Here is a PDF copy of an actual wholesale order form for a “Vibrating Massager”. Look carefully at the price: 125 US Dollars per item.
I’ve shown the picture from the order form.
Among the claims listed with the machine is this: “Excellent body shaper melts away mass body fat”.
Now let’s look an actual ad (see below) for the exact same machine from a retailer. You will note the machine appears to be identical (except for a different brand).
It sells for a price of 1,699 US Dollars. A mark-up of %1,359.
No wonder there is such a clamor to try and market these machines.
If integrity and quality does not enter the market soon – the entire concept of Whole Body Vibration will become (remain?) a laughing stock.
Please refer to the article Choosing a Vibration Platform for Home – before parting with your hard-earned cash.
UPDATE 11 Feb 2008: Picture removed after request from owner of the product
{ 226 comments… read them below or add one }
One Austraian company saying this as a hook line…
Mines Better than Yours….
….. with various bodies and organisations, distributors and manufacturers
all claiming the high moral ground with regard to effectiveness and outcomes
- purporting superior performance over their competitors….
And the good old…
A gaggle of celebrities and models – such as Madonna, Jessica Alba, Claudia
Schiffer and Heidi Klum have been known to be users…..
Note: They again use the results from a large steel machine as proof it
works…
http://www.reflexbodyplate.com/article1.html
This in my opinion is profiteering plan and simple .
I guess if you add in freight, insurance, duty, the % markup lowers just a little BUT there’s still HUGE, Enormous profit on that machine.
That particular machine is advertised by the company in the bottom picture as being “the best quality vibration machine on the market.” and “Even Vibration exercise machines costing thousands more are not of the same Quality, Construction or Performance!” It is said to be “Rock Solid” and “Super Quiet unlike other vibration exercise machines that feel like they are going to break, sway side to side and are VERY LOUD.”
They list other machines (including lineal platforms which of course are quite different) and prices and say Compare Prices.
It is advertised as a Vibration Exercise Machine and endorsed by a health and fitness trainer, Dr John Spencer Ellis.
Lloyd, I know your article is about the price being charged for home use machines and not an attack on a specific brand/company BUT this advertising is rather far-fetched especially as the company also says that the machine is so affordable because they are the MANUFACTURER.. Clearly this isn’t true!
Manufacturer and Importer are two different entities!
One big draw back!
These manufacturers can get away with this because the public doesnt know any better, and things like this blog are just not seen by the general public!
I managed to drop the over inflated price of these things in N.Z. very quickly using sites like trade-me. The news travels very quickly that way.
In the mean time I am collecting info on the individuals responsable, not just for the profiteering ,but mainly the deliberate exposure to the public of dodgy products , programs and dishonest marketing practices.
Those who have sold them to people with health disorders will top the list.
Name and shame does work. It just takes time for me to set it up so the public is listening.
Lloyd
Any help required in the UK let me know!
I’m sure if we all work together on this things will eventually change!
I will release a set of instructions shortly and the more people involved the faster it will work.
I think that’s great to expose these frauds – and they seem to be all over in the exercise field – vibration is just a prime and excellent example.
Consumer alert….
A company called Elite Vibration using the wording “vibrationtraining” in their web address, is already selling cheap Chinese imports and are even planning to sell versions of the now debunked Soloflex.
This company has nothing to do with http://www.vibrationtraining.net and in fact represents everything we DONT stand for.
I would say this a deliberate attempt to make on the honest reputation this site has gained. Pathetic losers.
I think I stumbled on their site a week or so ago.
I am pretty sure its “elite fitness” (NZ Fitness Shop) selling their equipment through this website.
When I was in Elite Fitness last they told me how they are now buying PowerPlate home machines and Branding them with the Elite Fitness Logo.
I just found the site but I guess you dont want it on here so I wont write the url.
yep I am pretty sure thats Elite Fitness and they are using there high profile name in Gym Equipment to sell crappy machines to everyone using their logos
Yes , if they are the same guys , they sat opposite me once and swore they would never expose people to such products, while trying to get me to train their staff . Of course they where lying to me and obviously planned to the whole time .
They will be named and shamed one day.
There’s no IF about it. The contact phone number is the same number. The websites are made by the same web company.
But, of course you probably know this altready
The guys at VibraSlim are now trying to pass off their product as full commercial on to unsuspecting gyms and fitness centers in Canada and the U.S.
VibraSlim has now changed its name again the “Vibra-Plate”.
Dear All
It must be clear to us all that the only difference between the Powerplate and chinese import machines such as VibraSlim V2/Crazy Fit Massage is motion of the plate going back and forward on the Powerplate. The oscillation up/down movement has a higher amplitude on the Vibraslim/Crazy Fit Massage though – this important up/down movement i publicly described as the most important movement for the musclestretch-reflex to occur.
Can anyone in this blog compliment the Vibraslim/Crazy Fit Massage for its functionality? Has anyone experienced any results?
Best Regards
Alex
Copenhagen, Denmark
Alex….
Maybe you want to spend time reading other articles on this site before you try to start a conversation.
Caution: Marketers are not welcome so statements like ..
“this important up/down movement I publicly described as the most important movement for the musclestretch-reflex to occur.” should come with a theory attached.
“In order to elicit a stretch reflex in the muscles, the major contributing factor to the training results that can be achieved with vibration platforms, the up-down movement is the most important. Most popular machines vibrate in three different directions: sideways (x), front and back (y) and up and down (z). The z-axis has the largest amplitude and is the most defining component in generating and inducing muscle contractions. Concerning the z-movements two principle types of systems can be distinguished: side alternating systems, operating like a see-saw and hence mimicking the human gait where always one foot is moving upwards and the other one downwards and systems where the whole platform is mainly doing the same motion respectively both feet are moved upwards or downwards at the same time (source: Abercromby AF, Amonette WE, Layne CS, McFarlin BK, Hinman MR, Paloski WH.: Vibration Exposure and Biodynamic Responses during Whole-Body Vibration Training, Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 Oct;39). Systems with side alternation offer a larger amplitude of oscillation and a frequency range of about 5 Hz to 35 Hz system the other systems offer lower amplitudes but higher frequencies in the range of 20 Hz to 50 Hz.”
I meant to say ” IS publicly described as the most important…”, not “I publicly” – my fault.
But Lloyd can you answer questions, because I am seeking professional help.
In defense of Alex, I think he made a typo and dropped the ‘s’ – i.e. “…is publicly described…”. Agree a reference would be handy, but I doubt he is a marketeer, just someone genuinly trying to make sense of it all – as am I!
Whoops, crossed over in the ether – sorry!
Sorry for sounding heavy handed , was just a warning shot in case you where about to start marketing…
A few points to ponder….
(a) If Amplitude does play the most important role in Vibration Training then why do I have such good success with 3mm and under ?
(b) Does jumping up higher always lead to a better action. Or is repeated control more important ?
(c) Any pivotal unit would outclass Powerplate for precise movement. As deliberate 3D vibration is not considered responsable.
(d) Vibra-Slim has always relied on stealing other peoples work to claim as their own. Even my writings that were on Lineal movement . I believe no studies they refer to can be trusted.
Having said that …
Any pivotal machine doing it job and used properly should give good solid results in time.
Alex and Michael
You might be interested in this article
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/02/pivotal-and-lineal-machines
Also, I will quote Lloyd Shaw, from an article on his company website:
“There are 2 catagories of machines available, PIVOTAL and LINEAL. Some companies produce both (usually Asian), but most choose one or the other. And no matter what the sales people tell you neither one is better than the other. They are different systems , used for different reasons.
Pivotal (See-Sawing) motion is great for bone degenerative diseases, incontinence, pelvic stability and some weight loss. And pain reduction. Fq. 0hz-35hz
Lineal (straight up and down under both feet) is also good for all the above, but its main purpose is just a good hard workout. Its pressure response in the muscle can be greater and hence can cause a greater anabolic boost that can change your BMR (resting metabolic rate) which is the key to long term weight loss.
A lighter unit can be used for rehab work. Higher Fq 38hz-50hz is advised for best results where the pressure in the Lumbar is decreased.
This is still only part of the answer to your questions as machines are made for Domestic, Professional and Commercial usage. Also there are qualities of machines depending on the brand design and manufacturer. You would be better guided if you say what results you want to achieve.
Hey Lloyd,
I have some very savy internet marketing skills. I can really expose these cheap companies… like vibratrim…vibraslim…crazyfit… and now slimvibes (slimvibes.com)… notice again the same machine.
Even Dr. Young, the Great Ph Miracle man, is promoting Vibraslim… makes me sick.
With your permission, can I use some of the information here to set up a buyer beware page…
I will start by targeting the above model pictured (and all companies selling it) on ALL related search keywords. Then we can go after others…
Does anyone know any other “labels/brands” this machine has (besides the ones I listed)?
Lets educate the world,
Bryant
Also,
Pivotal Machines are VERY effective for peripheral neuropathy and nerve regeneration.
My friend Yosef Johnson has a clinic in Muskegon called Balance In Life. He uses the Galileo 2000 (25-27 hz), 5 min 3x a week with his patients.
He has amazing proof with over 30 patients on reversing incontinence, neuropathy (diabetic related), and osteopenia. He has several years of experience working with pivotal and taught me a lot.
If you type in “whole body vibration” in youtube.com, you can watch my interview with him. Look for “Whole Body Vibration 1″, “Whole Body Vibration 2″ and “Whole Body Vibration 3″. (9 min each segment)
Lloyd, he is very open minded and would be someone good to work with on refining a pivotal safety protocol and plan. He’s a great researcher and is very careful to make sure people have correct placement (perfect symmetry about the pivot point).
He may be able to help open communications with the pivotal community since he knows all the researchers very well.
Bryant
Yes Bryant, you can quote my work if it helps educate the consumer .
I would like for the Pivotal companies to be in proper communication with me , as I find it hard to protect them otherise. An organised assult on the “fake” market would be far more effective , we can sort out our differences later.
Yes,
I am planning to put up a whole body vibration resource website with NO advertising or promoting of any specific brand.
I can easily put up an organized assault on the cheap lineal and pivotal from overseas. Give me a little time, as I need to have my website up and running first. I have some ideas I want to run past you.
My first target is the vibraslim/vibratrim/crazyfit/slimvibe
Then Soloflex WBV
Then Powerplate
After that we’ll see, possibly vibrafit (or any recommendations?)
With your permission, can I use some of the information here for educational purposes. I promise this site is not brand specific, only educational.
Thanks Again
Bryant Meyers
I can only give you permission to quote my work not others. So any article not done by me will need further permission.
(a) Make sure it is in keeping with the ideas we promote here.
(b) Please name me as author.
Lloyd why do the pivotal companies need to have proper communication with you?
You are very knowledgeable in the area of WBV but you didnt create the exercise so what makes you God of Vibrations.
Maybe they should have good communication with the Russian Cosmonauts im sure they have more experience.
And who madeit your job to protect them. who are you protecting them from? YOU?
Yes true , none of us here invented the base technology that is Vibration Therapy , the people that did have long since passed away so are in no position to help us.
What I am doing is to try and finish the project , take it to a Training realm and help produce an industry surrounding that.
Protection…
The fact is those companies that have been in the industry for years have failed to educate and hence help protect the consumer, with some actually looking the other way when unethical/unsafe things happen. No action taken , just lots of whinging behind closed corperate doors . Not good leadership skills in my book and no way to earn respect.
They seem to be unwilling or incapable of protecting themselves or anyone else so I am inviting them to join me . They can continue going it alone at their own risk.
MickeyB…
You dont want people to follow me and my work ?
Then put up a name and the reasons for them to follow someone else.
Or let me guess , you were just whinging ?
To Lloyd Shaw,
I’m a physiotherapist who’s using WBV at my clinic (fitvibe) & in the process to put together with my team a WBV book for medical & health care professionals. I’m a huge fan of WBV & believe in its positive use in medical field. I’ve been reading some of your comments & would like you to help me answering some questions please:
1- Most companies selling WBV claim “10mins on Vibration plate equivalant to 1hr conventional training”, On what research or theory this claim is based?
2- Do all vibration machines have different G-forces? if yes, then Does higher G-Force have a more positive result on effects of WBV?
3- Can we use WBV with for example on patient with healed/recoverd (6 months post-op) artificially replaced knees of hips? (I believe we can depend on each case!but interested to know your opinion)
4- Is there a comparison table on all current WBV machines & their differences in term of specs, quality, features …etc?
5- Do you know of any starting research on WBV? if yes, can you please list them?
Sorry to bombard you with all these random questions! I appreciate your help
Regards
Leon
Leon…
(1) This statement is ambiguous or downright misleading sometimes. Depending on your point of view. But it generally came from trainers trying out the original test models ( 100kg/ steel/ PowerPlate-VibroGym ) and coming to the same conclusion ” it feels like you have been doing weights for an hour”.
But some unit do not live up to that reputation.
(2) Units will have different G-Forces depending on the Fq. This can be calculated easily on paper, but again some units lose performance under weight so it can vary widely in “real” terms. Tests need to be done to determine this.
A higher G-force is not always needed to gain the best response and is not the only way to produce pressure in a movement. You need to ask a few questions first.
(a) Why do you want the movement and pressure ?
