Debunking Whole Body Vibration
Personal Trainer Sal Marinello does a (second) thorough debunking of vibration training machines.
In the May 2007 edition of the (NSCA) Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, there are four studies that deal with the effects of WBV and the results of these studies do little to further the claims of WBVers that this mode of training is suitable for the masses. As a matter of fact these studies should serve to marginalize WBV, as consumers see how ineffective WBV is.
Marinello goes on to explain that only “the infirm” should be exposed to WBV training, and that research doesn’t really support benefits for those “who are in shape”.
The marketing types that are trying to push these ineffective and expensive pieces of equipment on the unsuspecting public will invoke the meaningless intricacies that they alone have developed with regard to the “science” behind the WBV fad.
50 Comments
- Di Heap
July 19th, 2007For reasons only known to himself Sal Marinello has completely dismissed WBV as a fad. He’s a private Professional Strength and Conditioning Coach plus Head football and strength coach/trainer in a High School, so he’s doing a disservice to the those he’s supposed to be helping by his refusal to even try WBV for himself.
He puts all variations of WBV into one grouping and so he comments on hand held vibrating dumbells as if they were a high force vibration machine. He uses any results he can find of Studies that show poor or inconclusive results to further his claims and he writes of a positive result study as if it were suggesting reluctant acceptance to the remote possibility that WBV “might” work in “some” situations, using the careful wording of the study result as if it were something negative.
In fact that study shows what I already know from my partner and my own experience…Energy Expenditure and Perceived Exertion are higher when doing semi-squat position with vibration compared with non vibration squat and heart rate isn’t significantly changed. Also EE and PE remain higher during recovery.
So, to quote from the study result [Thus, it would appear that HS (half-squat)strength training could be rendered more energy-efficient through the addition of vibration. Moreover, it would be feasible to introduce vibration exercises into regular training programs, particularly those whose key objective is muscle hypertrophy along with fat reduction.]
Sounds good to me and also it’s been proven in my and many others experience. I don’t understand how Sal Marinello can debunk this… myopic perhaps?
Note: Most invention is 99% failure only 1% success.
People who do not invent but only report seldom understand this . The concept that everything we use from cradle to grave is credited to people who think outside the square is beyond some .
There is nothing wrong with being a “user” of items , as we are not all intelligent enough to be inventors, but to defiantly refuse to aknowledge where these ideas came from is silly.
Hell I still get freaked out at how someone came to invent my radio. It caves my head in.
And funny enough…
This is the response David Sarnoff got from his associates in response to his urgings for investment
in the radio in the 1920s.“The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay
for a message sent to nobody in particular?”I suppose I should thank Sal for drawing attention to the comments from the latest research…
“WBV will be an ideal therapy for people with low-performance capacity”
“Appears that half-squat strength training could be rendered more energy efficient through addition of vibration,”
“feasible to introduce WBV into regular training programs for purpose of muscle hypertrophy and fat reduction.”
- Robert
July 23rd, 2007By attacking this fellow instead of providing evidence is rather dull.
I think that more research needs to be done into WBV, I keep an open mind and hope that credible evidence will come to light. Whatever the outcome, the technology appears to be promising.
WBV will never replace another form of exercise despite any claims. WBV is not the best form of training either as there is no best form of anything.
WBV might be good to add to a proper exercise program, and not marketed as “THE” only exerise regime you will need. Sorry but this is what it is being marketed as by pretty much everybody.
Also there should be a section here with “Research Links”, right next to the vendors and terms. Then this forum might start to achieve more of its purpose.
The problem is Robert the past research has been crap. Never helped me a bit.
And the new researchers seem to be flying blind into some areas.
The reason for giving Sal a rev-up is his approch to new products or ideas. He simply doesnt like them , and he teaches kids at a high school ?
My comment to Sal about our method to help fight obesity… Oct/2006
“What I am saying is these people need a stepping stone to simple movement. Not a size 8 bikini. They are beyond our standard advice. Which is what the ” fitness industry ” has refused to acknowledge.
