3 Health Concerns About Vibration Training
Note: Vibration Therapy/Training has been used successfully and safely for almost 100 years - with no problems recorded. It is only recently that marketers have jumped into this technology with no background knowledge and only sales in mind. Trust me I worked for them and their concern for your health is ZERO. Anything that may divert a sale will not be approached let alone researched. The programs I originally developed for Power-Plate where rejected due to complaints from their marketing department. Follow these and you will get all the benefits with none of the safety concerns.
Unsupervised Use
The unrestricted/unsupervised use of Vibration Training equipment has been a concern of mine since I first started writing original material in 2003. As Product Manager of Power-Plate I saw the potential for abuse of the units in several ways. Their refusal to acknowledge my concerns was one of the reasons for my departure.
Some of them being:
- Overuse
- Incorrect poses
- Incorrect Fq
I will list the reasons for these concerns and why I believe the sooner the “real” industry starts talking to each other and laying down some restrictions , the better.
Overuse
Possible symptoms include:
Chronic Fatigue
This can cause everything from just plain tiredness to a massive drop in your immune system (leading to other health disorders). This one is simple - you ask your body to do too much and it can’t keep up.Think about this; in an average Vibration Training session you may do approx. 30,000 separate movements. This is like running a marathon for most people, and because it is actually do-able for most people, it is primed for abuse. But your body simply can’t expend that amount of energy and keep going for long. You will get sick eventually.- Hyperthyroidism
This is a state where your regulatory glands are over-activated causing a large fluctuation in your hormone levels. This can lead to fluid retention, problems with hormone sensitive organs such as the ovaries (for women). At the exteme end this condition can cause multiple organ failure. Note: I have had one case reported to me so far from South Africa where a lady was using a plate for over 40 minutes a day (and she was following her instructors advice). So this theory was not a fanciful idea as was put to me when I first aired my concerns. Unfortunately I expect to hear about more such cases before anything concrete is done. - Tissue Breakdown
This is when the healing cycle is not allowed to complete itself. Your body breaks down more cells than it can rebuild before you re-damage the area. Long distance runners have always had this problem with their knees.
Incorrect Poses
This one sounds self-explanatory but it is obviously not, from what I have seen on many a Vibration Training poster sold with machines and on-line.
Our joints are only designed to work at high use at precise angles. Moving away from these angles can cause unnecessary wear and tear. It can also cause neck injuries. That is where a good instructor is very important - they will re-correct you during your time on the units so no problems occur.
Incorrect Fq
This is a tricky one as so may of the units available go to the lower Fq, hence people believe it must be safe. The fact is lower Fq should only be used for limited physiotherapy programs due to the unsafe nature of what they call resonance Fq.
This is where waves bounce off each other causing a disturbance in an area. In this case your internal organs give off their own resonance and matching these is not a good idea. They range from 5Hz-20Hz. Again misuse could cause disturbance to organ function. Keeping away from these Fq by a factor of 10Hz should allow safe use of units over a lifetime.
Note: Some cheaply built units are NOT doing the Hz setting showed on the display. Some are slowing down with only a load of 20-80kg. One major brand was tested - unloaded - and it was still slower by 13hz than its advertised specs. And that was with no-one on it.
Safety First
This article was not written to scare anyone off Vibration Training, just to show how serious we are about putting up this type of training for scrutiny . We will never create a safe industry by burying potential problems as is the normal procedure for marketers and corporates .
Written by Lloyd Shaw on May 30th, 2007
179 Comments
- Di Heap
September 4th, 2007I visited a Vibration Training Studio today that is not the same brand where I regularly train, in fact it was very different. My partner and daughter went through a basic program that was probably not the most basic as we stated that they were experienced with WBV. I wanted to get perspective from my partner who is an athlete and my rather lazier, tall, thin, teenage daughter.
A few things stick out in my mind from observing them doing the program and talking with them afterwards. The Instructor was experienced and made sure they did the positions of that brand correctly without much discussion on why. Parter and daughter both initially commented that the program was “harder” than at the brand they usually vibration train at. This interests me as they both perceived “different” as “harder”, a trick of the mind maybe as later when we discussed their experience they both said that they did not enjoy it because of the very different positions to those they are used to. They both said it was not harder so they contradicted their first statements, saying instead that it was difficult to adjust their mindset to similar yet different to known positions.
Both felt that the studio, although professional was not much fun even though we did have a few laughs (well I did when watching them and commenting at the time and the Instructor was friendly and laughed with us).
Daughter said she would not take her “boys” in to that studio (meaning all her boyfriends) and that her girlfriends wouldn’t like it either. That was an okay comment as I had asked and that Studio does have mostly older (than teens) clients and the decor and style match this rather than being for youth.