(2) Is it safe ?
Eg. You would not directly put the same amount of energy into the spine as you would the legs .
(3) I would not put someone on a standard vibration training device with artifical knees or hips. Too much weight causing too much pressure. In my opinion side bars are a must .
(4) No reliable/impartial comparison table exists. I will be working hard to get this done in 2008.
(5) Most research at the moment seems sub-standard. Very generic and missing too many details for my liking . I hopefully get proven wrong on this point soon.
Well it’s been a while since I read this forum but today – Thanks for the laughs, MikeyB.. Russian Cosmonauts have more experience of wbv than Lloyd??? Hahahahahaha. Their experience was short term and long ago now.
What about all the other designers and manufacturers of wbv platforms.. where are they and why haven’t they cared enough to give out advice and info over the past, shall we say, three years??? Do any other really knowledgeable people even exist?
If other designers and manufacturers cared about the end users of their machines at all, they would have spent time giving out helpful info, taking part in discussions and answering questions. Maybe they don’t know enough to even try! Almost every other manufacturer I’ve come across is just trying to sell machines as a business much more than as an aid to help people achieve fitness and good health.
I’d like to challenge other designers and manufacturers to take the time to put up info and especially to answer health/safety queries, not to just push their specific brand of machine. Lloyd’s machines aren’t even available in the countries of most people who ask questions on here.
How can he be the god of vibrations? Because he’s the ONLY person who lives the wbv designer/manufacturer life every day. And yes, he would protect a person from his own machines if he knew they would be detrimental to that person’s good health. You have no idea how strict he can be. In his studios you do what he says; Use the specific machine he tells you to use, and do the program his way. You don’t get choices to do what you feel is a good idea. I hated being told exactly what to do but now I know for sure that Lloyd does know what’s best..how? Because of the results I’ve had and continue to have!
How can he know so much about pivotal machines when his are lineal? because his first machine design was pivotal and because he’s made it his interest to know everything there is to know. That means I don’t have to try to understand the physics, math and biology involved. If anyone else has lots of knowledge, well why don’t they share it and benefit us all. I’m glad some others ( academics, sellers) do share info. There’s no doubt however that Lloyd knows whatever there is to know.
Nice idea Di……
but they have shown they cant see past the next sale or grant , asking them to start working every day now for some respect they “might” get in 3 yrs , I think is a little too much.
But we live and hope.
And why do I bother ? This from my website (11/07) after I helped PowerPlate , which I will always regret…..
“I have a plan , to help lead the industry through innovation. Make alliances with like minded companies , and regulate it from within. And make no mistake , I have taken it as part of my resposability to clean up the industry so we can move forward.”
Nothing has changed for me.
Mikey, I fought against Lloyd being “god of vibrations” even more than you do. I spent hundreds of hours researching other writings and other people’s studies, both academic and anecdotal. I visited other branded studios. It must look like I just back whatever Lloyd says but that’s only because I have never been able to find him wrong and I have tried!
I now fully appreciate the need for specific machines that perform to specs for the purpose they were designed. Plus the absolute importance of being in perfect position on the machines. This is easily achieved by using a machine brand that’s trustworthy because the info is available and proven (oh and being able to talk with the designer is a big plus as I am inquisitive and annoying!).
Also for safety of use, I’ve learnt that having an Instructor who knows how to get the User into correct position and makes them maintain correct position throughout the duration gives me confidence of the safety and the efficacy of the program and machines.
I’m not saying that Lloyd’s is the only brand that is any good. Just saying that he’s definitely worth listening to and he makes himself available to give info and advice. Who else does that on such an open basis?
I’m working in a different sector of the health and fitness industry and I can see how complementary wbv and other forms of exercise can be. I see guys (and girls) every day who would benefit from adding wbv to their program. It works in complementary yet a different way to other resistance and cardio training.
MikeyB, Are you either feeling threatened by the wbv industry as a whole or you have some problem with Lloyd. Go hard, Mikey. I did and now I have to admit Lloyd does know it all and what he doesn’t know he will find out or design himself. *laughs* I’m still trying to prove him wrong on any small point just for the satisfaction but alas, it isn’t so. You still haven’t made a time to meet up and try out some machines. I know you’ve been to another studio and had questions that weren’t fully answered first visit so why not ask again.
Dear Loydd:
How about the ‘k-1 Platinum’ by Aestetic MD? Is it ‘real” or ‘Memorex’? Honestly, it seems too good to be true…let me know what you think, t.
A basic Pivotal machine that should do the job for a home user , but a few concerns with the company selling it.
(1) Their own Doctors warn against unsupervised use , but they sell them to the public anyway.
(2) They heavily promote special diets and HRT to give results. Which is not needed with a decent unit .
(3) They say you should never do Lineal vibration , but use well known tests from Lineal machines to sell results.
The machine may be ok to purchase , but I would not trust any information attached to it.
This from our auction site here in N.Z. from the sellers of Crazy-Fit , Vibra-Slim etc…
7 bolikon and crazy fit massage units selling cheap. Some are noisy. Some have buttons playing up etc. Would need technical knowledge to know how to fix. Between the 7 units, there should be a way to have at least a few running effectively.
NOTE: This would only be suitable for a technical type of person
Crazy fits were selling for $895 each this time last year. Good profit potential!
NOTE: Pickup only
Happy Bidding!
I know another name for the VibraSlim it is called “The Tone In Ten” http://www.toneinten.ca/home.php. They are separte distributors.
I am reading your site for the first time. I want to buy a WBV unit. I was using the Proellixe with a trainer I injured my back severely this past year –and I became intrigued with the technology. I would like to purchase a WBV for the home so my family could use it. My son for strength and training, my daughter for weight loss and toning and me for health reasons to increase my bone density and improve my back strength. I am on a limited budget -$1500. I was going to buy the Slimvibes, but now I am not so sure. Why do you not like this? Do you know what type of machine this is- lineal or pivotal. The more I study the less I know and understand. I thought that one machine could do it all- I guess the marketing really is deceptive. Please advise me on the best home based machine. TY
Cheers Marge in Canada.
It is a Pivotal machine and the mistrust of companies dealing with that product comes from a multitude of angles…
(1) Zero understanding of vibration training ( other peoples work was stolen to sell equipment).
(2) Unacceptable breakdown rates.
(3) PYC Int. Inc , the company that makes it posing as other companies .
(4) Unit costs importers $125 U.S. to buy.
None of this adds up to a company you would use. My advice would be to hold onto your money untill we sort them out.
Hey Lloyd,
Crazy fits are going for $199 on ebay here in the USA…
Wont be long before you will be able to buy a unit at Walmart for less than $100.
Proof is in the pudding as they say…
I have a Vibra-Slim ( Crazy-Fit etc….) machine in my studio right next to my machines. It is the $1400 unit so is top of the line for PYC Int ( China) And I am going to invite my experienced customers to try the basic poses . Either 2 things will come of this.
(a) They are telling the truth and it will compare directly with my machines , in which case I will put an honest review on this site. Alot of my customers already read this so I will not be able to lie .
(b) The machine will be found to be a fake.
Can it be compared if it’s a pivotal machine? Completely different experience I would think although I have only tried one pivotal (December 2006) and it was that brand but I think it was a cheaper unit.
How would it work for rehab for Achilles tendon strain? Yes or no?
Playing Devil’s Advocate here but I think your regular customers will be biased so it will be hard to get a comparison. The opposite trial would be interesting – If someone comes into your studio that already uses a vibra-slim machine, put them on it and then on a vibra-train. Now that would make a very interesting comparison!
No I do not believe it is a fair comparison , but I am not the one saying they are the same thing .
The manufacturor is still using my companies name Vibra-Train to sell its product.
“Welcome to the website of VIBRA-TRAIN The crazy fitness massage Specialists.”
The machine will be going to various trade shows as well with copies of my plageriarized website as part of the ongoing educational process needed to protect everybody .
I will let the public decide how bad they really are.
Got to love the caution notice on the front though…
” Dont put the finger or any eyewinker in the gap in case of any risk”
Good solid advice for most things in life.
Lloyd, Di, et al….
Seems to me the real question is….
Do you Pineapple?
http://www.pineapple.la/
Very sharp website. Love the videos BUT, I’m sick of all the sexism dammit. I want to see chicks on vibration platform videos! (:
Levity aside, what are all your thoughts? I’ve never seen some of the platform movements so slow before(with the visible eye) and at such amplitude.
I think they are made in China-which is a no-go in my book- but hey, it’s not like it’s toothpaste or toys or food/pharma products, so maybe it will escape all the lead and toxins that seem part of the bargain for doing business there…I’ve got an open mind.
On first looks though it does look interesting. What I’m wondering is if the forum thinks my “interesting” is their “gimmicky”. Thanks Folks.
KG
There is a place for that type slow repetitive kenetic rebalancing training” in Therapy and as long as certain safety principles are being followed I will not give Nick a hard time.
Looking at specs for the pineapple machine, is there any risk training on a lineal machine with a hertz rating of 5-30 and the amplitude at 1mm?
From a theoretical point of view yes , but not everybody is going to stick to the theory and the “short term exposure” arguement can always be used to try and justify variations . I believe we will see units running out of the normal range more often.
I do not agree with this but hope….
(a) That the persons responsable is telling the customers it is experimental and may not do the same thing as what standard Vibration Training does.
(b) Is not lying about the FQ ( like PowerPlate did ).
This will at least offer the consumer a chance to hit the net and do some reseaech for themselves.
I will not be kind to those who fail to do this.
The up dated Pineapple website is a good look except for the annoying intro and that Nick seems to forget to update it regularly (last news is dated October). I find the whole Mind, Body, Spirit emphasis amusing even though I know they are all affected by whatever exercise we do.
I can’t find the page that used to tell me that pineapple will rejuvenate my sex life but it does tell me that pineapple will automatically create a Zen-state in my brain so I guess that transcends any earthy desires! (no more videos of chicks on wbv platforms, guys)
About Pineapple machines. I haven’t a clue so wont comment. Have read the specs and watched videos before. They are too different to any I’ve tried and I hope to get opportunity to try them one day. Very expensive in $US.
You want girls in machnies ? Heck the Fit-Vibe soft Vibra-Porn ad is going to keep me amused for years.
But then I dont get out much.
The fit-vibe youtube was amazing…in so much that, it wasn’t meant to be a parody. But the Barry White soundtrack?!? Wow. They can’t seriously hope to sell those things with that.
I wanna see the fitvibe girl…..
Pineapple!
About The Vibra-Slim/Crazy Fit Machine.
Lloyd, as you know Greg tried it on Thursday night when you were out of the studio. He hoped it might help with a sore calf muscle and says it did have a massaging effect on it. He says he feels very unsure of the machine though and isn’t willing to use it regularly because of the up/down effect which is not like walking although it is promoted as such. Walking is on a level (relatively) surface where one leg is lifted up and forward and put down, not one leg up and the other down below the pivotal surface. He says he doesn’t like running on the camber of the road and this was similar although alternating. Also as he has no serious info about the safety and long term effects of the machine he’ll decline to use it again. He’s getting excellent results using the vibra-train lineal machines.
Greg’s comments do sound biased as he has been using lineal vibration but I waited 3 days before asking him to comment. He neither liked nor disliked the “feel” of pivotal vibration but he only did varying squat positions and only for maybe 5 minutes max. I hope we can get him to do a full program and get his comments as he is not so biased (in that he hasn’t read much of the information available) that he would automatically choose one machine type over another. There’s no way he would get the muscle strength buildup on a pivotal machine that he needs for major running events but as we have a few months until next events he might be willing to use the pivotal machine for a month trial.
Lloyd,
I appreciate your blog as there is a myriad of information available. I am an academic based at the University of Newcastle, and thought you might be interested to know that I am in the middle of conducting a literature review on WBV research. Am planning to produce the report sometime in the New Year if you are interested based on a limited review of studies.
1. I do have a question about machines though, which I know little about. My understanding from reading your blog is that lower amplitudes 3-5mm is sufficient to produce results, and that hz above 25 are desirable to fatigue/tone muscles etc. Is my understanding accurate?
2. how does the number of watts of a motor affect performance. For instance, I have seen a machine with 140 watt motor, amplitude 3-5mm, and 26-62 rps (hz). I have also seen a machine with a 450 watt motor, 10mm amplitude, and 13-35hz. Both are lineal platforms. Can you comment on these specifications?
3. does revolutions per second mean the same as hz?
e.g. 2500rps = 42hz?
Thanks
okay I want to see the answer to 3.
r/min or per sec is a rotational measure whereas hz relates to wave or sound measurement but are they the same when related to wbv?
I guess for your research you need to break down the force of the machine platform into components.
Chris will you please tell me what “literature review on WBV research” means. Are you reviewing the literature or the actual machines? Sorry if this is a “dumb” question but I really don’t understand.
Chris…..
(1) Yes , you can actually get results under 1mm. But that is particular to the design.
My cut off point for Hz settings in regards to a safety program for the average population is 38>.
Note: This takes into account the resonance factor that applifies the vibration into the spine. In my opinion the risks outweight the benefits going too low and is just plain annoying to the average user.
I do believe it has a place in an athletics program.
