Debunking Whole Body Vibration
Personal Trainer Sal Marinello does a (second) thorough debunking of vibration training machines.
In the May 2007 edition of the (NSCA) Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, there are four studies that deal with the effects of WBV and the results of these studies do little to further the claims of WBVers that this mode of training is suitable for the masses. As a matter of fact these studies should serve to marginalize WBV, as consumers see how ineffective WBV is.
Marinello goes on to explain that only “the infirm” should be exposed to WBV training, and that research doesn’t really support benefits for those “who are in shape”.
The marketing types that are trying to push these ineffective and expensive pieces of equipment on the unsuspecting public will invoke the meaningless intricacies that they alone have developed with regard to the “science” behind the WBV fad.
67 Comments
- Di Heap
June 2nd, 2008Jerry, If you want to learn about Vibration Training you can read the articles on this website. If you want a personal trainer then maybe go to the site you have linked to on your name (not a recommendation as I am not even in the same country as them).
- Di Heap
June 2nd, 2008Jerry, I have just looked at another fitness site and again I see your viral marketing. It suggests that the personal trainers you are advertising are not very good at what they do, if you need to spam websites *laughing*
And Scottsdale is the area the Europlate guys are from.
Happy coincidence ?
It doe’s not matter when you do exercise with personal trainer….
- Bonnie
August 31st, 2008I’m looking into a unit perhaps several for my pilates and dance studios. I’m in the US and am having a hard time finding any wbv units to try in my area (i’m looking in a 200 miles radius). I’ve read till I’m cross-eyed about all the different models. Can you tell me if MedVibe is truly manufactured in the US? I would hate to buy a knock-off machine after 2 months of research. My studios are very small and don’t have the high-volume of a normal gym. We do personal training on reformers mostly and we teach students who want to dance as a career. I thought this WBV training would be effective for injury prevention and post rehab. Your comments and insight would be very appreciated.
Are you wanting to do Pilate type poses on the machines or High Energy Vibration Training ?
The Medvibe units are made in Korea but are better quality than other units from Asia. The owner of MedVibe has been upfront about where the are made in the past. Please confirm this is still the case.
- Bonnie
September 1st, 2008First, thank you for answering my question. So far the gentleman from medvibe has been very upfront in all of our initial chats. I was waiting to hear from you to continue to ask questions about his product. I am interested in helping my clients meet their personal goals…most of my clients are the parents of the dance students. I would like to see the WBV as part of their pilates reformer training, 50 minutes reformer, 10 minutes WBV. I work on stability and alignment issues and also it’s been great for those who have just been diagnosed with osteoporosis or osteopenia. From what I’ve read WBV would be a great addition to what they are doing now. I would also like to have more of the population that is currently frightened of working out be able to strengthen themselves with the WBV. Then they might get to a level to be able to feel comfortable doing other forms of “movement/excercise”. So, I guess to answer your question…I don’t think I’m going to have too many of my clients bounding onto the WBV to maximize their strength. Posing sounds good for now. LOL
My advice would be to buy half of what you want Lineal the other half Pivotal. So your customers not only get a choice but better overall results.
Sal Marinello changes his mind…..
In this review he clearly states Vibration Training may be as good as resistance training , using a weighted vest , plyometrics or taking stimulants .
His ONLY objection now is the price.
That’s a big shift from…
It cant work for anyone because its based on flawed science.
It’s hardly a change of mind. He’s saying WBV may be able to elicit some training responses and even that’s a stretch - but the same responses can be gained other ways.
He simply will not back down until the evidence hits him right in the face…and it will when his clients leave to train with other trainers who recognise the rapid benefits in short time that using Vibration Training gives, plus it’s use in therapy. Getting players back into top form in shortest time.. oops I’m sounding like an advertisement.
His ONLY objection now is the price.
What the….??
A personal trainer is at least $40 a session plus gym membership cost, vibration training is $10 at most places with a trainer for free, this guy is losing his argument fast.
Talk about having egg on your face….To put Sals new opinion in perspective , here are a few quotes from his past articles….
“WBV shouldn’t be taken seriously.”
“WBV does nothing to improve muscle tone and balance”
“it doesn’t matter what company makes this type of machine, as they are all junk.”
“in an effort to clarify, I think wbv is garbage. the different machines are just different brands of garbage.”
” the fantasy of WBV.”
“WBV is useless “
Sal has shown up at that article in the comments below.
- Erik
November 13th, 2008A recent publicated Swedish study shows that exposure to vibration is a risk factor for myocardial infarction.
Take a look at: http://www.diva-portal.org/umu/abstract.xsql?dbid=1903
Erik, Have you read any of this site? have you even seen a Vibration Training/Therapy Machine?
The study you’ve linked is about exposure thru hand/arm to heavy work related vibration such as earth moving or compacting machinery.This site is about Controlled Whole Body Vibration via a designed Vibration Machine - Very Different!
- Erik
November 13th, 2008Di,
Please do not just read the abstract, read the whole article and then make your comment.
Eric….
(1) We warn against deliberate over exposure ( re occupational ) to vibration on this site all the time. The risks are well known and 50+ yrs of ISO 2631 guidelines already address most issues.
We were the first hard core proponents of restricted use of Vibration for Training purposes.Note: No increase in actual death by myocardial infarction within the occupation of engineering or jewelers as opposed to average populations has ever been recorded in N.Z. Australia. U.K. or U.S.
Armed Forces records in the U.S. and Australia ( where over-expose in tanks and helicopters etc.. is common ) also show no increased incidences.
Disclaimer: I can only comment on records I had access to .
(2) Vibration Training increases heart rate and blood oxygen levels simultaneously so may skew results for heart-rate activity and individuals may have different reactions.