- mike Hair
July 23rd, 2007Robert
I can’t recall anywhere on this forum where somebody has stated WBV is “THE” only excercise regime you will need.
Hell of operated my own studio for 18 months and i have never claimed WBV to be the whole answer, in fact i encourage all my clients to go to a gym or at the very least start a walking programme. WBV is simply another tool in the training tool box, and a very effective one at that.
Maybe you were reading the wrong forum?As far as Lloyd attacking Sal, The guy has written about 4 papers on WBV and from what I understand he won’t even try it for himself, “now thats what I call an educated opinion” NOT!
- KG
July 23rd, 2007I recall reading over Sal’s postings on this and Lloyd’s responses at the time.
It’s really interesting from a human nature perspective regarding some athletic trainers biases and WBV or VT or whatever your preference is for referring to the topic we all come here to read up on.
A few things come to mind regarding Sal’s (and others) lack of acknowledgement:
First there are so many vibration studies that are done so many different ways on different typed subjects using different methods etc. etc. that it makes it easy to poke holes in a specific study and link that to VT effectiveness- across the board.
Is it disingenuous- yeah. Is it truthful- not outside of that specific study, its parameters and the researchers involved, but it is portrayed as VT being a waste of time/money in all applications- that’s what is wrong.
The real reason I think some people don’t want to acknowledge VT yet or at all is because(and I have seen this) some…some “old school” type trainers believe that it is “cheating” in a sense. They’ve always trained people and themselves as putting in the hard work etc. etc. Now here comes VT with all its proclaimed efficiencies and ….well, it’s a bit threatening. It should’nt be, as we all know it’s just a piece(but a very integral one at that) of a training regimen, but yikes…if you’ve devoted your entire practice to doing something one way and something new comes in that would seem to threaten that, reflexively you get defensive. Now if those same folks took the time to learn about VT and where it could apply within their training systems-they would’nt see it as a threat nor a gimmick….but that takes time/curiosity to invest in learning about it. These all over the board research studies just make it easy for them to dismiss without having learn firsthand…besides, paradigm shifts are a hassle(:
A decade from now I don’t think that resistance will be around. VT will be more visible, and those same nay-saying trainers will have seen the improvements firsthand in their colleagues or trainees they cross paths with.
I was in the same boat since I had only used a Power Plate. Then I was able to try the Wave and Hypergravity…I’m a doubting Thomas no more.
Patience y’all….Patience.
Another point to make Sal ,
I have 25 studios , lots of staff at each one, why havn’t I gotten half of them to jump on to the forums , and pose as happy customers. I could bomb the net with so much propaganda no-one would know which way was up and you know it.
I do not think you even remotely understand my ideas , which is why you are finding it hard to deal with which is Ok. But I can find no excuse for your deliberate attempt to confuse readers by suggesting electricity is the same as vibration. This was not an honest thing to do.
It was a tricky attempt to confuse the reader.
Not Cricket mate.
- Nalin
July 24th, 2007Good luck to the Ostriches! Obviously, arrogance borne of past knowledge and present success is a great bar to learning. Despite cheap, inefficient WBV units, the bottom line results people experience with WBV will simply not go away.
Theoreticians separated from practical assessments will keep theorizing while the rest of us will continue getting benefits. (Ostriches are not only native to Australia it would seem!)
Nalin
- David M. Bazett-Jones
July 24th, 2007**The following comment was also posted on the Health Skeptic blog and is posted here for your viewing on this site**
I must start my lengthy comment with the following points:
-I am a researcher, with great interest in WBV. However, I try to continue to maintain a level of questioning so that my view isn’t too biased (everyone has some level of bias). My goal is to increase the knowledge of WBV in the scientific community and hopefully, convey that to the consumer through various media (like this one).
-I do not claim to know everything about WBV and therefore, I will say that everything is much not known about WBV and we are still learning (even if some feel that it is slowly). Potential buyers must be presented with an even view of WBV; that is has some potential but a lot is still not known about it, especially over the long-term.
-I am tired of the personal attacks against myself (see comment #22) and others on these blogs and my aim in these comments is to fully inform those individuals that stumble upon this article. Hopefully they will take the time to read this far.