(2) The Watts of a motor does play a role in the overall effect of a unit. But again the designer must have a complete equation in mind or the power can be easily wasted ( so many factors involved in this point alone it needs an entire book devoted to the subject ).
Quite often the best use for more power is to ensure very little drop off occurs if the machine is stressed by weight. Or again the machine can become unstable/dangerous or basically useless.
In my opinion of both the particular specs you gave me…..
(a) 140w sounds ok if used effectively. And the fact it has a wide range is fine. I would really need to see the design of the machine to tell you more.
(b) Sounds like a sports specific machine , and should be used in a build up to an event. Not regular training.
(3) Yes RPS / 60 = Hz
If you are doing a review on other academics work in this field , I hope you take time to note how many have trusted companies to supply the specs of a unit , found out later they have been lied to , putting both the validity of their work and reputation at risk.
This has not been a mistake , it has been intentional.
Di
I am reviewing some of the academic literature (specific studies that they have been doing).
Lloyd
With regards to the provision of accurate machine specs by manufacturers to researchers. I have noted in some of the research that the specific brands of the machines has been named in the research which is a bit dodgy given that research can be severely compromised by “alliances’. I am more interested though in the methodological details (e.g speed of vibration, frequency and duration of treaments) and outcomes of the studies. Most importantly though, the consequent conclusions that can be made for the average user/purchaser of WBV. My concern is that there are so many false, misleading, and sensational claims made by people who have a vested interest in promoting a marketing message, that consumers may be being duped. It also seems apparent to me that there is much to be learned about the finer aspects of this technology and its effective application. There need to be independent people with no vested interest (supposedly like academics) carrying out and reporting research. My instinct tells me that those manufacturers/retailers who adopt a more educational approach are less likely to be misleading consumers, especially if their claims are more or less understated.
By the way. My email address is:
christiaan.mccomb@newcastle.edu.au for those that are interested in what I am doing.
Regards
Christiaan
there is another knock off “Vibro form” advertised at 1095.00 (after heavy discounts), but if you look at the picture illustrated on the form it is a “Crazy fit Massage” the company flogging this off is called International Global Concepts. I have just priced, the Crazy fit Massage machine in another location for 300.00 Australian.
Kind
regards
Liss
Yes, that brand has been mentioned before. You are right. Buyers, both for home use and studios, need to be very careful and find out all the info before they buy.
Anyone who has been ripped off can follow the help advice in this article
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/12/what-are-you-rights-when-purchasing-vibration-machines
My best advice is no matter what you are looking at. Buy it from someone with a premises, not some shopping mall stand or internet site.
Another super dodgy statement from the distributors of these types of units.
“Instead of spending 2 hours training, you can now get the same effect in just 10 minutes with the new YO-LIFE exercise and massage system.”
Plastic Pivotal machine from China !!!
Even on the best platform I can build ( cost me 17K+ ) I would not even make a claim like that.
The sellers of VibraSlim in the U.S. are e-mailing everybody to warn them of their intention to…..
” vigorously pursue legal proceedings for trademark infringment and damages “.
This from a company that found it acceptable to steal other companies work to launch their site in the first place ?
And the AVFTA who was also caught plageriarising others works supports their company. Super !!
We have asked for the trademark certs to be sent , all can see if they are telling the truth this time.
A quick search of a USA and Canada trademark register didn’t find the name VibraSlim as WBV but maybe I looked in the wrong place. I did find a Baldwin guitar called Vibraslim in the 1960′s (probably not tm though). Then I found a tm for VibraSlim belonging to a dietary supplement co for protein shakes, drinks and powders, live since 2003.. Lloyd do VibraSlim actually have a TM in USA and Canada. In Canada I found an abandoned tm from the supplement company
So far my investigations show nothing , just like PowerPlate and their “Acceleration Training TM”
Typical marketers , all talk , no action.
PowerPlate were very careful in their use of TM though.. TM actually has no real legal standing. It just means a mark or name that is being used by a company.The mark may be in the process of becoming a Registered TM or maybe just being used unregistered. There is a common miscomprehension that TM means Registered TradeMark but it doesn’t. The designation for that is R. So TM after a word or mark maybe a Registered or non registered mark. It’s up to the reader to check up if necessary. It’s very typical marketing to use this half-truth – TM – as suggestive of a Registered Mark.
Typical of a company like Powerplate.
Nothing real , just lots of hot air and plastic.
The company selling the equipment in the article at the start of this blog now has on its website….
” BEWARE of Chinese machines, they will fall apart”
They are the same people that supplied Chinese made units for extreme prices.
They plan to release a new machine called the “EuroPlate ” , to feed off the anti-Chinese backlash they have helped create.
With regards to this article, I’d just like to make a comment about a recently purchased vibration platform I purchased through a very well known internet/phone mail order company in Australia (Globalshopdirect). The Power Pulse cost around $1,300 (AUD) and came with a 30 day trial period.
I used the machine regularly (generally 3 times a day for 10 minutes, virtually every day of the week) and noticed quite good improvements in tone and comfort (I suffer from neck pain).
However, after about 4 months, the machine just suddenly stopped working (while I was on it!)… and when I turned it on a few times again thinking it may have just been a glitch, the circuit blew.
I don’t understand all the ins and outs of WBV completely, but my own experiences with it have really reinforced the idea that this technology actually works!I don’t understand all the ins and outs of WBV completely, but my own experiences with it have really reinforced the idea that this technology actually works! I’m now shopping around for a new machine (which is how I stumbled across this forum!), but can only give this statement of advice:
If you’re happy to spend less on a machine, that’s great! But be prepared for the plain and simple fact that to have such a low price, the quality of the machine itself is lowered. It won’t last you forever, but it’ll do the trick!
HOWEVER, if (like me) you’re wanting something that will last a lot longer than a few uses, and will be a long term piece of quality equipment, don’t expect to get that from something that’s simply not built to endure it. If you want long term, be prepared to invest the money, because it will be worth it!
This isn’t a slight on WBV at all – I’m all for it! I’m simply saying that you get what you pay for. And if what you’re after is something simple, by all means, go for the cheaper models – just don’t expect them to last forever!
)
Please read this article:
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/12/what-are-you-rights-when-purchasing-vibration-machines
Also, although Globalshop direct offer only a 30day right of return I think you will find that your State law will have a “sale of goods act” or something similar. 4 months is not long enough for your machine to last. Please contact the company and ask for a full refund. I looked at the shop website and they don’t seem to be offering any guarantees of quality BUT they do have to comply with local laws.
Thanks for that. But unfortunately I have already made over 15 calls to the company (as the machine is still under warranty) only to be told that I would need to pay for the freight back before I could claim my warranty, and that if I left my name and number someone would call me back with the return details (not that I was willing to pay to send it back when the warranty still existed!). Needless to say I still haven’t been able to speak to anyone at the company, and when I do have my calls answered, it goes no further than “leave your name and number”, despite everything I tell them.
Don’t worry, I have reported them to Fair Trading. I have no doubt the money will eventually be refunded.
Kiwis prepared to act on counterfeit exercise equipment …..
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0803/S00118.htm
Customs Acting Manager of Investigations Dave Meredith says counterfeit goods like this are usually sold in New Zealand shops and over the internet.
“It’s also important to note that these fake goods are poorly constructed and could harm unwitting users,” says Dave Meredith. “Counterfeit products can pose a real danger to the New Zealand public, as well as damaging the reputations of legitimate businesses.”
To date, all the intercepted counterfeit exercise machines came from China.
I just sent an e-mail to Richman And Buthman Enterprises asking them if the below is an accurate sttaement.
“These WBV machines are designed and manufactured by a U.S.company”
http://www.wholebodyvibrationmachine.com/benefits
If they are in fact “made in China” I believe this is misleading at best , why would a company hide the whereabouts of its manufacturing plant and instead “suggest” they are made in the U.S , unless they are embarrased with the truth.
This is an answer to an e-mail I recieved asking why Vibration does not equal Vibration Training.
Here it is agian…..
Its not the type of motor that makes a Vibration Training platform , as there are a number of mechanical systems that produce an up and down effect. If any company says they have a patent on this technology , they are dreaming.
It is the nature of hyper-gravity training and the force that is required that is the definition of what we do and where the understanding of all principles becomes hard . Incorperating those principles into a machine , without compromise is even harder.
Hard work is not for everybody , so by definition only a few people will ever succeed at this.
Vibration Therapy and Vibration Training machines are not the same thing. I know I design both.
Vibration Therapy units are cheap to build and hence why they are favoured by Chinese manufacturors and importers. Do you know how cheap it would be if I decked out all my studios with therapy units , I would save a fortune, so why dont I do that ?
One reason , I would be charging for a service that my machines could not provide.
Note: Real therapy units and programs are very good and based on science , but are having their reputation destroyed by those who want to flog them off as training devices.
The e-mail also infers I should just tell everyone , everything I know , my answer to that…
I have used every piece of knowledge I have gained in my life to write my theory and incorperate them into my engineering. With only small amounts of information being released to date , allowing the industry to grow one step at a time.
Note: Pretenders in this market stand out like a sore thumb to me and I dont mind giving them a hard time over it. As I hate lazy people.
The reason they need to pretend is because they are only jumping into this market now , no background interest in this field means they are years behind in base knowledge on every level , something I cannot do anything about and something that will always give them away.
Then you have the other side , academics so caught up in one area of this science , it misses the fact this needs to be an industry to become anything at all.
I have released enough info to protect consumers and get them to ask questions , that is my job.
A polite request…
Could consumers please read the articles under “topics” before asking questions.
Or we risk just repeating the same subject matter.
these “Crazy Fit” looking machines are now selling on eBay for about $150-$400 USD plus shipping of $70-$160 for US delivery. the claim a 1.5 hp motor, 1cm amplitude and a bunch of frequencies.
Question:
Is there more than just power, amplitude (length of vibration hopefully measured in at least the vertical plan) and frequency to get the health/ training benefits?
Hi Kim Bothwell, If you really want a Crazy Fit machine I suggest you buy one that’s not new. You will find many that have been used only a few times and then are being re-sold. Of course you will have to ask yourself why are they they being re-sold so quickly? Do they not perform as the User expected?
Please Read the articles on this site about these machines and about the differences between pivotal (see-saw) and lineal vibration machines before you choose to buy and if possible visit a studio or showroom to try some for yourself.
You need to carefully compare the machines that are for sale (if you intend to buy for home use) with your needs and what you want to gain from using a machine ie general fitness, sport fitness, rehab from injury etc. You can learn a lot from reading the articles and posts on this site.
Is there more than just power, amplitude and fq? well yes of course – even these have to work together to give the desired vibration and that’s where some machines fail – they simply don’t perform to their stated specs. Some even under-perform when the user is above an “average” weight.
And then..
there’s the program – the set of positions that the User executes on the machine platform – This is an essential component when looking at health/training benefits.
In México this crazy fit is known as aparato multimasajes reductivos and it costs 510usd, as vibrogym home unit and it cost 856usd, vibrazone in 650usd, sky dancer in 1100usd or power plate fit massage.
Kim,
My experience trying 5 different pivotals including the noblerex k1, vibrslim/trim/crazyfit/slimvibes, galileo 2000 (and two others I dont know the brand names) is that the specs provided (amplitude, freq, and power) dont take the place of experience. And I have come to find out through my own testing that they are not always accurate (vibraslim for example doe NOT have a freq range 30-60hz as stated).
The Galileo no doubt is the strongest and perhaps best built of all the pivotals I have experienced. But it is expensive, noisy and perhaps has levels of intensity not needed for the average person.
The K1 in my direct experience has a stronger vibration and more tangible benefit than vibratrim, vibraslim, and the other two pivotals I have personally tried.
Personally I prefer pivotals especially the galileo and K1, but thats just my own experience… find yours
Do your own research, talk to different people and wbv companys, read posts on this wonderful forum and other fitness and osteoporosis forums…
Definitely dont take anyones word as gospel (certainly not mine…lol), try to locate different machines in your area to try out, or go to a fitness trade show where you could try many.
This is a big investment and noone knows your body like you,
Thats my two cents worth
I hope it makes sense
Bryant
It would seem along with Power-Plate , Fit-X ( made in Korea ) distributors in Europe are still changing the “country of origin” in its advertising.
We already had the distributor of the Fit-X ( X-Fitness Systems Ltd ) here in N.Z. claim to be Vibra-Train at one stage.
They must do some kind of screening process to make sure you are dodgy enough to become a distributor.
Birds of a feather…..
There are a lot of unflattering comments here regarding Vibraslim but I’m interested in whether it’s products have actually moved on. I’m looking at getting a machine, say 80% therapy and 20% training (if such a breakdown is of any sense!).
The following website was a useful introduction to some key principles. Now having seen some earlier model Vibraslim Euro pictures elsewhere, it’s clear that the ‘cheap copy’ pictures on the site match the early Vibraslims. So I can understand that Vibraslim must have at some point been doing the cheap import stuff:
http://www.vibrationexercise.ca/vibration-exercise-machine-buyer-guide.htm
But the above website also gives emphasis to Vibraslim as NOT being in the cheap copy bracket. And when you check Vibraslim’s site itself, it seems like they have directly addressed the kind of build concerns that the vibrationtraining.net website has been discussing:
http://www.myeuroplate.com/
My points are:
1. It may be true that if a company starts out dodgy or in some sense unprofessional then it loses credibility forever. Or for a very long time. But if we put that to one side, does the Vibraslim Euro now being described look like the same machine as the original Vibraslim Euro that provoked the uncomplimentary attention? Does it deserve a second chance? I’m not being rhetorical here, I’m genuinely asking for people’s (particularly Lloyd’s) opinion.
