Warning to Home Users: Here’s How You Are Getting Cheated
Here is a PDF copy of an actual wholesale order form for a “Vibrating Massager”. Look carefully at the price: 125 US Dollars per item.
I’ve shown the picture from the order form.
Among the claims listed with the machine is this: “Excellent body shaper melts away mass body fat”.
Now let’s look an actual ad (see below) for the exact same machine from a retailer. You will note the machine appears to be identical (except for a different brand).
It sells for a price of 1,699 US Dollars. A mark-up of %1,359.
No wonder there is such a clamor to try and market these machines.
If integrity and quality does not enter the market soon - the entire concept of Whole Body Vibration will become (remain?) a laughing stock.
Please refer to the article Choosing a Vibration Platform for Home - before parting with your hard-earned cash.
UPDATE 11 Feb 2008: Picture removed after request from owner of the product
Written by Site Administrator on October 14th, 2007
105 Comments
- Di Heap
October 14th, 2007I guess if you add in freight, insurance, duty, the % markup lowers just a little BUT there’s still HUGE, Enormous profit on that machine.
That particular machine is advertised by the company in the bottom picture as being “the best quality vibration machine on the market.” and “Even Vibration exercise machines costing thousands more are not of the same Quality, Construction or Performance!” It is said to be “Rock Solid” and “Super Quiet unlike other vibration exercise machines that feel like they are going to break, sway side to side and are VERY LOUD.”
They list other machines (including lineal platforms which of course are quite different) and prices and say Compare Prices.It is advertised as a Vibration Exercise Machine and endorsed by a health and fitness trainer, Dr John Spencer Ellis.
Lloyd, I know your article is about the price being charged for home use machines and not an attack on a specific brand/company BUT this advertising is rather far-fetched especially as the company also says that the machine is so affordable because they are the MANUFACTURER.. Clearly this isn’t true!
Manufacturer and Importer are two different entities!
- Harvey
October 15th, 2007One big draw back!
These manufacturers can get away with this because the public doesnt know any better, and things like this blog are just not seen by the general public!
I managed to drop the over inflated price of these things in N.Z. very quickly using sites like trade-me. The news travels very quickly that way.
In the mean time I am collecting info on the individuals responsable, not just for the profiteering ,but mainly the deliberate exposure to the public of dodgy products , programs and dishonest marketing practices.
Those who have sold them to people with health disorders will top the list.
Name and shame does work. It just takes time for me to set it up so the public is listening.
- Harvey
October 16th, 2007Lloyd
Any help required in the UK let me know!
I’m sure if we all work together on this things will eventually change!
I will release a set of instructions shortly and the more people involved the faster it will work.
- John Weatherly
October 19th, 2007I think that’s great to expose these frauds - and they seem to be all over in the exercise field - vibration is just a prime and excellent example.
Consumer alert….
A company called Elite Vibration using the wording “vibrationtraining” in their web address, is already selling cheap Chinese imports and are even planning to sell versions of the now debunked Soloflex.
This company has nothing to do with http://www.vibrationtraining.net and in fact represents everything we DONT stand for.
I would say this a deliberate attempt to make on the honest reputation this site has gained. Pathetic losers.
- MikeyB
November 5th, 2007I think I stumbled on their site a week or so ago.
I am pretty sure its “elite fitness” (NZ Fitness Shop) selling their equipment through this website.
When I was in Elite Fitness last they told me how they are now buying PowerPlate home machines and Branding them with the Elite Fitness Logo.
- MikeyB
November 5th, 2007I just found the site but I guess you dont want it on here so I wont write the url.
yep I am pretty sure thats Elite Fitness and they are using there high profile name in Gym Equipment to sell crappy machines to everyone using their logos
Yes , if they are the same guys , they sat opposite me once and swore they would never expose people to such products, while trying to get me to train their staff . Of course they where lying to me and obviously planned to the whole time .
They will be named and shamed one day.
- Di Heap
November 7th, 2007There’s no IF about it. The contact phone number is the same number. The websites are made by the same web company.