My comments to Sal’s article:
General Comment: When reading a research article, an individual can remove a single sentence (or part of a sentence) and discuss it as an item that is supportive of their point of view. However, this is essentially wrong when it comes to critiquing research. All information presented must be taken in the context of the article, what was measured, and the limitations (all studies have them). This is a common mistake in those who are not schooled in reading research (and reading research is a hard skill to learn). Don’t be drawn into either side of the argument by accepting this as a scientific tactic since it will only mislead you (both for and against WBV).
1) “Manufacturers . . . have seized upon an incredibly thin volume of research in order to support the claims that WBV training can improve fitness levels.”
This is a very true statement. In the world of research, WBV is a newborn baby. And manufacturers and marketers do what they do. Just because they abuse the research to support their sales though, doesn’t make WBV inherently bad or inefficient. Marketing is not limited to WBV and buyers must beware in regards to everything that is thrown at them, not just WBV.
2) “Marketers of these devices have been making the claims that WBV is ideal for all members of the population despite the lack of any real evidence.”
The fact is that we don’t know if it is “ideal” or not. As with any thing that differs from a traditional resistance training and cardio workout, almost no one will argue that it is the best or only workout, by itself. However, it might be a great starting point, temporary supplement, and addition to the norm (just as many “fads” are in the fitness industry, i.e. kettlebells or chains). Still, doesn’t mean that it is bad or inefficient.
3) “Most WBVers rely on some research done by NASA, and the former USSR”
Actually, there are over 200 articles on WBV out there (at least that I have found). Take a look at any WBV site and you will see that they list a multitude of articles (many of which don’t apply to WBV or are not full research articles at all). The NASA/USSR concept is typically used in explaining the origins of WBV. Not that much research, actually, has been published by NASA or from the former USSR. Just in July so far, there have been 2 studies published (not including a Rubin study and a direct vibration study). I would say the research is very current.
4) “Since astronauts are the only folks who are going to be weightless anytime soon, the results of zero gravity WBV studies don’t pertain to consumers.”
Actually, zero gravity does pertain since there are a huge number of the world’s population that are wheel chair bound (i.e. non-weight bearing on their legs) and thus, suffer from rapid muscle atrophy and bone loss. Since astronauts lose these even faster than these individuals or those with osteoporosis, they are a very good group to use. This is also a good model to compare to osteoporosis, a huge problem facing an ever aging generation (at least in the US).
5) “And of course there are the testimonials from those folks who have allegedly benefited . . .”
Moot point, you could say this with almost anything. All companies use testimonials or endorsements to sell things. Nothing new and not isolated to WBV.
6) “Other research touted by the WBV industry is similarly flawed and should be viewed as marketing department generated research and not scientific data.”
I would think that those individuals who reviewed the studies that you proclaim to be worthless and the journals that published them would beg to differ. While everyone is welcome to their opinion, I don’t remember what qualifications Sal has to make this judgment. Master’s or PhD degree? Or just the bachelor’s and the CSCS? Have you ever design a research study or taken a research design class? Basic or advanced statistics? Nothing against Sal but I don’t think he is qualified to critically analyze research. That is like me trying to perform open-heart surgery; I am sure I could a few cuts and sew it back together but I don’t think it would help the individual. This is directly related to my general comment as a lack of understanding of research is evident here (as it is with most who make comments on this blog).
7) “These studies rarely mention the massive expense of WBV machines and don’t include critical study and analysis that compares WBV to other, less costly modes of exercise.”
Last time I checked, the most cost effective models for fitness are gyms since resistance training equipment is also expensive. This is the model that Lloyd uses (and in my opinion, is the best). No single piece of equipment that is somewhat (and up to very) expensive is worth it by itself because no one piece is the panacea for fitness and health. For example, Nautilus started out expensive but the supply and demand of the market drove its price down; it will do the same for WBV machines. My hope though is that WBV becomes integrated in the existing gyms and is not presented as a stand-alone tool.