2. I’m in San Francisco. I can find virtually no fitness locations in the city that have any focus on vibration based equipment. A couple of gyms have Power Plates, but no other type. So my first direct experience of this type of equipment may well be a unit that I buy. Not ideal, but I’m probably not the only one in this boat.
3. There are plenty of machines out there for $300 or so. I’m not interested in those. And there are the Galileos, Hypergravitys and so on that are $4000 and above. I can’t afford those. $1700 (the Vibraslim Euro price) is already a lot of money to spend on any single item. But it represents a *potentially* valid compromise based upon various claims and descriptions on the Vibraslim website (above). I know that I’m effectively asking you something that as a professional you can’t really answer, which is, does the Vibraslim Euro as it’s now made look like it’s worth $1700? It’s a naive question – I’m in software and I wouldn’t expect to say that one application is worth $100 or $1000. But it’s an honest question, and you know enough to give some substance to a response.
Thanks for any comment you can give and for all of the facts that you’ve put forward here. Though there are countless people selling vibration machines in the US, there seems to be virtually no knowledge of them in the general fitness arena, so it’s hard to get direct intelligent opinion.
Your comment about a company being so dodgy to begin with can it ever be trusted , is a good question.
So the first question should be ” is the Europlate built in Europe ” as the name suggests. Or are they still being dodgy and misleading ? Ask them.
But to give them a chance , lets have a look at their new site…
(1) They warn people of Chinese machines ( but they are the biggest sellers of such equipment ) Did they refund all those people they sold the Chinese units too ?
(2) They claim to be the makers of the product , they claimed this with the last unit they sold . It was not the truth.
(3) Doctor approved ? ( they put this on the cheap Chinese unit they sold before ) Same Doctor.
(4) They warn people not to use Lineal machines , but are happy to use reports , sports stars endorsements and media coverage from Lineal units to get sales.
(5) They promote going up to 50Hz of their machine ( so they are still very uneducated and hence dangerous )
(6) “VibraSlim has spent years researching and developing vibration training machines and further perfecting training techniques so that your results are the best possible.”
This is simply not true , they are just sellers of imported units. They had to steal material for the launch of their companies website. Researcher and developers do not need to do this.
So to recap…
Basically nothing on their “new” site is the truth so it would seem they are still untrustworthy.
Get back to us in regards to the “Euro” claim.
I also think the actual people behind the dishonesty should be exposed , so the consumer can choose to deal with them or not.
The above company is one of those I am going to target as their offending has been non-stop and shameless .
I will be naming the ringleaders of such companies in the future on my new site.
So the right people can be blamed.
Straight from the myeuroplate.com website:
“We do not guarantee or warrant the quality, accuracy, completeness, timelines, appropriateness or suitability of the information provided. We expressly disclaim all warranties, representations and conditions regarding use of this site or the information provided.”
I know U.S. and Canadian Law differs from N.Z. and Australian but I would be very concerned if I read a similar disclaimer on a local site. They will say this disclaimer isn’t about their product but hey, it seems they can get away with saying anything at all.
Robert, You are in Software so you know that value is in the product doing what it says it will do and also specifically for what the end user wants/needs.
Also, that value is not necessarily dictated by price, just as it states on the EuroPlate site, although with software we are talking intellectual ability and time, like open source and excellent free applications (open office or picasa) whereas mechanical and electronic machines have a cost of parts factor and quality made parts tend to cost more (which I know doesn’t make up the whole equation but is a point to note).
You do need to also look further at the “types” of vibration machines available – 80% therapy 20% training – If you say what you need therapy for then you can be more acurately guided. Overall, if my first experience of a health fitness equipment/machine was going to be buying it “blind”, I’d buy locally made. Is this what vibraslim are claiming? They are saying Not made in China but where is the machine made? Not in USA?
Please don’t think I am being overly down on your research so far. It’s just that I have tried quite a lot of machines in studios, showrooms and homes and some are just scary. I have come away hurt several times – not good hurt as in sore muscles but with aches (severe backache, aggrevation of my knee injury) and neck pain. I suggest If you buy of the net make sure you have complete right of return and full money back option or a 14day trial before paying. Is there no way you can stretch to near $4000 for a good machine. Also please ensure that you are within the weight restriction for the machine as I see that the Europlate restriction is 120kg/275lbs
The “Europlate” is made buy PRO-SUPRA INTERNATIONAL CORP which is based in Tiawan with factories also in China.
Cant these guys tell the truth even once ?
I am getting really tired of Lloyd Shaw and his SPAMMING of this message board with his constant disparaging remarks about all other sellers of machines except for of course his machines that he peddles.
Why is he even allowed on here still. OH maybe he runs the blog maybe???
Lisa, your comments are ill informed, there are other brands that Lloyd Shaw supports, even those that are in opposition to him.
You are really tired of someone dedicated to stopping consumers being ripped off and harmed by people who have no other motive than to put profits ahead of people? Thats hard to comprehend.
All power to Lloyd Shaw and others who expose these frauds. You should be congratulating him and encouraging others to have the steel to support him
Lisa,
Llyod does not sell his machines to anyone, if you are doubting this, call him and try to purchase one.
Lloyd has helped this industry far more than damaging it. There are many, many machines being sold out there right now making false claims and promises.
Lloyd identifies these fraudulant companies and exposess them.
Mary G….
I only go after the dishonest companies. And I point out how they are being misleading so there can be no confusion. If it is not the truth and I have gotten it wrong , they can always get on here and defend themselves.
But they wont , because apart from being lazy (which is why they steal others work ) they know I am right.
So they do what all con artist do , run away.
Sorry I meant Lisa G…
Notice how none of these people who come on to complain about my actions use their real name.
I use my name because I stand by what I say.
If any of you want to help them post the below statement on any forum you can find…
Be wary , the new Europlate is made in Taiwan. And sold by the same company supplying cheap machines from China before.
But this from their new “Euro”plate website….
Our vibrating machine is NOT made in China. BEWARE of Chinese vibration exercise machines, they will fall apart.
Talk about dodgy , do not trust these people.
I have just found another example of the lack of integrity of the VibraSlim group. While I realise that Domain names are available to any who buy them..
Alas, the website we are on now also has a NZ version as many already know (hoping to get search visitors onto that site instead of this.. and though not their fault, google warned me it was distribiting a computer virus today so please don’t visit it right now)
and now I found also found a .us version of vibrationtraining (registered Dec 07). It is a one page advertisement for europlate and VibraSlim with links to both. It’s sad that they stoop so low to get business and to detract from this informative forum site.
Dont worry Di…
They have failed to atttract attention to their other sites before , because they are simply too lazy and basically useless at what they do .
That is why they have to resort to being dishonest in the first place.
We effected their sales last time , and with more effort and greater readership of the forums , we will again. Remember 70% of the readers of this forum are from the U.S.
These companies have to realize that Google picks up how many times they are mentioned and alot of the searches under their name come straight here. Over a period of time they cant beat that.
Lloyd, these people are desperate … or they genuinely think that spamming other sites with their advertising websites is actually good business practice.
I have had an article I wrote about Vibration Training for a Directory site, edited (spammed) by someone associated with Europlate/VibraSlim. It was an informative general article not naming companies or machine brands at all. I’d used some of your material which you gave me persmission to use at the time so I had a link to your website BUT not only to yours. I’d also referenced to other sites.
After my article, In the list at the end of the page, as it is a Directory, there were pages to sites I don’t even like but that’s okay and it was okay for VibraSlim etc to be linked there BUT to spam my article is absolutely not on! I have spent two hours trying to retrieve my password for the directory site and am reverting the changes. I will leave in one of the new clickable links as it’s to studies on Vibration Training and as much as I very dislike VibraSlim group, that change to the open article is acceptable and although I own the article it is allowed that others make small changes/additions to it. I am removing their blatant spamming/advertising though.
How many more times will this group of companies play dirty. Their new machine even seems kind of okay but their ethics suck!
Confirmation….
Europlate is built in Taiwan/China
Costs them….. $208 ( U.S.)
How much are they trying to charge …..$1699 (U.S.)
Just one of my posts in regards to “Europlate” being made in Asia , costing only $208 has been read 303,000 times already on another site.
That has got to effect sales.
” Dont be one of those people who end up coming back on to TradeMe or Ebay in 12 months claiming the cheap machine you brought is fantastic and gave results BUT you have to sell it because…
(1) You need the room.
(2) I have now joined a gym and dont need it.
(3) Is an unwanted birthday present .
Translated….. “It did not work and I want to sell it.” Do not short change your own health, pay the extra and have something work..
Another dodgy dealer to keep away from…..
http://www.mnleisure.com/how.html
Direct plagiarism from HyperGravity and they even had the cheek to put “Copyright © 2008 MN Leisure – all rights reserved” on the bottom.
We always have 2 issues here that serve as a warning with plagiarism
(1) They must be to uneducated to know what they are doing.
(2) They have no ethics.
Stupid and dishonest is never a good mixture.
On top of that I am informed they are selling those machines to businesses ?
Material was also stolen from Vibro-Gym , it would seem the entire site is a patchwork of other companies work.
Came accross this today, I like how they use “Read up on official DKN Studies”
If you actually review the studies many I have seen before, relate to various types of vibration both Pivotal & Vertical but none of the studies were done using “DKN” equipment.
http://www.hl4y.com/dkn.htm
Maureen……
Read some of the articles in “topics” on the right at the top of this page , it should answer your questions and give you the knowledge you need to buy a machine.
Bumping this up for Sophie who just phoned our office with some questions re: vitality600
Any other questions, feel free to contact us, or ask questions here, there are plenty of knowledgeable people who post here.
Cheers to Marge in Canada! We run a studio just outside of Calgary with Vibrogym Pro models which are lineal. I believe the Slimvibe is an oscillating. With the type of training you and your family are looking at it may be a challenge to find one machine to suit all your needs in the $1500 price range. If you want to chat email us at revibe@live.ca and we can suggest some Canadian distibutors for you.
Thanks Murray and Bree, from this site, you’ve saved me from two different lemons! I can’t believe how they can get away with it.
i’m still confused over hertz… the machine i’m interested in “hyper500″ highest frequency is 28hz but from what i’ve been reading here, it’s seems beneficial for some to go higher or is that just for supervised professional machines?
four people in my family plan on using my machine and we all have various reasons – some are weight loss, toning, arthritis and serotonin elevation, so i’m wanting a machine that covers most benefits.
if anyone has any knowledge, your opinions will be greatly valued.
thanks, sophie
Sophie…
Read some of the articles under “topics” at the top of this page to understand the difference in Fqs for Pivotal and Lineal machines. They have different rules.
Hi Sophie,
Typically,
Pivotal 5-30Hz & up to 13mm amplitude
Lineal 30-50Hz & up to 4mm amplitude
Thats quite generalised, so as Lloyd said, have a look through the articles here and you will find some more info.
Feel free to contact me through our website, and I will gladly point you to some more literature.
Thanks Lloyd and Murray. I get it now!
cheers, sophie
I am in BC Canada and have a friend who has been using a vibration machine in a spa and loves it…has lost 11 inches in a few months. I am house bound so can’t go out to a spa or gym and am trying to find a good one for my home for around $2000.00 Canadian or less (all I can afford). There are 2 that I have found selling in our area…the PowerPlate and PULSE TRAINER. http://www.eurosportfitness.com/products.php?cat=Cardio&scid=5 After reading many posts and articles it seems that the Power Plate isn’t a good one to buy, so would this other one be ok? I’m so confused…
Dawn…….
What articles have you read and what points are you confused about ?
Hi Lloyd, I’ve read so many articles in the last week on the internet saying one type of machine is better than the other that I just got confused on which is the best machine to buy here in Canada. I’m sold on the benefits of WBV but just not sure on what to buy in my price range. If could get out more I would try the various machines in gyms and spas in our small city but I can’t. I really can’t afford to waste money on junk so I guess I’m asking that someone here would just tell me what to buy in my price range. I’m an older lady on disability with Hep C and Chronic fatigue Syndrome and am out of shape. I have a treadmill and after a year am still only able to do half a mile a day. But I want to strengthen my muscles and was thinking of buying a home gym machine but when I went to the store the sales person said that a power plate would be better for me. My friend is using one at a spa (not Power Plate brand) and said it was very helpful to her. After all my reading this past week I’m sold on the technology, but just am confused on which brand to buy and don’t want to get ripped off.
Thank you so much for all the info that you are providing…
Ok the fact is you are not going to get a “Training” machine for that price . It has to be nearer the quality that your friend is using to give you pro-longed weight loss but they will give you some results .
You could pick up a decent Therapy machine for under $2000 . Which by the sounds of it is all you need.
The Pulse-Trainer is a good unit if available .
Proform ( you can order from Brookstone ) is selling a lineal unit called the Activator for $999 and will ship to Canada ( I just called to check ).