But, of course you probably know this altready
The guys at VibraSlim are now trying to pass off their product as full commercial on to unsuspecting gyms and fitness centers in Canada and the U.S.
VibraSlim has now changed its name again the “Vibra-Plate”.
- Alex
November 23rd, 2007Dear All
It must be clear to us all that the only difference between the Powerplate and chinese import machines such as VibraSlim V2/Crazy Fit Massage is motion of the plate going back and forward on the Powerplate. The oscillation up/down movement has a higher amplitude on the Vibraslim/Crazy Fit Massage though - this important up/down movement i publicly described as the most important movement for the musclestretch-reflex to occur.
Can anyone in this blog compliment the Vibraslim/Crazy Fit Massage for its functionality? Has anyone experienced any results?
Best Regards
Alex
Copenhagen, Denmark Alex….
Maybe you want to spend time reading other articles on this site before you try to start a conversation.
Caution: Marketers are not welcome so statements like ..
“this important up/down movement I publicly described as the most important movement for the musclestretch-reflex to occur.” should come with a theory attached.
- Alex
November 26th, 2007“In order to elicit a stretch reflex in the muscles, the major contributing factor to the training results that can be achieved with vibration platforms, the up-down movement is the most important. Most popular machines vibrate in three different directions: sideways (x), front and back (y) and up and down (z). The z-axis has the largest amplitude and is the most defining component in generating and inducing muscle contractions. Concerning the z-movements two principle types of systems can be distinguished: side alternating systems, operating like a see-saw and hence mimicking the human gait where always one foot is moving upwards and the other one downwards and systems where the whole platform is mainly doing the same motion respectively both feet are moved upwards or downwards at the same time (source: Abercromby AF, Amonette WE, Layne CS, McFarlin BK, Hinman MR, Paloski WH.: Vibration Exposure and Biodynamic Responses during Whole-Body Vibration Training, Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 Oct;39). Systems with side alternation offer a larger amplitude of oscillation and a frequency range of about 5 Hz to 35 Hz system the other systems offer lower amplitudes but higher frequencies in the range of 20 Hz to 50 Hz.”
I meant to say ” IS publicly described as the most important…”, not “I publicly” - my fault.
But Lloyd can you answer questions, because I am seeking professional help.
- Michael
November 26th, 2007In defense of Alex, I think he made a typo and dropped the ’s’ - i.e. “…is publicly described…”. Agree a reference would be handy, but I doubt he is a marketeer, just someone genuinly trying to make sense of it all - as am I!
- Michael
November 26th, 2007Whoops, crossed over in the ether - sorry!
Sorry for sounding heavy handed , was just a warning shot in case you where about to start marketing…
A few points to ponder….
(a) If Amplitude does play the most important role in Vibration Training then why do I have such good success with 3mm and under ?
(b) Does jumping up higher always lead to a better action. Or is repeated control more important ?
(c) Any pivotal unit would outclass Powerplate for precise movement. As deliberate 3D vibration is not considered responsable.
(d) Vibra-Slim has always relied on stealing other peoples work to claim as their own. Even my writings that were on Lineal movement . I believe no studies they refer to can be trusted.
Having said that …
Any pivotal machine doing it job and used properly should give good solid results in time.
- Di
November 26th, 2007Alex and Michael
You might be interested in this article
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/02/pivotal-and-lineal-machinesAlso, I will quote Lloyd Shaw, from an article on his company website:
“There are 2 catagories of machines available, PIVOTAL and LINEAL. Some companies produce both (usually Asian), but most choose one or the other. And no matter what the sales people tell you neither one is better than the other. They are different systems , used for different reasons.
Pivotal (See-Sawing) motion is great for bone degenerative diseases, incontinence, pelvic stability and some weight loss. And pain reduction. Fq. 0hz-35hz
Lineal (straight up and down under both feet) is also good for all the above, but its main purpose is just a good hard workout. Its pressure response in the muscle can be greater and hence can cause a greater anabolic boost that can change your BMR (resting metabolic rate) which is the key to long term weight loss.
