually get results under 1mm. But that is particular to the design.
My cut off point for Hz settings in regards to a safety program for the average population is 38>.
Note: This takes into account the resonance factor that applifies the vibration into the spine. In my opinion the risks outweight the benefits going too low and is just plain annoying to the average user.
I do believe it has a place in an athletics program.
(2) The Watts of a motor does play a role in the overall effect of a unit. But again the designer must have a complete equation in mind or the power can be easily wasted ( so many factors involved in this point alone it needs an entire book devoted to the subject ).
Quite often the best use for more power is to ensure very little drop off occurs if the machine is stressed by weight. Or again the machine can become unstable/dangerous or basically useless.
In my opinion of both the particular specs you gave me…..
(a) 140w sounds ok if used effectively. And the fact it has a wide range is fine. I would really need to see the design of the machine to tell you more.
(b) Sounds like a sports specific machine , and should be used in a build up to an event. Not regular training.
(3) Yes RPS / 60 = Hz
If you are doing a review on other academics work in this field , I hope you take time to note how many have trusted companies to supply the specs of a unit , found out later they have been lied to , putting both the validity of their work and reputation at risk.
This has not been a mistake , it has been intentional.
Di
I am reviewing some of the academic literature (specific studies that they have been doing).
Lloyd
With regards to the provision of accurate machine specs by manufacturers to researchers. I have noted in some of the research that the specific brands of the machines has been named in the research which is a bit dodgy given that research can be severely compromised by “alliances’. I am more interested though in the methodological details (e.g speed of vibration, frequency and duration of treaments) and outcomes of the studies. Most importantly though, the consequent conclusions that can be made for the average user/purchaser of WBV. My concern is that there are so many false, misleading, and sensational claims made by people who have a vested interest in promoting a marketing message, that consumers may be being duped. It also seems apparent to me that there is much to be learned about the finer aspects of this technology and its effective application. There need to be independent people with no vested interest (supposedly like academics) carrying out and reporting research. My instinct tells me that those manufacturers/retailers who adopt a more educational approach are less likely to be misleading consumers, especially if their claims are more or less understated.
By the way. My email address is:
christiaan.mccomb@newcastle.edu.au for those that are interested in what I am doing.
Regards
Christiaan- liss
January 1st, 2008there is another knock off “Vibro form” advertised at 1095.00 (after heavy discounts), but if you look at the picture illustrated on the form it is a “Crazy fit Massage” the company flogging this off is called International Global Concepts. I have just priced, the Crazy fit Massage machine in another location for 300.00 Australian.
Kind
regards
Liss - Di Heap
January 2nd, 2008Yes, that brand has been mentioned before. You are right. Buyers, both for home use and studios, need to be very careful and find out all the info before they buy.
Anyone who has been ripped off can follow the help advice in this article
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/12/what-are-you-rights-when-purchasing-vibration-machines
My best advice is no matter what you are looking at. Buy it from someone with a premises, not some shopping mall stand or internet site.
Another super dodgy statement from the distributors of these types of units.
“Instead of spending 2 hours training, you can now get the same effect in just 10 minutes with the new YO-LIFE exercise and massage system.”
Plastic Pivotal machine from China !!!
Even on the best platform I can build ( cost me 17K+ ) I would not even make a claim like that.
The sellers of VibraSlim in the U.S. are e-mailing everybody to warn them of their intention to…..
” vigorously pursue legal proceedings for trademark infringment and damages “.
This from a company that found it acceptable to steal other companies work to launch their site in the first place ?
And the AVFTA who was also caught plageriarising others works supports their company. Super !!
We have asked for the trademark certs to be sent , all can see if they are telling the truth this time.
- Di
February 12th, 2008A quick search of a USA and Canada trademark register didn’t find the name VibraSlim as WBV but maybe I looked in the wrong place. I did find a Baldwin guitar called Vibraslim in the 1960’s (probably not tm though). Then I found a tm for VibraSlim belonging to a dietary supplement co for protein shakes, drinks and powders, live since 2003.. Lloyd do VibraSlim actually have a TM in USA and Canada. In Canada I found an abandoned tm from the supplement company
So far my investigations show nothing , just like PowerPlate and their “Acceleration Training TM”
Typical marketers , all talk , no action.
- Di Heap
February 13th, 2008PowerPlate were very careful in their use of TM though.. TM actually has no real legal standing. It just means a mark or name that is being used by a company.The mark may be in the process of becoming a Registered TM or maybe just being used unregistered. There is a common miscomprehension that TM means Registered TradeMark but it doesn’t. The designation for that is R. So TM after a word or mark maybe a Registered or non registered mark. It’s up to the reader to check up if necessary. It’s very typical marketing to use this half-truth - TM - as suggestive of a Registered Mark.
Typical of a company like Powerplate.
Nothing real , just lots of hot air and plastic.
The company selling the equipment in the article at the start of this blog now has on its website….
” BEWARE of Chinese machines, they will fall apart”
They are the same people that supplied Chinese made units for extreme prices.
They plan to release a new machine called the “EuroPlate ” , to feed off the anti-Chinese backlash they have helped create.
- Abbey
March 2nd, 2008With regards to this article, I’d just like to make a comment about a recently purchased vibration platform I purchased through a very well known internet/phone mail order company in Australia (Globalshopdirect). The Power Pulse cost around $1,300 (AUD) and came with a 30 day trial period.