Also, many studies done on WBV have show it similar (not better or worse) than resistance training. Does this not qualify as “critical study and analysis that compares WBV to other, less costly modes of exercise”? Or does it only count if it supports an individual viewpoint?
“WBV will be an ideal therapy for people with low-performance capacity (muscle weakness in frail, elderly or diabetic patients).’ Emphasis is provided to reinforce the position that WBV is not suitable for people who are in shape or even remotely capable.”Just because an exercise is “ideal” for one population doesn’t mean that it is worthless for another. For a long time, it was believed that jump training in the elderly was bad for them until someone tried it and found that it is both helpful and can be related to their ability to catch themselves when falling. This is something that has been shown by research.
9) “WBV training needs to be performed at joint angles similar to angles used in the performance task to be improved.” This reality makes WBV impractical for the vast majority of the population and certainly for anyone who isn’t extremely limited.”
Actually, this is a common theme in resistance training. It is called sport-specific training. Why would you require an adult of average health do perform deep squats? This doesn’t make sense, is not functional, and does not enhance (and may worsen) their workout. If an individual can only move in a restricted range of motion, wouldn’t that be better than not moving at all?
10) “It’s worth noting that this is the first study to investigate the acute effect of UBV as it pertains to sport-specific strength and power, and the researchers found that UBV had no effect.
This is very different than WBV and should not be listed in the same group. A light-weight, vibrating dumbbell would not create enough tension in the muscle in order to cause a reflex of the amount necessary to elicit increase neuromuscular activation. Whereas, standing or squatting causes an increased tension in the muscle and vibration can be transmitted more efficiently. Don’t confuse yourself and everyone else into believing that this type of vibration is the same as WBV.
11) This “science” is nothing more than marketing materials on steroids that are designed to intimidate and confuse people into thinking that WBV is a valid mode of training. Throwing scientific sounding terms at people is a tactic used by supplement and equipment companies in an effort to generate sales.
This is a very good point; however, it has been phrased in the wrong way. The “science” of WBV (which there is a science behind it) is being used in the unethically by marketers in that they present a bunch of articles on their web sites thinking that quantity will show that WBV works. I have seen articles on sites (including vibra-train.com) that have utilized a study called “Suppressive mechanism of gastric mobility by WBV”, showing their obvious need to provide any research just to obtain quantity. In reality, this industrial study showed that WBV at 4 Hz for 10 minutes causes some gastrointestinal symptoms (i.e. reduced mobility due to suppressed intestinal muscle activity). I don’t know why someone would want to show this as backup for their device or training method, but it is there in many places. This is a perfect example of misused research, not bad science.
12) “Only the most infirm should be exposed to WBV training”
Great point because WBV is going to increase in the treatment of different neuro-, muscle, skeletal conditions. It will be a great rehabilitation tool and will be used all over the world. Of this, I am confident.
13) “These researchers found that squatting at a greater frequency helps to maximize energy expenditure during exercise with or without WBV.”
It is too bad you took this sentence out of context since the next sentence says that “cycle time duration (how fast they squat) must be controlled with vibration exercise is applied”. This is applicable to future research on WBV and energy expenditure since how fast individuals squat on a platform changes the energy expenditure (something to be controlled for in future research).
This study also indicated that “WBV may also be of interest to those who exercise, at least partly for weight control.” This means that WBV helps with individuals who need to lose weight (many of us). Furthermore, this study reports that individuals wanting to lose weight should perform slower movements on the WBV machine in order to metabolize fat. The article goes on to say that individuals also need to change their diet for results in order to achieve a negative energy balance (i.e. lose weight).
14) “PE is measured by the researchers’ observations as to how hard the subjects are working at a given task”
Sorry but you need to review your textbooks for what PE is. It is also called the Borg Scale and is actually a measure of the participants’ perception of how hard the task was. When this is done before and after an activity, it has been found to be a reliable (is consistent) and objective tool. If this study is flawed because of this test (which it is not), then there are over 2000 articles that are flawed because they use this scale as well, and many of them are traditional resistance training studies. Ironic, isn’t it?!?!