A lighter unit can be used for rehab work. Higher Fq 38hz-50hz is advised for best results where the pressure in the Lumbar is decreased.This is still only part of the answer to your questions as machines are made for Domestic, Professional and Commercial usage. Also there are qualities of machines depending on the brand design and manufacturer. You would be better guided if you say what results you want to achieve.
Hey Lloyd,
I have some very savy internet marketing skills. I can really expose these cheap companies… like vibratrim…vibraslim…crazyfit… and now slimvibes (slimvibes.com)… notice again the same machine.
Even Dr. Young, the Great Ph Miracle man, is promoting Vibraslim… makes me sick.
With your permission, can I use some of the information here to set up a buyer beware page…
I will start by targeting the above model pictured (and all companies selling it) on ALL related search keywords. Then we can go after others…
Does anyone know any other “labels/brands” this machine has (besides the ones I listed)?
Lets educate the world,
BryantAlso,
Pivotal Machines are VERY effective for peripheral neuropathy and nerve regeneration.
My friend Yosef Johnson has a clinic in Muskegon called Balance In Life. He uses the Galileo 2000 (25-27 hz), 5 min 3x a week with his patients.
He has amazing proof with over 30 patients on reversing incontinence, neuropathy (diabetic related), and osteopenia. He has several years of experience working with pivotal and taught me a lot.
If you type in “whole body vibration” in youtube.com, you can watch my interview with him. Look for “Whole Body Vibration 1″, “Whole Body Vibration 2″ and “Whole Body Vibration 3″. (9 min each segment)
Lloyd, he is very open minded and would be someone good to work with on refining a pivotal safety protocol and plan. He’s a great researcher and is very careful to make sure people have correct placement (perfect symmetry about the pivot point).
He may be able to help open communications with the pivotal community since he knows all the researchers very well.
Bryant
Yes Bryant, you can quote my work if it helps educate the consumer .
I would like for the Pivotal companies to be in proper communication with me , as I find it hard to protect them otherise. An organised assult on the “fake” market would be far more effective , we can sort out our differences later.
Yes,
I am planning to put up a whole body vibration resource website with NO advertising or promoting of any specific brand.
I can easily put up an organized assault on the cheap lineal and pivotal from overseas. Give me a little time, as I need to have my website up and running first. I have some ideas I want to run past you.
My first target is the vibraslim/vibratrim/crazyfit/slimvibe
Then Soloflex WBV
Then Powerplate
After that we’ll see, possibly vibrafit (or any recommendations?)
With your permission, can I use some of the information here for educational purposes. I promise this site is not brand specific, only educational.
Thanks Again
Bryant MeyersI can only give you permission to quote my work not others. So any article not done by me will need further permission.
(a) Make sure it is in keeping with the ideas we promote here.
(b) Please name me as author.
- MikeyB
December 4th, 2007Lloyd why do the pivotal companies need to have proper communication with you?
You are very knowledgeable in the area of WBV but you didnt create the exercise so what makes you God of Vibrations.Maybe they should have good communication with the Russian Cosmonauts im sure they have more experience.
And who madeit your job to protect them. who are you protecting them from? YOU?
Yes true , none of us here invented the base technology that is Vibration Therapy , the people that did have long since passed away so are in no position to help us.
What I am doing is to try and finish the project , take it to a Training realm and help produce an industry surrounding that.
Protection…
The fact is those companies that have been in the industry for years have failed to educate and hence help protect the consumer, with some actually looking the other way when unethical/unsafe things happen. No action taken , just lots of whinging behind closed corperate doors . Not good leadership skills in my book and no way to earn respect.They seem to be unwilling or incapable of protecting themselves or anyone else so I am inviting them to join me . They can continue going it alone at their own risk.
MickeyB…
You dont want people to follow me and my work ?Then put up a name and the reasons for them to follow someone else.
Or let me guess , you were just whinging ?
- Physio-fit
December 4th, 2007To Lloyd Shaw,
I’m a physiotherapist who’s using WBV at my clinic (fitvibe) & in the process to put together with my team a WBV book for medical & health care professionals. I’m a huge fan of WBV & believe in its positive use in medical field. I’ve been reading some of your comments & would like you to help me answering some questions please:
1- Most companies selling WBV claim “10mins on Vibration plate equivalant to 1hr conventional training”, On what research or theory this claim is based?