I know Sears Canada is selling the Power Plate My3 home unit for only $1999 now , but at that price its still a rip off . It only has 1 setting.
Hope this helps.
Yes it helps lots…thank you so much…there is a store in town selling the pulse trainer so I will go with that one…although the sales person didn’t really know much about it when my husband talked with him and that turned him off…
Yes, its a worry when the customer knows more about the product and training than the salesperson.
To make a point ask him if he knows how the treadmill works and offer to explain it to him if he doesnt.
Hello Dawn,
The Pulse Trainer is built with technology that I am not familiar with. Perhaps Lloyd can comment on their technology offering the possibility of two different vibration mechanism in one machine.
My concern is its range of amplitude max. 5mm makes this machine sounds powerful to me. However, it is small in size and weighs only 45 kg. It either do not generate much vibration energy (less amplitude that it claims especially with load) or it will dance around when it is switched on. Another point it disappointed me is that it does not provide information of its range of vibration frequency.
However, all the above negative comments from me are based only on reading their manuals.
You have to go trying it and other brands yourself in order to determine which one to purchase.
TC
Timothy…….
I have tested the machine and it is very safe. It is not a harsh vibration because the lineal drives provide a cushioning effect. It is not meant to be a powerfull machine.
It has limits built into the electronics that vary slightly with each amplitude to keep the machine and person safe.
But here are the basics…
Pivotal 15hz – 22hz
Lineal 25hz -45hz
Its only downfall is the “predicted” heat cutoff.
—————————————————–
Lloyd Shaw
November 22nd, 2006
… the heat generated would be of a major concern.
So you have a set g-force or overheating.
—————————————————–
That was in answer to a bunch of viral marketers from Turbo-Sonic on here saying that Lineal drives had no limitations.
In this model the cut off is approx 17mins of straight use. But seeing as the timer only goes to 10mins and its a home machine it should not be of concern.
PulseTrainer – from a User’s viewpoint
I’ve used a PulseTrainer twice a week for 6 weeks, setting 22Hz, 2mm for 10 minutes, standing upright with hands on the handlebar. I’m sure than anybody can do this. Other people use it at 4mm for 10 minutes. I’ve come from disliking the sensation of pivotal vibration to feeling comfortable on this machine. I don’t use the lineal settings as I use other machines. It has a stabilising foot and It’s never moved around when I’ve used it. I probably wouldn’t choose it if I wanted a lineal machine only but I definately recommend it for pivotal use and the bonus is that you can set it for lineal/vertical vibration as well.
Thanks for all the info and comments! We went to purchase one last night but got there a couple of hours too late to buy their last one…the salesman told us we could go to the competition and buy a PP or an Ironman….we decided to wait until they get more sometime in January…BTW, he said the Pulse Trainer was made in Taiwan…
FYI,
I Tested some of the “cheap” oscillating machines with a motion sensor that “claim” 0-50 hz, and they were no where near.
I think they were putting the Hz rating for the machine (AC outlet)…lol… seriously, the US standard outlet is 60 Hz but that is measuring the AC current from the Power Company. My tests show that cheap machines like crazy fit dont even reach 20 Hz in “mechanical” frequency. I find this humorous how misleading these companies actually are. In fact when a heavy person stands on these cheaper, the frequency can even go below 10 Hz (because of the cheap motor)… So the frequency seems to depend on the weight of the person also with these low end, cheap motor driven units.
My point with this post is that BEWARE of misleading specs on cheap imports.
Not even the Galileo or Vibraflex (Highest end Oscillating) goes up to 50 Hz.
Stand on a Galieo at 30 Hz and then turn a crazy fit/vibraslim/vibratrim up to their “so called” 50 Hz… NO WAY… You dont need a motion sensor…
And the Galileo is INCREDIBLY accurate with its frequency settings… you can actually dial in, say 27.1 Hz
So I guess the good news is that these cheaper units dont reach the high frequencies, the bad news for them is that the frequencies may actually be too weak with motors that “burn out” easily, especially for heavier users.
Lloyd,
I disagree with your recommended frequencies for pivotal. There is good evidence from Galileo/Vibraflex researchers and my friend Yosef Johnson (one of the top oscillating researchers) that 25-27 Hz is the “peak” zone. And anything above 30 Hz is dangerous.
My Friend Yosef works closely with some top researchers including Cardinale and has dozens of case studies with the Galileo. He always uses between 25-27 Hz for 3 minutes to 10 minutes 3x a week. Even with the Geriatric patients.
On a pivotal, you dont have to decrease the frequency to make it easier, you can simply put your feet closer together for less torque.
I think you need to reconsider recommending only 15-22 Hz, as there is good evidence to suggest 25-27 yields better results (on pivotal).
bryant
If you are talking about the above post , I did not suggest those Fq.
Read it again.
It is just the specs for that particular machine. It is limited to 15hz – 22hz . That companies own testing found it the most effective + the most comfortable during the trials in rest homes and physios. Considering it is going to be used by the public for therapy that combination is pretty damn relevant , don’t you ? I actually admire the fact they bothered to do this , some companies are too lazy or arrogant and its one of the reasons some machine look good on paper but feel crap in real life.
And I really wish you guys who like to name drop and quote people like Cardinales research , would also add in he is the…..
Head of Sports Science and Research of the British Olympic Association
Not the…
“HEAD OF DEVELOPING A PRODUCT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT TO GET ON AND PAY YOU FOR MORE THAN ONCE.”
Why don’t you ask your mate how much performance was lost at the slightly lower Fqs. It was negligible in every test I have read to date. Definitely not enough to compromise comfort for the sake of “peak performance” .
Its called “where the tire meets the road” and its the industries job to marry the science to the consumer. You cant get that from a book or some researcher who has never trained the public in their life.
Lloyd,
ok, I see, but I have seen you recommend a lower frequency range elsewhere (or at least a lower bound)
Yosef had quite a bit of “hands on” experience. Perhaps not as much as you on a day to day basis, but he worked with people that had
1) Osteopenia
2) Urinary Incontinence
3) Peripheral Neuropathy
4) and Geriatric Patients
He had folders full of case studies and even before and after bone density scans.
He worked in a professional clinic that had a Medical doctor on staff also.
So I think he is qualified to be considered an expert in the field.
And there is good evidence that 25-27 Hz is the “ideal” range for pivotal.
Yes you will benefit from slighty lower, but define slightly lower? If you are talking only one or two hertz, I agree that is negligible, but say 10 -15 Hz, that is on the low end. Not to say that you will not experience benefit, just not as much.
And as you know with pivotals, unlike lineal, the placement of the feet determines the amount of torque you experience. So having your feet nearly together, even at 25-27 Hz, is really easy. Place them further out, it becomes more challenging. The point here is you can work with foot placement to make the session easier or harder while maintaining the peak frequency range.
bryant
Bryant…… ( sorry folks for the following ramble )
My recommendations for Pivotal and Lineal “ideal” settings have always been outside the “experts” recommendations for the last 5 yrs. Were have you been ?
You cant compare some academic doing a set closed trial , only looking for a particular response to someone involved in the entire industry .
I have ….
(1) Designed my own machines based on new bio-mechanical principles ( 5 to date ).
(2) Developed programs keeping in mind with my own theories .
(3) Done my own tests and trials .
(4) Set up the worlds first dedicated Vibration Training studio and formed a chain of them.
(5) Write my own material from scratch.
(6) Trained tens of thousands of people personally from world ranked athletes to the elderly , I have seen more variations of afflictions that I can count.
All of this AGAINST the academics advice and using none of their work.
Did you read this…….?
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/04/increasing-bone-mass-density
12.6 Hz to increase bone mass recommended ?
Why was this , because they took into account the population most likely to use the equipment may be elderly and frail.
Another important point on the science of 27hz I have made before……
It has been understood for some time now the highest EMG readings are at 27Hz .
So what ? That just signifies peak activation of the muscle cells. No reason is given why that is the “best” for anything.
I have yet to see any “significant” muscle been built on any of the tests @27hz. If peak activation was all it took , why no actual visual muscle growth on these guys who have been using that Fq for years ?
I figured all that out years ago and solved the problem. Not only will it clearly show up on a BCA tests , but you will “see” the results.
Its like they all made a leap of faith on that whole 27Hz issue , not even a decent theory is offered up as why no muscle is developing.
I will tell you now , they are missing 90% of the education they need to move forward. And every day they stick to their textbooks they fall further and further behind.
Ok Lloyd,
I do appreciate your research. I share the noblerex k1 ( my site is http://www.myk1.com )and have gotten really great results.
The Amplitude is about 13 mm from low to high and the frequency ranges 7-28 Hz.
Its not as solid as Galileo/Vibraflex but for Under $5000 its the best pivotal I tested.
My question to you is, based on your experience, what frequencies are best for
1) Muscle Growth
2) Bone Density
and any other parameters you tested.
I am very open to hearing what you have to say and perhaps I can offer better recommedations for certain conditions.
But in defense of the 27 Hz Theorists, my friend Yosef had hands on results for bone density, peripheral neuropathy and urinary incontinence.
Though is depth of knowledge is not on par with your (especially in building the machines), there is no question it was working fabulously for those conditions using 25-27 Hz. He only researched those 3 conditions specifically.
Interestly, in his 6 month studies with bone density, at about 3 months the patients noticed a “decrease” BUT in every case after 6 months, the density increased and he has a 90% success rate reversing osteopenia (precursor to osteoporosis) COMPLETELY.
Perhaps he could have gotten even better results at lower frequencies, perhaps not, but I think further exploration is warranted by your findings and I will pass on to him what you are sharing here.
Thanks for your detailed response, it will be helpful to potentially many people
Bryant
What if I told you Fq had very little to do with the overall equation sometimes . In fact once you write the equation you can swap around the 9 basic principles and get a similar result.
And I still think you are missing the point about your mates tests ….
Its like looking at the rotation of a wheel as a car drives between to points , saying that because it got to its destination at exactly 27 rotations a sec ( which funny enough is the only speed you drove it at ) then 27 rotations is how fast all cars should drive at to reach their destination in “peak” time.
That is what you call a self fulfilling prophecy.
It shows a complete lack of understanding of the bigger picture. Different car , gas mileage , safety , price , suspension , visibility , cornering , tires , quality of petrol, clean spark plugs etc…
Think about this….
A car is not as complicated as the human body , so ask yourself do you really think the Fq of bumps on the platform we are going up and down on is all that’s effecting the outcome.
Maybe their are 9 ways to drive home , but some are safer and more comfortable than others.
Hi–I have been reading info on wbv equipment and am thoroughly confused. Do I want a pivotal or lineal? I thought I wanted a triangular oscillating one and then I read about one that went up and down, back and forth and side to side, but read that might do physical damage over time. My husband and I are in our 60′s. I have fibromyalgia and injuries have left bad knees and low back problems. Despite this, We used wbv equipment in a health club called 5R Health. It resolved a frozen shoulder for which surgery was prescribed, got rid of cellulite, increased my stamina and my blood work was better than that I had done 9 months prior to beginning exercise at the health club. To make a long story short, the health club went out of business and I can find no other club where i live using wbv equipment. I would like to get a home unit without spending a small fortune. For my
purposes, would I want a pivotal or lineal machine and how do I know which is which–just go by the Hz advertised? What is triangular oscillating? What is the difference between a therapy machine and a training machine? Is Lifespam more of a therapy machine? Their machine goes in 3 directions, so will it do damage to joints etc. over time? Can you recommend 2 or 3 companies or machines? I found that I can’t trust most of what is presented on the internet. Even one supposed wholesale company sold a
machine and when I contacted the home company was told that they don’t make wbv equipment, so someone was “stealing” the name of this company. I can’t find a website with a price for vibro gym, so I don’t know if it is within my price range. I would appreciate any assistance. Thank You
Hi Jer, Start by reading some of the articles here
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/beginners-guide-to-vibration-training
Also please say where you live as that determines somewhat what is available.
Jer …..
The only reason you are confused is you lack honest information. You wont get that from a salesman but you will get it here , all it takes is a little time and effort.
Go to the top of the page and read the articles under “topics” that apply to the things you want to know. They cover how to choose a good home unit , what Pivotal and Lineal is and safety to name a few.
Note: 5R Health used Pivotal units , the same type that are sold as gym models but break very quickly . (I warned the owners but they would not listen.)
I take it you still live in Stanton, CA ?
Alibaba.com , always good for a laugh……
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/216926433/vibration_plate/showimage.html
Love the statement……
“Two motors in one machine…….” Its a revolution !!
The true specs for the Crazy-Fit ( generic Pivotal from China ) have been released from the manufacturer ….
Technical specifications:
Maximum power: 1.5HP
Power consumption: 200W
Speed range: 20 or 30 or 50 levels are available
Amplitude: 0 to 10mm
Frequency: 0 to 12 REPS/S
So it is official Max Fq = 12HZ
Any faster and they just chew themselves up.
Correction….
Technical specifications:
Maximum power: 0.75HP
Power consumption: up to 500W
Speed range: 20 or 30 or 50 or 99 levels are available
Amplitude: 0 to 10mm
Frequency: 0 to 9 REPS/S
So it is official Max Fq = 9HZ
Based on my experience with unit, including stripping them down, and putting my accelerometer on them. I have tested over 6 brands.