- Di Heap
July 25th, 2007This link goes to a “Daily Mail UK” news site and shows a pic of Madonna purportedly after using Power-Plate. Warning! Page is graphic and funny! (in my opinion).
No way would anyone end up looking like that from using WBV. I hope not! Maybe I should send the pic to Sal to show him that WBV does work but I suspect Madonna’s vegan diet and any other exercise regime she follows is creating that effect more so than WBV or maybe the pic has been airbrushed and it’s a joke.
I like one of the comments on that page: “Public warning: women, please do not aspire to look like this.”
- Di Heap
July 25th, 2007
and No, I’m not just jealous of her figure although I could do with losing a few pounds. She does look great except for the wasted away arms. I wonder if her legs look similar? - Scott Sherman
August 2nd, 2007It has been interesting reviewing the dialogue on WBV. I am an orthopaedic physical therapist investigating the potential benefits and merits of WBV for use in a clinical setting. I will have an opportunity to ‘demo’ a device in a week however it seems clear to me from the dialogue that the ‘jury is still out’ on WBV? Yes? Without research to support its efficacy and safety for use on a patient population I would find myself in a court room fairly quickly should a patient of mine suffer some untoward response whether it be as a result of WBV or not! I will at least take the time to test one (Vibraflex made by Orthometrix) and evaluate it for myself. Many of the comments made regarding human physiology and principles of sport/activity specific traing are correct. WBV would have little value unless you could also mimic some sort of functional movement while using it? We live in an ‘isotontic’ environment which is also why Nautilus is not a ‘functional’ way to train your muscular system. It is safer due to the variable resistance thru range and would me more appropriate in a rehab setting rather than as part of a ‘normal’ exercise program.
I would welcome any comments/recommendations from those that know much more about WBV than I on their perceived benefits to clientele in an outpatient clinical setting.
Regards.
- David M. Bazett-Jones
August 2nd, 2007Scott,
You are absolutely justified to be cautious in regard to WBV. There is much that is not known about it, especially when looking at a clinical population. As a Certified/Licensed Athletic Trainer (Athletic Therapist in many other countries), I am appreciative of the population that you serve. As a research, I feel this population is where the most benefit can be elicited from WBV and this is where much of my research is beginning to go. I feel that WBV initially (and conservatively) can be used as a warm-up for this population. Take a person who is relatively immobile. WBV might increase the range of motion so that the individual has greater mobility to perform an exercise. Chronic use has been shown to increase strength, even in a static position; which is all an immobile individual can do. There are many possibilities and functional applications since strength and mobility are not as important factors as they are in the isotonic environment.
As always, caution is necessary because WBV manufacturers want us to believe that it is the panacea for all that ails the world. However, much still relies on theories and a small amount of research. I don’t feel that you would have legal worries with using this, especially if you can run it by the patients’ MD. There are a few conditions that are contraindicated for it but other than that it is safe in relatively short amounts of time (5-10 minutes). Give a try and ask to keep the machine for a bit so you can try it out before committing.
My two cents.
- Di Heap
August 3rd, 2007David, Reading over previous posts I see this comment
[My hope though is that WBV becomes integrated in the existing gyms and is not presented as a stand-alone tool.]
Above you state that you are a Certified/Licensed Athletic Trainer. I am not qualified in anything that relates to Athletics so you could say that I am not qualified to have an opinion but I do have one on this topic: I hope that WBV never becomes solely integrated into Gyms. In fact I’d like to see it taken out of Gyms altogether (this is my opinion and I don’t know what Lloyd or any other Manufacturer or Instructor thinks). Scott Sherman is concerned about the use of WBV in an Orthopedic clinical setting and you answer that he is justified to be concerned. This makes your previous statement hard to understand. WBV is a very specific “tool” and there is need for an Instructor even for those who are very familiar with the program and machines as these people sometimes make serious mistakes with positions and machine settings. I am in a Studio often enough to have observed this first-hand.Why bother with Scientific studies if the end result of these is to reduce WBV to it’s lowest common “safe” denominator and place machines in the corner of gyms for unsupervised use. I’ve seen a paper where Power-Plate states that, that is acceptable use so maybe it depends on the type/force/suitability of the brand of machine and of course I can only comment knowledgeably on this, on the machines I use but, heck, I’d have hurt myself long ago If I’d been allowed use in a Gym without a specifically trained Instructor.