2- Do all vibration machines have different G-forces? if yes, then Does higher G-Force have a more positive result on effects of WBV?
3- Can we use WBV with for example on patient with healed/recoverd (6 months post-op) artificially replaced knees of hips? (I believe we can depend on each case!but interested to know your opinion)
4- Is there a comparison table on all current WBV machines & their differences in term of specs, quality, features …etc?
5- Do you know of any starting research on WBV? if yes, can you please list them?
Sorry to bombard you with all these random questions! I appreciate your help
Regards
Leon
Leon…
(1) This statement is ambiguous or downright misleading sometimes. Depending on your point of view. But it generally came from trainers trying out the original test models ( 100kg/ steel/ PowerPlate-VibroGym ) and coming to the same conclusion ” it feels like you have been doing weights for an hour”.
But some unit do not live up to that reputation.
(2) Units will have different G-Forces depending on the Fq. This can be calculated easily on paper, but again some units lose performance under weight so it can vary widely in “real” terms. Tests need to be done to determine this.
A higher G-force is not always needed to gain the best response and is not the only way to produce pressure in a movement. You need to ask a few questions first.
(a) Why do you want the movement and pressure ?
(2) Is it safe ?
Eg. You would not directly put the same amount of energy into the spine as you would the legs .
(3) I would not put someone on a standard vibration training device with artifical knees or hips. Too much weight causing too much pressure. In my opinion side bars are a must .
(4) No reliable/impartial comparison table exists. I will be working hard to get this done in 2008.
(5) Most research at the moment seems sub-standard. Very generic and missing too many details for my liking . I hopefully get proven wrong on this point soon.
- Di Heap
December 5th, 2007Well it’s been a while since I read this forum but today - Thanks for the laughs, MikeyB.. Russian Cosmonauts have more experience of wbv than Lloyd??? Hahahahahaha. Their experience was short term and long ago now.
What about all the other designers and manufacturers of wbv platforms.. where are they and why haven’t they cared enough to give out advice and info over the past, shall we say, three years??? Do any other really knowledgeable people even exist?
If other designers and manufacturers cared about the end users of their machines at all, they would have spent time giving out helpful info, taking part in discussions and answering questions. Maybe they don’t know enough to even try! Almost every other manufacturer I’ve come across is just trying to sell machines as a business much more than as an aid to help people achieve fitness and good health.
- Di Heap
December 5th, 2007I’d like to challenge other designers and manufacturers to take the time to put up info and especially to answer health/safety queries, not to just push their specific brand of machine. Lloyd’s machines aren’t even available in the countries of most people who ask questions on here.
How can he be the god of vibrations? Because he’s the ONLY person who lives the wbv designer/manufacturer life every day. And yes, he would protect a person from his own machines if he knew they would be detrimental to that person’s good health. You have no idea how strict he can be. In his studios you do what he says; Use the specific machine he tells you to use, and do the program his way. You don’t get choices to do what you feel is a good idea. I hated being told exactly what to do but now I know for sure that Lloyd does know what’s best..how? Because of the results I’ve had and continue to have!
How can he know so much about pivotal machines when his are lineal? because his first machine design was pivotal and because he’s made it his interest to know everything there is to know. That means I don’t have to try to understand the physics, math and biology involved. If anyone else has lots of knowledge, well why don’t they share it and benefit us all. I’m glad some others ( academics, sellers) do share info. There’s no doubt however that Lloyd knows whatever there is to know.
Nice idea Di……
but they have shown they cant see past the next sale or grant , asking them to start working every day now for some respect they “might” get in 3 yrs , I think is a little too much.But we live and hope.
And why do I bother ? This from my website (11/07) after I helped PowerPlate , which I will always regret…..
“I have a plan , to help lead the industry through innovation. Make alliances with like minded companies , and regulate it from within. And make no mistake , I have taken it as part of my resposability to clean up the industry so we can move forward.”
Nothing has changed for me.