I used the machine regularly (generally 3 times a day for 10 minutes, virtually every day of the week) and noticed quite good improvements in tone and comfort (I suffer from neck pain).
However, after about 4 months, the machine just suddenly stopped working (while I was on it!)… and when I turned it on a few times again thinking it may have just been a glitch, the circuit blew.
I don’t understand all the ins and outs of WBV completely, but my own experiences with it have really reinforced the idea that this technology actually works!I don’t understand all the ins and outs of WBV completely, but my own experiences with it have really reinforced the idea that this technology actually works! I’m now shopping around for a new machine (which is how I stumbled across this forum!), but can only give this statement of advice:
If you’re happy to spend less on a machine, that’s great! But be prepared for the plain and simple fact that to have such a low price, the quality of the machine itself is lowered. It won’t last you forever, but it’ll do the trick!
HOWEVER, if (like me) you’re wanting something that will last a lot longer than a few uses, and will be a long term piece of quality equipment, don’t expect to get that from something that’s simply not built to endure it. If you want long term, be prepared to invest the money, because it will be worth it!
This isn’t a slight on WBV at all - I’m all for it! I’m simply saying that you get what you pay for. And if what you’re after is something simple, by all means, go for the cheaper models - just don’t expect them to last forever!
:o)
- Di
March 2nd, 2008Please read this article:
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/12/what-are-you-rights-when-purchasing-vibration-machinesAlso, although Globalshop direct offer only a 30day right of return I think you will find that your State law will have a “sale of goods act” or something similar. 4 months is not long enough for your machine to last. Please contact the company and ask for a full refund. I looked at the shop website and they don’t seem to be offering any guarantees of quality BUT they do have to comply with local laws.
- Abbey
March 2nd, 2008Thanks for that. But unfortunately I have already made over 15 calls to the company (as the machine is still under warranty) only to be told that I would need to pay for the freight back before I could claim my warranty, and that if I left my name and number someone would call me back with the return details (not that I was willing to pay to send it back when the warranty still existed!). Needless to say I still haven’t been able to speak to anyone at the company, and when I do have my calls answered, it goes no further than “leave your name and number”, despite everything I tell them.
Don’t worry, I have reported them to Fair Trading. I have no doubt the money will eventually be refunded.
Kiwis prepared to act on counterfeit exercise equipment …..
Customs Acting Manager of Investigations Dave Meredith says counterfeit goods like this are usually sold in New Zealand shops and over the internet.
“It’s also important to note that these fake goods are poorly constructed and could harm unwitting users,” says Dave Meredith. “Counterfeit products can pose a real danger to the New Zealand public, as well as damaging the reputations of legitimate businesses.”
To date, all the intercepted counterfeit exercise machines came from China.
I just sent an e-mail to Richman And Buthman Enterprises asking them if the below is an accurate sttaement.
“These WBV machines are designed and manufactured by a U.S.company”
http://www.wholebodyvibrationmachine.com/benefits
If they are in fact “made in China” I believe this is misleading at best , why would a company hide the whereabouts of its manufacturing plant and instead “suggest” they are made in the U.S , unless they are embarrased with the truth.
This is an answer to an e-mail I recieved asking why Vibration does not equal Vibration Training.
Here it is agian…..
Its not the type of motor that makes a Vibration Training platform , as there are a number of mechanical systems that produce an up and down effect. If any company says they have a patent on this technology , they are dreaming.
It is the nature of hyper-gravity training and the force that is required that is the definition of what we do and where the understanding of all principles becomes hard . Incorperating those principles into a machine , without compromise is even harder.Hard work is not for everybody , so by definition only a few people will ever succeed at this.
Vibration Therapy and Vibration Training machines are not the same thing. I know I design both.
Vibration Therapy units are cheap to build and hence why they are favoured by Chinese manufacturors and importers. Do you know how cheap it would be if I decked out all my studios with therapy units , I would save a fortune, so why dont I do that ?
One reason , I would be charging for a service that my machines could not provide.
Note: Real therapy units and programs are very good and based on science , but are having their reputation destroyed by those who want to flog them off as training devices.
The e-mail also infers I should just tell everyone , everything I know , my answer to that…
I have used every piece of knowledge I have gained in my life to write my theory and incorperate them into my engineering. With only small amounts of information being released to date , allowing the industry to grow one step at a time.
Note: Pretenders in this market stand out like a sore thumb to me and I dont mind giving them a hard time over it. As I hate lazy people.
The reason they need to pretend is because they are only jumping into this market now , no background interest in this field means they are years behind in base knowledge on every level , something I cannot do anything about and something that will always give them away.
Then you have the other side , academics so caught up in one area of this science , it misses the fact this needs to be an industry to become anything at all.
I have released enough info to protect consumers and get them to ask questions , that is my job.
A polite request…
Could consumers please read the articles under “topics” before asking questions.
Or we risk just repeating the same subject matter.
December 9th, 2007
It is a Pivotal machine and the mistrust of companies dealing with that product comes from a multitude of angles…
(1) Zero understanding of vibration training ( other peoples work was stolen to sell equipment).
(2) Unacceptable breakdown rates.
(3) PYC Int. Inc , the company that makes it posing as other companies .
(4) Unit costs importers $125 U.S. to buy.
None of this adds up to a company you would use. My advice would be to hold onto your money untill we sort them out.