Note: I have seen athletes get off breathing heavily but have had asthma sufferers claim they breath easier for days after training.
I agree this needs to be studied more .
(3) All workouts are a risk factor for myocardial infarction by proxy. But the benefits outweighing the risks has never seen health professional recommend stopping these activities and they never will.
EG. In the morbidly obese all exercise is a risk factor but if they don’t exercise they will die. Damned if you do , damned if you don’t
Final note…..
All activities have inherent risks attached , studies into Vibration Training by academics would be taken more seriously and be useful to the industry if they understood this compromise and worked within the mindset of how to make people “safer” not “safe”.
Erik, I’m going to let others more knowledgable answer you but I will briefly reply:
The conclusions points of that study are so vast that immediate directives and probably regulation would be taken to restrict all vibration related activities if they were true.
The Study involves primarily work related stressors of hand arm vibration and wbv, dust and noise over time periods very much longer than the short bursts of controlled wbv (30 sec-120 sec x 6-10) that users of Vibration machines deliberately expose themselves to. The allostatic load differs enormously. The neural and neuroendocrine stress response differs enormously. The opposite effects occur - stress hormones are reduced. The mind knows that the vibration stress is temporary and can be stopped at any time. Yes, the body responds to the stress imposed just as it does to conventional resistance exercise, but you are missing the point, it is - Controlled which is not the same using as Industrial Vibration day after day as an occupation.
I have risk factors for CVD and MI. I use WBV as part of a lifestyle change to reduce these factors and it works! I’ve even used a Vibration Training Platform while wearing a ambulatory blood pressure monitor and I’m sure my Cardiologist would have complained if the recording showed me to be in any way unsafe.
Erik, I’d appreciate it if you tell us more of your background and why you are concerned about wbv.
Di, & Lloyd
My first reaction to the headlines was similiar to yours Di. You see, I´m involved in this business as much as you are. Together with my partners I am running a rehab center just outside Stockholm, Sweden.
As a practitioner in manual medicine I have been working with WBV since 2001, started with NEMES and now, after testing a numerous of machines through the years(Never completely satisfied with the specs of the machines dominating the EU market),i am now building my own, Swedish made, all steel commercial devices.
The exposure, amplitude and accelerations parameters used in the study (10 hz and 5 m/s2) was not in line with the modern lineal WBV units used today. But we can easily see that vibration is a powerful thing that has to be used carefully and with knowledge.
Sorry to say, even from manufacturers side today there is sometimes very little knowledge about possible risks with over exposure and using frequencies causing a resonance in internal organs.
I believe it is important to discuss benefits as well as possible risk factors related to vibration training and I hope we are prepared to share information related to this issue. For that reason, I believe, it was important for participants of this forum to take a look at this article.
(Sorry for the one non English website. Maybe the automatic translation program will make some understanding)
Erik..
I thought you had been on here before, maybe using your full name would be helpful so we know you are not a consumer or inexperienced academic.
Nice to hear someone coming into the commercial market , Europe needs it badly.
lloyd,
Yes, Europe needs it, that´s right But just selling the machines is not good enough. There is a lot of high quality WBV-training devices out there that isn´t used properly or not used at all because the consumer who bought them doesnt understand the concept.
Like Vibra-Train we are not selling to the average consumer. To be able to make full benefits out of our machines we believe in education as the most important matter.
So, as customers we are welcome all therapists and practisioners who we believe has the background to assimilate our collected knowledge. WBV therapy and training deserve to be treated with respect. Properly used it can really help people who suffers from a wide range of symptoms and then make them stay healthy.
A question to you Di & Lloyd.
- Why, do you think, has vibrationtraing become such a big sucess as it seems to have been in NZ?A number of things…
(a) Rules and regulations around the use of the product were put in place from day one with me going one step further and putting it into legally binding contracts.
Hint: NO is the most powerful word you can have in your business vocabulary .
(b) The prices were set in stone and based on the average worker being able to afford it 3 times a week as recommended.
(c) Most important: True commercial products with workout capabilities to back up the hype.
Essentially we have spent 3 yrs building up the foundation and benchmark of an industry instead of just marketing the theory and potential .
Some of the above might now be hard to implement in Europe due to Power Plate “selling out” the industry so early on and setting the standard so low. Even though some “marketing types” did follow suit here in N.Z. their failure in the commercial market means no-one takes them seriously.
Lloyd, now I understand why you sometimes copy into here the posts you put on other forums. I spent a long time writing a reply on Sal Marinello’s Healthy Skeptic Forum. My post was live for an hour and has now been removed along with some of the others. Sports and Fitness Trainers who continually refute the fact that Controlled Whole Body Vibration gives amazing results will one day pay a high price for their blatent misleading of those who pay them for accurate advice!
Wow, I complained about my post being deleted and I got a reply and am able to re-post a comment on the article so regardless of why it was removed (It was not rude nor insulting) it’s good to see that freedom of speech is allowed.
http://www.healthandfitnessadvice.com/the-healthy-skeptic/the-health-skeptic-an-update-on-whole-body-vibration-training.htmlHe deleted mine as well. Who did you complain to ?
I reposted something similar …..
Could someone please explain why my last post was deleted and could it be put back up ?
Sal has made numerous public statements stating clearly everyone is being dishonest in regards to Vibration Training and it cant do “anything” and it is “useless”.
To back up his agenda he mislead his readers with nonfactual/unscientific statements of his own. I want to know why he thought it was ethical to do this.
Sal , once again why did you tell your readers that Vibration Training platforms give you electric shocks ?
June 1st, 2008
send me the details of personal trainer i have to check it…