Good mate , will need those test results to put up on the review site , so people can compare their previous advertising to the truth.
Guess they will be getting a big fat ZERO for ethics:)
Hi there.
I purchased a Crazy Fit Vibrating Platform,very similar, if not the same, as the one in the photo posted. The price through E-bay was 350 all together. This was 5 months ago. We use the machine at an net average time of 50 min every day, and lately it has startd to do make a hitting noise. This noise you can be avoided by repositionong your weight on the platform. It seems there is a gap between levers due to some faulty design and the quality of the parts used. we are in terms of changing it or having it fixed as it is still covered. We don´t feel cheated, because we know the prices of similar machines in the market. I think it´s a matter of the quality of the parts. I still enjoy and work out every day, and if the machine lasts for 3 or 4 years more I think my money is well invested.
You paid HOW MUCH! (Over $800NZ) Wow, They can’t give those machines away here in New Zealand.
If it’s working for you and you’re happy then okay but are you getting the results you hoped for? I’d love to hear your “before” and “after” stories. The machine is a very basic therapy machine. It can help some people, some situations BUT it’s NOT as advertised Excellent body shaper melts away mass body fat and it’s very overpriced. Caveat emptor!
I am both a consumer and a health industry service provider. I am going to have to say how disappointed I am to discover the mark-up on these fitness items.
After Lloyd posted the link to the Alibaba site, and I did a little further searching and pricing on that site first, and then other trade sites, I was shocked to discover that even the machine that is labeled the ‘Vibrogym Pro’ here in Australia, sells for a mere $1000 or so on that site per piece. What justification does any one/company have for marking these machines up 900 or 1000% ?
We all have to make a living, but maybe I am old fashioned and behind the times, but greed is not a trait that I hold highly. I give a service for a fee, and my fee is considered a fair one, being maybe at the lower end of what others charge for the same service, and is regulated not officially, but by how much the public can afford to receive mental/physical health assistance.I am not in my industry to become wealthy, I am making a living doing a service I like to offer.
I have been reading this site for a couple of years now, and am only now ready to purchase a machine, with hopefully enough knowledge to make an informed choice, but I now realize, that no matter which one I choose, I am likely paying far too much for it, compared to what it is worth — be it one that is deemed to be a good one or not.(I am interested in the Pulse Trainer Pro).
All I can say is that these machines, should be available to those with incomes from lower to higher, and not only for the ‘elite’ who have $10-20,000 spare, when they only cost about $1000.
Lloyd, if you want to really regulate this industry, maybe you could also put efforts into getting realistic pricing for the general consumer, so that this form of therapy/training can be there for all?
Just as an aside, I purchased a Vitality 600 a couple of years ago, from TVSN, before I read this site, and fortunately for me, it never worked. In fact it shorted my power every time I turned it on. I sent it back and got a refund with not one pivotal movement at all.
I am also shocked to think these people who have this model marketed on that site have sold a million of these in that time, mainly because when you do the math, it makes for very wealthy people at the business end, which when seeing the markup, is ethically and morally downright disgusting.
I saw another piece of equipment on the Alibaba site, that sells per piece for around $40, which sells here in Australia for at least $350. So, my guess is that this is a standard ripoff that is going on in the fitness equipment industry.
I would like to have my faith in humanity restored of course in many areas, but in this one, would be a nice beginning, seeing that fitness and health are so important for the wellbeing of all humans on this planet.
Robyn
Robyn…
The Vibro-Gym you saw was a fake , a replica , not the real photo of it. It is being tested soon to see if it meets any kind of standards.
…not the real photo of it…..
I see.
I was sent a some photos by the trader, of two models, one being touted as the same as the Vibro-gym Professional, and included were the specs as well.
I will await the results of the testing.
Robyn
Yes I contacted him too and was sent that material. I am waiting for the results from someone to confirm its performance.
Hi Robyn,
Just a quick line to stoke the fire a little.I personally met a ex sales person and employee of Power Plate who told me that as employees thay were allowed to purchase the pro 5 air adaptive model at cost.The price was app.1,100GBP the retail here is over 8,000GBP.You are right we the public are being whole heartedly screwed!!
Sorry Robyn, seems you got “lost in the system” somehow. Left a message for you and sent an email. Sometimes gets a little difficult to keep on top of it whilst working on the road.
thankyou for all your help. ITS TO LATE BUT I THINK I NOW KNOW I HAVE MADE A BIG MISTAKE I PAY $11oo for a pice of plastic!! THE TUBE SHAKES SO MUCH IF I DON’T HOLD IT. ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO LET GO OF IT.
I CANT AFFORD THE OTHER BETTER BUT MUCH AXPANSIVE MACHINE THEY HAVE, SOW IM STACK WITH THIS ONE. OR CAN CHIANGE IT; WITH THE VIVRO DISC,OR THE 600. WHAT DO YOU THINK I SHOLD DO? I WISH I COLD GET MY MONEY BACK
I WULD GET THE MACHINE BIG LOOSER USES.
BUT I CAN’T! WHAT DO IDO? I GOT IT MANLY BECOUSE I LIKE TO LOOSE SUME WEGTH AND IM NOT SURE WELL HELP ME. I CANT FIND FEED BACK OF EANY ONE WHO HAS USED IT. PLEASE HELP!! APLEASE AXCUSE MY MISTAKES BUT THIS IS NOT MY NATIVE LANQUAGE. KIND REGARDS
Hi i ben reading all your comment. i wish i got all this information before i got my machine. BUT THE IM CONFUSED
I saw the 600 video it looked very slow compared to how my 700 wich vabrete very much AND YOU CAN HARDLY SE IT TILTIN just don’t like when the top of the tube vibrate a lot probably this is normal on this machine! but if i hold it its ok. Im still a bit nevous to gow with the pogramm.i find it to powerfol saw i do it manual live it on speed 12 20 20 or 30 . i find from 50 to 60 a bit scarry. i hold firm to the tube handle. I bend my knee and then i put my hands on it to vibrate my arms, and chest
could that be heortifol? reading your investigations mackes me think that they can’t be good??
But they proclaim to have the best in the world. i got my from elite in australia it is a very well known company that sale this machines for them. that is whay i got it. i trasted them. they sed i got one of the best machine. NOT THAT I BELIVED BUT I WAS HOPING COULD BE TRUE ANTIL I READ YOUR WEB.
COULD THE VIBRATION OF THE POGRAMMES HEORT ME? IM AGE OVER 50. PLEASE HELP ME WITH MOORE INFORMATION .
I TRAST YOU MOORE THEN OTHERS. THANKYIU KINDLY.
I believe the consumers guarantees act in Australia should allow you your money back . No matter what they say.
But besides that I am afraid we cant help you. The people who sell those machines are so dodgy we can never get correct specs off them , so we can not predict if it will hurt you or not.
But it does not sound stable from your description , hence it is probably unsafe.
If they told you that is the best machine in the world, they lied to you!
Is your machine on a concrete or wooden floor? Make sure there is a mat or carpet under it. Then try it once more with slightly bent knees – as you said, set on the middle setting – about 30.
If you really don’t like it, ask Elite Fitness to give you your money back.
A gentle but effective machine is PulseTrainer. You can get this from Gymco (they are advertising free delivery) or Chirostore, both Internet stores (not actual shops. This machine can be set to pivotal ( it has gentle tilting) or upright vibration.
Or contact Murray Seaton at http://www.hypervibe.com.au for advice. He sells a pivotal (Tilting) machine and he will give you honest advice.
On the Elite Fitness Australia website they show 3 Vitality pivotal vibration machines. The vitality 700 has an amplitude of 13mm which seems high to me and with the shape of the machine and it’s possibly low weight, it probably does jump around a lot at high settings – whatever they are – It doesn’t state frequency.
I have a big problem with the Elite Fitness Australia website – the page advertising the Vitality 700 shows a girl on a DKN home machine (labelled Vitality 700) and two smaller pics of the DKN machine. It also has correct pic of the Vitality 700 — This goes to show how little this company knows about Vibration machines. There’s no excuse, like blaming their website programers, It’s so obvious. The machines look totally different!
On the page for the Vitality 600 machine they state “Studies suggest that oscillating platforms prevent bone loss in sheep and chickens… ” We know this is from research but it’s very funny when used in advertising and it wouldn’t make me want to buy their machine.
On the Vitality 400 page their advertising blurb is totally misleading, mixing up therapy and whole body vibration with suggestion that the machine “may” give (list of) results.
Can anyone please tell me which PowerPlate is the steel one…
Im looking to buy a lineal machine.. and i keep coming back to the power plate, but have gotten confussed by the whole steal plastic thing in here.
is it only the commercial ones??
Also one last question.. WHy is it lineal machines are sooooo much more expensive than pivitol?
(1) The steel Power Plates that have been discussed are all pre 2004. So only second hand ones can be found if you are lucky.
After that they went to plastic and China and lots of lying.
(2) Sorry I dont know how to make the whole plastic vs steel thing any less confusing . I though my articles did it nicely. Unless you want to go into the physics , then this is not the site for it.
(3) Completely different design , you cant compare them . You can build a cheap Lineal , but it wont be a workout machine.
Thankyou for that
Working my way through it all
Lloyd,
I have spent a lot of time browsing the information on this site and I have found it most informative and useful. Thank you! That said… I am a little confused…
I live in Toronto and attended the National Home Show this last week and saw the Euro Body Shaper product featured at a booth and on-sale for $1299 (versus $1799 US + Shipping on the euroshine site):
http://www.euroshine.com/EuroBodyShaper.htm
What shocked me is that this items looks just like the one that is pictured in the “Here’s how you are getting cheated” thread. Is this product good quality/value for the money? (I know this is a loaded question.)
I am recovering from a Car accident from years ago and thought a unit like this might help me get back on the path to improving various aspects of my health – muscle back/neck soreness/stiffness, general loss of stregnth, weight loss help potential, etc… I sit at a desk all day and have struggled with trying to get to the gym where all I fell well enough to do is cardio on the elliptical trainer. I know I need to do more exercise in general but spend too much time resting/sedentary so that I feel re-charged enough for work.
Do you advise that a machine like this (Euro Body Shaper) is worth it for my situation (assuming you have enough info), or do you advise going to some stores locally and get further advice? (If so, where do you advise I go in the Greater Toronto Area to see these machines?) I am hoping not to spend a fortune and that is why I saw the price of this unit appealing. And, I tried it and felt that it has good potential to help….but… maybe a $1000 more brings me to a whole different level/quality machine?
I probably would have bought the machine if I didn’t see this article… but then again that was before I did homework on the subject like I am doing by submitting my comment.
Your advice would be appreciated?
Thx
Firstly yes it is the same unit. Secondly I would not recommend this to anyone with an injury. Just far too random . We have no idea what they are doing.
Exactly how much are you will to spend and I will try to find you something.
Target budget of $2500 (or less). I am not so interested in fancy bell/whistle features but like quality and useful functionality nonetheless. To give you a car metaphor… I like Lexus cars but also appreciate the great quality/value of Toyota. In my case, a good quality Toyota will do for me. Because I don’t know the market for the vibration machines, I wouldn’t have a sense for Toyota-like quality/feature product and pricing. If you feel that my budget doesn’t make sense, please advise.
From a requirements standpoint… i really would like to utilize the machine for therapeutic value (i.e. massage like benefits) and to help strengthen myself physically overall, and lose weight. I am near 50yo and 230+ lbs.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Ok , this is about your only local choice at that price.
http://www.vibradepot.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Men.drilldown&Menid=3&orderby=displayorder
It will get the rehab and massage work done. But not really a workout machine. You would need to go up another 2k for that.
What would be the machine that is 2K more that will also serve for workouts? Locally = ships to Canada….what about retail stores… or am I out of luck to find a retail outlet/store in the Greater Toronto Area?
Thanks for your assistance.
Hypergravity have good home machines that are powerful enough to train on. Based in the U.S.
Google them.
Marketing Alert….
The industry has just sunk to a new low. Watching TVSN Foxtel just now, I caught a glimpse of Vitality for Life’s latest marketing angle.
In October last year, Australian newspapers reported the Galileo being used in a world first study at the Westmead Childrens Hospital. Vitality For Life have seen this is an opportunity and have very “generously” donated a crazy fit style unit to the hospital. Can’t say that is suprising….
However, what is sickening about that, is that a doctor from the hospital has graciously accepted this piece of junk for the cameras, and what appears to be children from the hospital are using it. TVSN claims they are using them for weight loss and diabetes.
I wonder if the doctors are aware that a machine working at 9Hz cannot activate the stretch reflex?
I wonder if the doctors at the hospital are aware that Vitality For Life provide information such as…
“*In the discussion of vibration, we refer to the speed of vibration as a measurement called Hertz (Hz), and the force of the vibration as amplitude. The Hz measurement is applicable to linear platforms only; oscillating platforms are measured by amplitude. Research has found that low amplitude vibrations are best for humans; however, the human response to Hz differs from person to person. The research we have studied suggests that vibrations in the 12 to 60 Hz range have many beneficial effects although the above 40 Hz range is more suitable for serious athletes.”
Are they aware that Vitality For Life promote exercises such as the “advanced twist”.