- David M. Bazett-Jones
August 3rd, 2007Di,
You are always allowed to have an opinion (since you present it as an opinion and not a fact). And just because you are not involved in athletics doesn’t mean you know nothing on the topic. Your confusion by my comment is justified; let me explain further.
I actually agree with Lloyd that WBV machines could be dangerous if people take them home and abuse them. This is the same with supplements like Ephedra (used for centuries in the Eastern world but abused by people who believe more is better). Everything can be dangerous if abused. My hope is that WBV will be integrated with conventional gyms (i.e. access to resistance training and cardio, which could also be in a WBV studio) to offer the full array of options to users. I don’t think they should be set in the middle of the floor and be allowed to be used free reign. This is dangerous. I would hope that people can become certified to use WBV machines and that all machines would have card readers on them so that only individuals who have much experience or those who have an accompanying professional can use them. Now this is probably idealistic but I am entitled to my hopes.
My comments to Scott were made because he no doubt will have the VibraFlex people telling him that it is the best thing since sliced bread. It is a very specific tool and it would require that he does his reading before he uses it. However, from what I have seen, there are not any recommended programs for specific orthopedic concerns. So should he be told not to use it? No, he should be educated (as much as possible) as to the cautions with this technology. Some of this information can be found on this site. Maybe Lloyd would even write an article with me to help these clinicians. Who knows! But this technology should not be withheld from this population when so many could benefit from it. Optimism must be accompanied by care and caution (not rejection).
- Jon
August 8th, 2007A different take on all of this……
Currently, there is no regulating board to discern which WBV producte are truly effective. Furthermore there are now over 100 manufacturers of WBV products and almost no one is producing thier own research.
What the public needs to be informed of is that ALL VIBRATION MACHINES ARE NOT THE SAME. Some of these cheaper Chinese models are slapped together, packaged and sold to make a quick buck. I liken these cheaply manufactured machines to the crap you buy on infomercials.
For example in the physical therapy world, commercial TENS units are used for nuero-muscular stimulation. When this technology was exploited by AB Belt products– the market got to its greedy ways. Cheap chinese manufactured products began showing up on store shelves and people began to get hurt because the products were shocking people beyond that product’s intended use.
The only way to prevent this from happening with WVB is to regulate it. All of this bogus supportive reseach that some of these companies use has to stop. I can’t stand it when a company distributing a vertical vibration platform uses supportive research that was done on a tilting platform. Once again ALL WBV IS NOT THE SAME. Each WBV manufacturer should be required to adhere to specific testing standards and publish their test results. This should help keep the industry honest.
I beleive than many consumers who have tried the cheaper models will see few effects from WBV. Some of them might even go on to discredit the technology altogether(Sal are you paying attention?) Anyone who has been on a commercial grade tilt or vertical vibration unit will tell you of thier mostly positive experiences.
My personal experience is definitely a positive one. I have been researching and promoting the use of WBV for almost 2 years now. Recently I began Medvibe - a company dedicated to supplying quality WBV products to the Medical and Fitness communities. Our first product the
MV-Pro will mostly be reserved for Gyms, Doctors, PT’s and Chiropractors.It is a tilt vibration platform run on a BLDC motor with 35 adjustable speed settings. Recently the product was used in an Orthopedic Surgeons office for post-op rehabilitation. This Doctor has and will be testing the effectiveness of my WBV unit on post total hip and knee replacement on some of his patients.
Dont think this is a miracle solution– medical advancement are made by trial and error. My hope is that certain WBV machines gain recognition as effective complimentary or supplementary training methods for rehab.
Also LA Fitness in Scottsdale, Arizona is testing my product for their Body of Change personal training program. I put every trianer at that location through a demonstration workout. The responses were very positive. One trainer even said she was feeling muscles engage which she couldn’t duplicate on any other machine in the gym.