- Di Heap
December 5th, 2007Mikey, I fought against Lloyd being “god of vibrations” even more than you do. I spent hundreds of hours researching other writings and other people’s studies, both academic and anecdotal. I visited other branded studios. It must look like I just back whatever Lloyd says but that’s only because I have never been able to find him wrong and I have tried!
I now fully appreciate the need for specific machines that perform to specs for the purpose they were designed. Plus the absolute importance of being in perfect position on the machines. This is easily achieved by using a machine brand that’s trustworthy because the info is available and proven (oh and being able to talk with the designer is a big plus as I am inquisitive and annoying!).
Also for safety of use, I’ve learnt that having an Instructor who knows how to get the User into correct position and makes them maintain correct position throughout the duration gives me confidence of the safety and the efficacy of the program and machines.
I’m not saying that Lloyd’s is the only brand that is any good. Just saying that he’s definitely worth listening to and he makes himself available to give info and advice. Who else does that on such an open basis?
I’m working in a different sector of the health and fitness industry and I can see how complementary wbv and other forms of exercise can be. I see guys (and girls) every day who would benefit from adding wbv to their program. It works in complementary yet a different way to other resistance and cardio training.
MikeyB, Are you either feeling threatened by the wbv industry as a whole or you have some problem with Lloyd. Go hard, Mikey. I did and now I have to admit Lloyd does know it all and what he doesn’t know he will find out or design himself. *laughs* I’m still trying to prove him wrong on any small point just for the satisfaction but alas, it isn’t so. You still haven’t made a time to meet up and try out some machines. I know you’ve been to another studio and had questions that weren’t fully answered first visit so why not ask again.
Dear Loydd:
How about the ‘k-1 Platinum’ by Aestetic MD? Is it ‘real” or ‘Memorex’? Honestly, it seems too good to be true…let me know what you think, t.
A basic Pivotal machine that should do the job for a home user , but a few concerns with the company selling it.
(1) Their own Doctors warn against unsupervised use , but they sell them to the public anyway.
(2) They heavily promote special diets and HRT to give results. Which is not needed with a decent unit .
(3) They say you should never do Lineal vibration , but use well known tests from Lineal machines to sell results.
The machine may be ok to purchase , but I would not trust any information attached to it.
This from our auction site here in N.Z. from the sellers of Crazy-Fit , Vibra-Slim etc…
7 bolikon and crazy fit massage units selling cheap. Some are noisy. Some have buttons playing up etc. Would need technical knowledge to know how to fix. Between the 7 units, there should be a way to have at least a few running effectively.
NOTE: This would only be suitable for a technical type of person
Crazy fits were selling for $895 each this time last year. Good profit potential!
NOTE: Pickup only
Happy Bidding!
- Marge Parson
December 9th, 2007I know another name for the VibraSlim it is called “The Tone In Ten” http://www.toneinten.ca/home.php. They are separte distributors.
I am reading your site for the first time. I want to buy a WBV unit. I was using the Proellixe with a trainer – I injured my back severely this past year –and I became intrigued with the technology. I would like to purchase a WBV for the home so my family could use it. My son for strength and training, my daughter for weight loss and toning and me for health reasons to increase my bone density and improve my back strength. I am on a limited budget -$1500. I was going to buy the Slimvibes, but now I am not so sure. Why do you not like this? Do you know what type of machine this is- lineal or pivotal. The more I study the less I know and understand. I thought that one machine could do it all- I guess the marketing really is deceptive. Please advise me on the best home based machine. TY
Cheers Marge in Canada.
October 14th, 2007
One Austraian company saying this as a hook line…
Mine’s Better than Yours….
….. with various bodies and organisations, distributors and manufacturers
all claiming the high moral ground with regard to effectiveness and outcomes
- purporting superior performance over their competitors….
And the good old…
A gaggle of celebrities and models - such as Madonna, Jessica Alba, Claudia
Schiffer and Heidi Klum have been known to be users…..
Note: They again use the results from a large steel machine as proof it
works…
http://www.reflexbodyplate.com/article1.html
This in my opinion is profiteering plan and simple .