Is there really any excuse for not being aware of this? Where is the input from Galileo to these doctors?
Robyn,
I confirm what Lloyd has stated regarding the replica vibrogym. We have contacted the manufacturer and confirmed a price of 1280usd. The machine is a replica and you can tell straight away by the platform grip, the real vibrogyms have grooves cut out of the grip 2 on either side. I have seen Dan Fivey using this machine on youtube. Has he sunk that low? My personal experience with chinese electronics is not good.
Lloyd,
Do you trust the guys at Vibradepot. I came accross them a while ago and did contact them to confirm where the Farfalla machine was manufactured. Not sure if the guy was on his game but he advised it was manufactured in Italy. I found the same unit (and almost all other machines they list on Alibaba and most if not all were manufactured in china. They also have alot of tri-plan. machines.
Dan Pelletier…
No dont trust the sales staff at all , but the units are not to bad for the price.
Murray……
My bet is Galileo will do what they have always done , nothing.
Murrry…
If we can confirm this it can be used in our fight against unethical marketers. Writing a piece on a Hospital being involved in trading off Galileo’s work to sell cheap uncalibrated machines to children is gold.
It is what is needed to make the industry pull together. We all need to protest directly to the hospital.
To everybody…..
Note: Still allot of voyeurs on this site ,please realize this is a community and we do better when you participate rather than just read , take advice when you want it but give nothing back to the community. You do not need to be an expert in Vibration Training to know right from wrong and voice your opinion. Making a noise is our biggest weapon , if you stay silent it does not help.
Murray, I tried to contact you via your website contact form. It wont accept any email address – I tried mine, family one, gmail one – you might need to look into it (I can get yr address from Lloyd). I’d like to try out your machines at Bondi Junction soon.
Hi Guys,
Have spend two hours researching vibration training and really want to congratulate you on the objective and informative info you provide to someone comletely new to the topic.
Question for anyone in the know: I had a trial today at a place called ‘Vibromania’ in Melbourne CBD. I have also just located another gym in the CBD – ‘Vibrabody’ Given that it seems there may be some dodgy people out there – I thought I would ask if either of these places are known to you?
PS. My main focus is weigh loss – I have lost 8 kilos with diet nmodification and walking but feel I need something more – I like the benefits that vibration training is offering holistically. Can anyone help?
Thanks in advance
Hi Di,
Really strange about the contact form, have never heard of any issue before and receive emails on a daily basis. Don’t want to type my email here incase the site is crawled for emails to send me spam, but it is murray@
When you do shoot me an email, please let me know which emails you used in the form and I will have our developers investigate.
With regards to Vitality For Life. It was recorded tonight and I can confirm the following….
The presenter Peter Mason mentions that himself, TVSN, and Vitality For Life caught last years article on the Galileo in the Sun Herald. He does not name the Galileo, but rather says it was a $5000 machine.
So they thought, wouldn’t it be great to donate a unit to the hospital (rolls eyes). Standing outside the hospital, Peter mentions that the machine will be used to help with weight loss.
Last night I assumed they had a doctor accept the machine, however, from what I gather they are standing inside the hospital in a section described as “the kids activity research centre” and the gentleman who accepts is introduced only as “Craig”.
So possibly not a doctor, but at the least, appears to be some representative of the hospital.
Next shot shows a young girl on the machine in the same building.
Finally, back in the studio Peter mentions that when they were leaving that day, they were approached by 2 doctors who asked them how they can get some more of these machines. Apparantly an arrangement has been made between Vitality For Life owner Roger Akins, and the hospital, where further units will be placed into the hospital. Peter Mason then goes on to say that TVSN will be running further stories on the Childrens Hospital and the Vitality For Life machines later this year.
From the newspaper article, the lead researcher is named as “Craig Munns from the department of endocrinology and diabetes”. A search of the Westmead Childrens Hospital website and the only page which mentions Whole Body Vibration, also reveals a “Dr Craig Munns MBBS, PhD, FRACP Conjoint Senior Lecturer (U Syd)”
Looks like it is likely that the guy who accepted the machine from Vitality For Life is Dr Craig Munns, who is also the lead researcher from the Galileo study.
Something stinks in the Childrens Hospital at Westmead.
Hi Simone,
vibromania = fitvibe
vibrabody = vibrogym
I have little experience with these machines, but from what I gather both are good machines. I have seen studios in Melbourne try to use machines much worse than these 2, so you have managed to avoid the duds.
for those in the toronto area who are looking for a quality machine with local support i have found remington medical. they are distributors of the fitvibe line of equipment. The medical line is all steel (note it does have a smaller platform than the other offerings). I can report that I am more than happy with the machine and the individuals with who I worked in making this purchase (robert – owner and philip – salesperson). This is a first rate organization and an opportunity to purchase other than cheap chinese imitations or the power plate
Excellent Lori, glad to hear everything has worked out. Thanks for the info and review.
Ok folks this is your chance to make our voice heard. I am sending my e-mail to this lady….
Ms Gilly Paxton Director of Community Relations and Marketing
http://www.chw.edu.au/site/directory/entries/executive_management.htm
Why , because then it has to go through someone before it gets to the dodgy Doctor. So he cant keep it quite. I will post up my e-mail today. It will of course be a tad more aggressive that you guys , but that my role. You choose your tone and go with it. Dont be scared to sound angry though if you are.
And regulars please dont just stare at this message and decide to leave it up to other people to write in.
Because you are the other people.
Dear Gilly Paxton,
I am writing this as an official protest at the actions of Westmeads decision to put children and the public at risk due to what I see as highly unethical behavior by the staff in charge of Vibration Training , possibly Dr Craig Munns ( may not be isolated to just him ) . The Chinese unit they have accepted in front of the camera ( presenter Peter Mason for TVSN ) has a reputation of not only being uncalibrated but actually sold under fake specs worldwide deliberately by the marketers of the product , along with false , misleading and downright dangerous training advice. The company involved here is called Vitality for Life and are one of the worst offenders in Australia we have seen to date , they often use other more reputable companies tests results to fool the consumer , in this case probably the German built Galileo unit which is also a Pivotal unit .
Important to note: Every aspect of what they do we have witness is intentionally dishonest. They have zero knowledge of this science and are just marketers , they buy uncalibrated machines in China for approx. $80 , then use any means to sell them.
This consumer protection website http://www.vibrationtraining.net often features articles and warning about such products and marketing tactics along with customer complaints. As a writer for the site I will now be publishing an article on the industries disappointment at your decision to get involved with these types of people. I am more than disappointed, I am disgusted.
Please read this so you understand my stance on these issues and how seriously I take the responsibility of keeping the public safe from these types of people……
http://www.vibra-train.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4
Since then I have helped built up vibrationtraining.net to be the most hit site on Google, my unbiased approach to the market due to the fact I do not sell to the public, means I give free advice every day and I believe I am trusted, I also work closely with a lot of companies globally that do retail to the consumer. Some in Australia. I will be advising those companies to blacklist your hospital and the Doctors involved over any collaboration as it appears it will only be used as a marketing opportunity for companies like Vitality for Life to shift product , and not serious research.
My new upcoming website for the I.V.T.R.B. ( International Vibration Training Regulating Body ) which will be the official site for our industry watchdog will also list you publically as blacklisted.
You must understand , what Westmead Children’s Hospital has done goes against everything I stand for and is unforgivable. I care not why such a relaxed attitude was taken towards ethics and safety , but someone just put your reputation in the gutter as far as I am concerned. And I will make sure the consumer knows I find it unacceptable.
Regards Lloyd Shaw
Confirm and post your letter here , and any response. So we can track how this campaign goes.
I have posted my letter , but because it contains links it is awaiting moderation , but I have recieved a reply already…
Dear Lloyd
Thankyou for your correspondence. I have passed it to our Clinical Governance office for follow up. If you have any queries, please contact Kate Hurle – kateh$@chw.edu.au.
Kind Regards
Gilly
Hi Simone S, I much prefer VibroGym machines so I’d go to Vibrobody but I have no idea what their service/Instruction is like. Give it a go – first time should be free. FitVibe (Vibromania) is okay, just okay not great though, not the worst as Murray has said.
Thanks Di and Murray! Really appreciate the feedback. Have realised that I can’t go to Vibrogym – the location just doesn’t work for me. I was quite impressed with the hands on instruction and supervision at Vibromania. Di – do you think its worth going there for weight loss or not worth paying $200 for 12 sessions?
Too many choices!!!!
Hello there,
I leave in England and am trying to decide between a BodyShaker (home version, second hand but with light use), an oscillating plate such as LUXVIBE II or a DKN – Pro Evolve Vibration Platforma that I can get in England. I have even considered the Vibro-station.
I am interested in a machine that improves lymphatic and blood circulation, tone and if I can get rid of a few kilos that would be a bonus. I am not big (around 60kilos) so maximum weight is not an issue.
I would gratefully receive any suggestion.
Many thanks
Vassi
Grab the Body-Shaker. Good solid units with a proven track record.
Vassi , a quick question…
The LUXVIBE II is the same machine we warn people about on here alot..
eg..
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/10/warning-to-home-users-heres-how-you-are-getting-cheated
But you asked anyway. Do you not believe us ?
And just to note , the marketers of these machines continue to sell them under fake specs……..
” The oscillating plate LuxeVibe II is the only oscillating platform in Europe at 1490 and 50 Hz to offer a range of “13 mm” for a job far more powerful!
Thank you very much for getting back to me and for your generous advice.
I really spent hours and hours reading your pages, but I obviously missed the one with all the fake names and specs! I took it for an Italian brand, sold by guys in France. Have a look at their page http://www.world-slim.com// Good marketing but something did not look quite right. You cant call them. Only contact via email and no explanations about where the machine was made or similar stuff! A disgrace! Do you think that these machines will help with lymphatic and blood circulation?
Lighter machines will do what you ask , but if for a similar price you can get the Body-Shaker , it will do the job better/faster and more besides that.
Here’s my letter and reply
Dear Ms Paxton
I was extremely disheartened to see that your hospital has accepted a gift of a Vitality for Life vibration platform. I wonder if you are aware that using a poor quality Vibration Machine can be potentially very dangerous, particularly when combined with an unsafe program and less than honest marketing. They are not toys and everything about them should be taken seriously.
I believe that you have accepted a quick freebie at the cost of your childrens health and are risking their safety to promote a machine that has not been endorsed by the International Vibration Training Regulatory Body which is a voluntary group I belong to that gets machines tested before the public get to use them and promotes ethics .
Prior to opening my vibration training studio I worked at The Childrens Hospital School at Great Ormond St in London for 4 years. I am well aware of the companies and celebrities who wish to use the hospital as a quick and easy way to gain some publicity. At Great Ormond Street we went to great pain to ensure that the visit or gift would actually be of benefit to our children and that the company/ celebrity had their best intentions at heart. I think it is extremely disappointing that you did not take time to do your own research on vibration training before accepting and endorsing such a machine.
Vibration training on a good quality machine using a safe programme has a myriad of health benefits many on which I have witnessed first hand in my own customers. The vibration training industry looks forward to seeing the technology being used more in hospitals so that research and evidence can prove the efficacy of the machines. However if research is done on machines that do not fit their purpose the results will bring our industry into disrepute.
I hope that you will do some more research into this and are able to use vibration training in the hospital in a way that will genuinely benefit your children.
Yours sincerely
Philippa Church
Dear Phillipa
Thankyou for your email. we received a similar complaint last week. The matter is being looked into by Kate Hurle in our governance unit
Kind regards
Gilly
Important message……
Update on Children’s Hospital “gift”.
The outcome was swift and an important precedent to be set..
(1) Adverts to be taken off air.
(2) Company told unit is not suitable and wont be used on Children.
Everybody that actually got involved , pat on the back. It proves our efforts are not in vain and do have a chance to shape this industry.
Note: Galileo got involved.
I will be writing an article on this , as our concerns , actions and outcome needs to be advertised.
That’s super. I will look forward to the article.
Wondering about the quality of a unit from DZT fitness in Vancouver, Canada. I do not mind the ‘therapy’ aspect of a lower cost lighter machine, I like the massage. However I do have concerns over safety, wearing on hip joints on a pivotal machine. I cannot tell if it is damaging or not, how much should the plate travel vertically in the pivot? Is the DZT portable a good, safe unit if used properly? Just purchased one, am not overweight at all but want to do the right thing with my body.
Thanks
Jade
Why did you find this website AFTER buying your machine? If you care about your health and safety why didn’t you look into it before buying?
DZT portable? Is that the little machine without handlebars? It’s a very expensive toy that you will no doubt grow tired of or it will break down long before it gets a chance to hurt you. Beware: The video on the website – incorrect information in the first minute.
Read the artices on this page starting with the first one
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/beginners-guide-to-vibration-training
If it is the small unit without the handle bars, they are not suitable for Therapy on hips due to the lack of handle bars ( shearing from lack of stability ) and are sold under I suspect fake specs…..
Frequency settings 0 – 50 Hz
I have tried the machine without the handle bars, it does not go up to 50hz. The display says 50, the book says its 50 and the sales rep will say its 50.
Compared to the Vibraflex units I have run, these machines feel more like the 25 hertz range at there max setting of 50.