LLoyd– you mentioned in a post above that you could have some of your trainers flood this site with testimony. Please do?
I will keep you all posted on the result form both the surgeon and the Trainers as soon as I hear more from both of them. Until then— does any one have any suggestions on product testing requirements?
The basic test you need done for a Pivotal unit is this…
(a) Have an accelerometer put on one end of the platform.
(b) Gets Fq and 0-peak amplitudes taken on zero weight , then at least 3 different weights up to say 150kg on a medium speed ( 12hz ). All speeds could be done but it would cost you a fortune for the results to be drawn up.
Getting 3 weights on 1 speed will give you a good indication as to the quality of the unit. You can perform more tests later if you can jusitfy the costs.
Note: Must be human weight in correct position.
(c) Check if they match up with those given by the manufacturor . Remember you need to double the figure with a Pivotal unit to give the vibrations per second if they have added the two halves of the vibration together to get their Hz rating.
I would be very surprised if it didn’t pass , as getting a Pivotal unit to not lose power is very easy. As the load is primarily on the axis , very little load is actually on the motors.
If all is well you now have a good starting point to do tests.
- Di Heap
August 8th, 2007Jon, Do you have a website that tells about your Medvibe machines? I’m not sure you are allowed to post it in here but google only brings up your myspace page.
- Jon
August 9th, 2007LLoyd– Thanks for the advice on testing regulations- I will see if we can get that done soon. As for our website, its underway. In the midst of all these product demo’s, I was barely able to break the product away for a photo shoot. All the images went to our graphic designer yesterday and should be up on the site in a matter of weeks.
I stopped into LA Fitness today to get a work out in and spoke with some of the personal trainers. They all seem to love it. One of the managing trainers stated that he was warming his clients up on the MV PRO before their resistance work outs. He claims that some of his clients increased their resistance weight by 30- 40 lbs from his record of thier last work out. He noticed separation in his quadriceps which he claimes he had never seen before. Additionaly he noticed the most common immediate benefit of flexability.
Hopefully this technology lands in a huge chain Gym like LA Fitness so that it can be tested thoroughly and gain the recognition that it deserves.
The demo unit goes back to the Orthopedic surgeon monday for more testing on his patients. He will most likely purchase a unit for his practice and promote it to his patients. I will inform of the results when I hear more.
- Scott Sherman
August 9th, 2007Hello all. I came back to this site today to see if there were any replies and the dialogue and information has been very helpful. I meet with the sales representatives later today and can share with you my thoughts afterward. I noted in the dialogue there are different types of WBV - vertical, lateral, and tilt? It would seem to me that the type of WBV would be very important as each delivers ‘energy’/ ’stress’/ ‘loading’ in a different way which is likely to elicit different responses by the body? Is there any agreement out there, or any research supporting one type over another??
I questioned our provincial regulatory body here in Alberta about WBV and this was their reply:
“As Pedro is listing it, and WCPT (World Congress P.T.’s) had PT’s making presentations on vibration, we conclude that it is an emerging technology and probably does not fall in the complimentary domain but rather an adjunct to other training tools.”
I will need to clarify exactly what this means however they are approaching WBV cautiously.
Regards,
Scott Sherman
- mike Hair
August 9th, 2007Hi Scott,
Povitol and lineal work the body in 2 different ways, read Lloyds article Pivotal and Lineal Machines on this site for a good explanation.
The biggest issue I see in the future are the plates with “uncontrolled vibrations”, they always call them Tri-something which means they move in 3 different planes during each vibration.
This will cause shearing action on joints which in no way complies with even the thoery of what we are doing. And is the result of bad engineering.
- Di Heap
August 9th, 2007 Copied direct from a website ” Our three-dimensional vibration technology “. I guess this is what you mean!Can anyone tell me of any other exercise that is 3 dimensional in that way? I can only think of 2 plane movements.
Yes funny, how some companies have spent time and money on creating Lineal systems when according to PowerPlate they shouldn’t have bothered and just made something that shakes in all directions.