On a side note, if it did go up to 50 hertz there would be no physical way to stand on the plate. The lift created by this pivotal plate would be too much, and the plate movement too fast, the feet would loose contact and the user would fall off.
They wont even go that high , even if it feels like they do. I would say 12hz max. And yes you are right , any higher and you would end up on the floor.
22lbs in a month – with no other changes I presume? You sound like a marketer! That’s crazy, stupid and not good for your health, in my opinion, unless you weighed around 310lb to begin with – and then the machine you’re advertising wouldn’t work properly as they have been proven to lose efficiency way before maximum load.
Did you stand on the machine all day?
The VT-7 starts at 15Hz (at speed 1) and goes up to 45Hz (at speed 50).
This can not be right, it must be false advertising. Can anyone confirm this?
While researching machines, I noticed that the Chinese company that makes the Crazy Fit also shows a unit that looks exactly like the VibroGym Professional, and the specs are identical.
VibroGym claims to be built in the Netherlands, but it seems odd that Wangxin would build the exact machine unless they were doing so under contract. Not to say that they didn’t build a knock off on their own, that definitely happens. But given the obvious cost advantages of off-shoring products like this, it would be very tempting for VibroGym to do so. I’m just wondering if they did.
Thoughts?
No Vibro-Gym are still made in Holland.
I will explain , the story so far… …..
Guss Van Der Meer was caught getting replicas of the original Power Plate (now Vibro-Gym) made behind everybody’s back , this was discovered when they broke down quickly and could not be fixed. He was told to F-Off by everyone with some ethics ( the rest went with him ) and went to China to get even cheaper plastic copies done called the Power Plate Next Generation because steel was too expensive and he was only interested in profit margin not quality. The money for the steel went into marketing.
Note: The new plastic ones also quickly broke down .
In the mean time Power Plate as a company obviously split up and Marcel Tamminga ( Power Plates engineer ) continued making the real machine and called it Vibro-Gym . Still being made today.
The machine you see being made in China is that original replica back in production and the home unit that was never released due to the split. I was contacted by the manufacturer in China and have arranged tests to be done side by side to a real Vibro-Gym, to see if the same old issues are there.
The Chinese wanted all cash up front, then production and delivery in maybe 8 weeks. Until the research is done I can not comment either way if they are a good deal or a trap.
Ah…makes sense. Thanks for the details.
They quoted $1280 (US) with a minimum order quantity of 2 units. Considerably more than the Crazy Fit, but obviously far less than the VibroGym. At those prices, one could toss the machine out every 6 months and still be doing pretty good…if the specs were accurate.
I have no problem paying big money for a good unit, IF vibration training ends up suiting me. Problem is that I have no access to a proper training machine, and therefore no sense of what I may be committing myself to.
Hypergravity has a new version of their personal unit that seems very nice…for a bit over $4k. A very reasonable cost if I can achieve my goals, but a very bitter pill for a unit that ends up unused. A sufficient unit at a considerably lower cost is far easier to justify for an unknown, but likely ends up wasted if (when) you end up upgrading.
I think that if I were able to spend some time on a training grade machine and could prove to myself that WBV is within my tolerance and discipline, I would’ve already bought a quality unit.
Decisions, decisions…
Robert – are there no studios/ good gyms with a good machine that you can try out? Even one that’s a bit of a trek so that you can try a machine once or twice? Definitely worth seeing what it’s about before you choose.
I am seriously considering Hypergravity, and flying out to California to spend some time with them. Tickets are quite cheap now, as are hotels if you book through Priceline, so that seemed like an obvious answer.
Given the cost of a good machine, and the significance of the potential life changes, I think it is well worth the time and investment to become well educated.
It seems that the quality of the machine isn’t really a question, Hypergravity seems to be well respected by most folks around here. The big question for me is whether vibration training fits me, and I think that can only be answered by trying it. I really hope the answer is ‘yes’.
Robert – where are you?
Tennessee.
Hello to all,
I’m considering the purchase of a WBV unit, linear. I’m from Canada, so much less choices but I have narrow down my choice to the Hypergravity Total Vibe and the new Wave Contour home unit. Both seems to be good machines. Can you advice on this and or highlight the major differences for the overall quality and potential of those two units? I have found many references and comment on the Hyper but not much on the Wave. I’m not concern about the programs or remote. Manual is fine with me. I’m looking for good quality unit that can support my running training and overall health. Many thanks !
They are similar units looking at the specs sheet, and will both hold those specs to a given weight. And both will be of good quality, made of steel. Both good companies.
So its going to come down to “feel”.
My advice is simple , try before you buy. I mean these things cost the same amount as a small car. So a tests drive is preferable. Or finding someone independent who has tried both , maybe another runner.
Important Note:
This kind of situation above is going to happen more and more often now we dont have such a wide gap between Great / Ok / Sucks . Recommending before was easier when only 1 unit or company stood out.
So manufacturers………. getting models out there is imperative for that tests drive factor , so maybe offering a discount to those willing to allow people to visit them ( in safety of course, commercail situation the best ) for a try will get you a number of by-proxy showrooms.
I am going to allow a limited number of IVTRB members products into our studios worldwide on a voluntary studio by studio basis. Nothing makes a better showroom than a Vibration Training environment.
Kym Jones Exhibitions, have denied consumers a choice of vibration machines from the upcoming Sunday Mail Home Show in Adelaide. Opting instead, to show visitors only the low speed pivotal, Health Station.
Suppliers of this machine claim…
- The vibrations cause rapid reflexive muscle actions at rates of 25-50 times per second.
- your body can burn up to 350 calories in a 10-15 minute session.
- Fat burning and toning
- Just by standing on the machine you can lose inches, tone up and improve your strength and flexibility.
- Decreases the appearance of cellulite
- and because 10 to 15 minutes spent on the Health Station replaces 1 hour in the gym, you can stay fit and healthy and still have time to do the things you love!
I am sure any customers suffering from buyers remorse, will be very appreciative of the decision made by the event organizers.
Action required Murray! I presume you wont travel to Adelaide if you’re not able to exhibit but can you get someone else to put flyers on cars parked at the homeshow. Write it carefully telling people to check the stats if thinking of buying that machine. remind them of their consumer rights of return. Write up the the true positives of the Health Station – basic therapy maybe, and compare with your machine for training needs. Consumers need accurate information.
I had an interesting chat with the ACCC yesterday.
They were interested to know about this situation.
Besides therapy vibration machines, Exception Enterprizes sell….
hand bags
massage cushions
mops
pillows
vacuums
pens
dryer balls
chamois
You really know you are buying from a Whole Body Vibration industry leader, when you know they also sell steam mops.
Lloyd,
How is your range of cookware coming along?
No I am going into Sybian replicas
Hi, please excuse my seemingly already answered question .. but I have read so much on the web these last few days about vibration platforms that I am feeling more than a little bamboozled!
I recently bought a vitality 600 machine from TVSN.. and am now concerned about some of the posts… are these machines actually dangerous to use..? If so, is there some way I can find recourse against TVSN..?
I feel lost and am starting to feel a little stupid for having bought this machine on a whim.. expecting that such a public ‘place’ such as TVSN would only sell a reputable machine.
I am based in Melbourne but only recently moved to Australia so wasnt aware of more reputable retailers (yes, stupid I know.. after reading a post elsewhere where Di asked the poster why they hadnt researched BEFORE making their purchase!).
Thanks folks
Elizabeth…
No the unit is not dangerous. It is a Low Speed Pivotal machine as seen in our review section.
If that is what you wanted, then that’s ok. If it was sold to you though with fake specs or endorsements from Premium Speed Pivotals for weight loss you should be able to ask for your money back.
What was the Fq range given to you as ?
Thanks for replying so quickly Lloyd, i will grab the book with the spec and find out… and as you all probably know, they were raving on about it on TVSN about all the health benefits, one of which was weight loss….
Anyway, back soon
hi Lloyd, the booklet which came with the machine says:
Amliptude: 0-10mm
this means nothing to me… does it mean anything to you..? Dont see anything about Fq range…please forgive my ignorance.
in this booklet it does clearly state:
‘high ocilliating speed range
For weight loss, use the platform between 4-8 times per day for a duration of between 10-20 mins on a lower speed’
Funny though that the above statement seems to contradict itself!
Another section of the same booklet says its ok to use it every day.. which again, seems to be what earlier posts i have read advise against….
These days its hard to know what to believe, who to trust and to know what is good for us and what is harmful!
Any help would be gratefully received
(p.s. although weight loss would be nice, I didnt buy this machine as a miracle cure, but to supplement cardio and strength training which I already do)
The amplitude is how far the plate moves, the Fq/Hz is how fast up and down it moves.
1hz = 1 “up and down” per second
If this happens fast enough it feels like a vibration.
The 2 combined together gives you the basic principles of training against gravity.
Slower = Therapy
Faster = Training
Considering all the benefits they talk about are from machines that run up to 27hz like the units tested by NASA , it is important for the consumer to ask how fast the machine can run.
My advice, contact them and ask, get the figure in writing. Then you have something to work with.
Quite a few of the articles here explain everything you need to know about how these things make the difference between something that works well and something that doesnt.
I try to make them short, easy to read and easy to understand.
Hi Elizabeth
Can you please re-check your booklet, where it says,
“For weight loss, use the platform between 4-8 times per day for a duration of between 10-20 mins on a lower speed” – that’s around 2 1/2 hours a day. The machine’s safe to use but I wonder at that duration, who has that amount of time available every day? Also most people would quickly lose interest even if they did see results.
One result you want to see is weightloss. What others are you wanting and did the salesperson promise you those results?
I’m now very confused. Can you get a commercial vibration machine for weight loss, bone density and general toning for average people – not an atheletic team, for $1500- per machine.
Is T-zone vibration machines the same as the ones from slimvibes, and how would you ever know?
Thanks
Joyce
Joyce
These articles will help explain about commerical machines:
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2008/04/why-buying-a-true-commercial-product-is-important
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2008/04/why-buying-a-true-commercial-product-is-important
If you mean $1500 US dollars that seems too little for a commercial machine. Is this for one machine in a combination business or do you plan to open a vibration studio?
Joyce This article might help:
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2008/04/why-buying-a-true-commercial-product-is-important
Joyce…
This article starts off like this…
This article is for all those consumers that say, I have read all the articles, but I am still confused, why cant I buy a great Training platform for only $1000??
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2009/01/whole-body-vibration-just-like-buying-a-car
Besides that we have about 10 articles on here giving you answers to that exact question. But the most important thing you have to understand is, no matter if its for home use or pro-team sports use, the quality will need to be similar . Maybe not the size or warranty etc.. but the “quality” changes the results.
Hi Lloyd
Some months I found a Vibraflex gym and I tried it… I was delighted, they are marvelous machines! But sadly, the gym closed. Know I am looking for something similar. I just found a Crazy Fitness gym. I also tried it and noticed that the machines are kind of different and the vibration do feels different. So, I have some questions:
1) Could you please tell me if Crazy Fitness machines are effective and secure?
2) With vibraflex, we did different exercises with weight lifting, elastic bands,etc., but with crazy fitness you just stand at the machine in different positions… does that is effective? I can’t belive that just standing there can help. I expected to feel my muscles hurt a little the day after, but I felt nothing.
3) I have the opportunity to do other kind of exercise, such as body combat and dance lessons instead of crazy fitness. Would it be convenient to leave those exercises so I can go to Crazy Fitness gym? Does it worth it?
Thanks a lot for your help!!
The Crazy-Fit machines are cheap junk made to look like the real thing. And all they do is need to make it Pivotal from side to side to fool most people.
The “feeling” something was missing…
On the Vibra-Flex/Galileo “Premium Speed Pivotal” the machine was going over a certain speed threshold that allows “training” to take place. The Crazy-Fit type units are going fast enough to seem like a vibration but on a physics basis simply are not doing enough.
This is a very contentious issue with sellers of cheap slow machines with their only defense being “prove mine are not as good” showing a complete lack of respect for us designers. And they will tell you that you imagined the difference.
Trust me , even if 100 studies were released showing they were not as good, they will never give you your money back and it is a waste of your time and money now.
Crazy-Fit gym….?
The machines cost $80 to buy in China, the “gyms” are just showrooms to shift stock which soon pack up and move once sales drop.
Static workouts… ( as in multiple poses not just standing there )
Yes you can get great results from “not moving” , that’s because you are moving, just not voluntarily. In fact you may not be getting all the results you could because you are moving and it might do you damage over a long period of time..
You must be aware that allot of trainers just throw in “traditional” moves on these platforms to cover up their lack of education into “involuntary reflexes”. If any of them say the static program is useless, they are amateurs. Trust me you will die doing a regular static safety program.
Not sore the next day….? Read this….
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2008/08/delayed-muscle-soreness-and-vibration-training
I found this invaluable in explaining the difference in all the machines around http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/machine-reviews
I am not good with machinery at the best of times
Anyone here owned a Galileo for a while. How durable are they ?
As cheap as flights are right now it might pay you to fly somewhere that has a commercial studio to try one out.
Hey Mark,
I’m with Lloyd , Both are good. wave is a new company so not much out there about then yet. Both have great PR and would be happy to let you try out the machines….
Sounds like a smart plan, besides a chance to visit sunny CA! Have a great trip and let us know what you discover.