Im off to pull out that old lawnmower.
- Scott Sherman
August 10th, 2007Reviewed the Vibraflex yesterday … apparently the Canadian version of the Galileo. I was suitably impressed with the response elicited and without a doubt there are applications in a rehab setting. I would be cautious however using this on fresh joint/ligament reconstructions and/or knee menisectomies/repairs? Could be a nice tool to augment rotator cuff repair rehab with the upper extremity attachment.
As a clinician I was suitably impressed. From a business model standpoint I now have to work it into a setting realizing some cost benefit. As there is limited research out there, at least that I can locate, using WBV in a clinical setting it would be difficult to endorse the benefits using it in rehab protocols without studies saying so. Nonetheless I think some patients would recognize the machine as a value added supplement to their program.
I haven’t received any pricing info yet. Perhaps that will be a stumbling block. I can warm a patient using the traditional hot pack rather than an expensive WBV machine??
Regards,
Scott Sherman
- Gail Walter
August 12th, 2007Hi Scott
I am from Edmonton, Alberta. Have you looked into the Wavexercise machine manufactured in Toronto? I had a chance to try one and review it and thought it to be excellent with my lay person knowledge.
- Scott Sherman
August 13th, 2007No I haven’t Gail. A patient of mine has joined the salesforce of Orthometrix and is selling this machine. This is how I came into contact with WBV. I was not actively searching out companies. Since the background of this machine is the Galileo and it has a track record of construction and research I would tend to stay with this unless another product suitably compares.
- Jon
August 14th, 2007Ok Im not making it a point to rip on Powerplate but I found this article that sheds light on thier unethical practices. The last line of this mentions a lawsuit from a New Zealand subsidiary. Lloyd- is that your doing?
Yes but they got it wrong..
PowerPlate lost those points in an injunction they tried to put on me. And in fact I got a signed affidavit from the CEO of PowerPlate N.Z. Ltd saying the machines are indeed built in China and not Europe as they claimed.
They lost another appeal last week agianst some court action I had on them. The judge said they could no longer apply for any more appeals.
Time for action.
- Jason
August 16th, 2007Hallo
Recently i saw at Hypergravity’s site a new model named Gym-O-Vibe . Do anyone have some informations about this model ?It has a solid design but i didn’t notice any severe upgrade if compared with the Elite Professional Model .
What is your opinion ?
Good for high end use places like gyms. And very much a guys machine.
Been waiting to hear feedback about its function from someone , but didnt ask on here as last time we did we got bombed with dodgy customer endorsements.From an engineering point it should be sound and personally I am glad someone has produced a platform that looks serious enough to be noticed by the guys. It will help ignite the market in the U.S.
- KG
August 19th, 2007wow.
aesthetically this new HG unit looks like something right out of the terminator movies. very cool. i suppose it would be nice for gyms….but i really think that there isn’t much of a difference other than the new look to go with this new one at 11,500.
You could get the olympic professional and save around 4 grand. - Jason
August 19th, 2007Thanks KG
I have already have the Elite Professional Hypergravity model and i am very happy with it .
I agree with you that the Gym O Vibe is not worth the money because of the other great products of Hypergravity .
- Carolle
November 16th, 2007I am about to purchase the VibroGym. Do you have any comments on this WBV machine.
- Mike Hair
November 16th, 2007Hi Carolle.
Don’t get the domestic model.
The vibrogym is a great machine I have two professional models. The new evolution looks like a good model although a bit pricer. Good Luck Good Pro Machine , good company. Do not agree with some of their positions/programs though.
But in the top 5% without a doubt.
July 19th, 2007
Sorry….
This guy cant be taken seriously , he stated that ” Vibration Training cant work ” 12 months ago. With the only results he will take as proof is if athletes used in trials gain super strenght or speed. And disregarded NASAs trails as stupid since we all wont get into space anytime soon.
After 12 months he has still not trialed a unit himself , but written 4 blogs on the issue.
Critic…?
Last time I checked a real critic looked at the art , went to see the movie or at least put some effort into an opinion.
This is beyond lazy.