Question: Can a studio style look good to all age groups?
I also visited this Studio yesterday and was able to talk with another Instructor and watch a client doing the program. This client was a regular and recommended that brand studio as she was very happy going there. I was horrified watching the positions she was doing but she was happy (and ignorance is not bliss in WBV but I am not going to start a new argument in this forum on what positions are okay)
Daughter also said that the Instructor seemed to be doing a job, rather than being as passionate about the benefits of WBV as the Instructors she is used to. I didn’t pick up on this so it was just one person’s comment and to be fair the Instructor was very good.
The positions? Well it’s better that I don’t comment except to say that I did not like them at all and I’m glad that I didn’t do the program myself as I have too much to lose as I easily hurt my knees and also I would not have been able to contort my body into the required positions. The last time I did that sort of program on a similar machine I hurt my back and knee. The thing is, I don’t hurt them doing the WBV program at the brand Studio I go to.. Kind of makes you think, doesn’t it!
- Di Heap
September 4th, 2007My partner said he would miss a specific squat position that he does at the end of his regular WBV program where he usually goes and that the pelvic stability (plank) position difference was difficult to adjust to with upper body forward similar to a push-up position. He really disliked positions that involved lying sideways on the platform or leaning one arm on the platform and balancing body on the floor. I had to resist laughing when watching him trying to do a lunge with one foot on platform as he isn’t used to a lunge and was not balancing well.
Overall we rated the Instructor quite highly as she did her job well but didn’t really welcome questions we had and didn’t give us any information about why we should choose that brand of WBV. Maybe this would happen if we went again.
My biggest concern is that of voluntary verus involuntary muscle reflex. Tensing of abs, glutes, thighs versus remaining in a completely relaxed position on the machine plate. The tensing of muscles was explained (when I asked) as being necessary to make the muscle response better/harder. This is completely the opposite of what I understand and believe to be true in WBV.
- Di Heap
September 4th, 2007More discussion here next day has brought these comments:
Although the Instructor was clear at instructing positions on the machine she did not promote the brand or business. Knowing that we were regular elsewhere gave her an opportunity to tell us why her brand was better for us. She didn’t tell us of other components of the brand even though I expressed an interest in one of them. Another type of fitness product is run ina separate room in an agreement, run by the same Instructors, and would have been very beneficial to my partner. This was discussed very briefly in how it was managed because I asked about it. It could have been promoted to us. I am not being unfair expecting an Instructor to actively promote the business they work for, as their job depends on it.
The previous day when I first visited this brand studio another Instructor was very friendly and gave me a lot of general information about the brand and business and said that individualised programs were set up for each client. The Instructor we had did not go into this, just put partner and daughter through and then gave me a price list as we left.
An appointment based system was used so time was the limiting factor. Appointments make sense for people who want to get in and out again quickly without waiting to use machines but they make for a sterile environment compared with a no-appointment, drop- in, pay-as-you-go situation, where the studio is sometimes a meeting place for friends, a place where clients don’t mind waiting a short time, if necessary, and can stick around after their session if they want to socialise . Not that Vibration Training Studios are the local cafe but I have found some to be more friendly (which is part of our New Zealand way)than others. Background music also contributes to this.
It was interesting visiting a WBV studio that is so different to the one I regularly go to. I haven’t done this for over 4 months and I’m very interested in the differences in programs, machines and service. Maybe I should become a Secret Shopper - oh hold on, I did that for McDonalds’ restaurants when my kids were young.
Comments welcomed.
- MikeyB
September 5th, 2007Di you stated that you thought you had to stay completely relaxed when on the platform.
So when Llyod tells people to put pressure through their heels on the squat you dont believe that this is activating your Glutes more effectively and is making them tense.
When doing a Prone Plank (elbows on platform, toes on floor) do you completely relax and let you hips drop putting your back in a very dangerous position for your back. No i believe you probly keep you hips up and therefore to do this you are pulling you stomach in and activating your abs.
I think you are.
Why do you think most guys seem to fail on the machines before females doing the same exercises. Its because they generally understand slightly more how to activate the muscles and they tend to want to be in the hardest postisions. If you are more body aware you will definatly feel the exercises a lot more.
You posts have got our attention though.
Go on just give us the area of auckland that you tried a different brand. It will make it more fun when trying to guess who it was. - Di Heap
September 5th, 2007Ah MikeyB
I’ve missed you.
Taking one’s weight through the heels involves moving the body’s center of gravity more than specifically contracting muscles. You are right in saying that positions require holding the body in correct position but strongly, actively contracting muscle groups is not going to help achieve muscle strength and power with WBV. It prevents the muscle stretch and resulting reflex being as effective. You’ve got to get away from your regular, gym style safety position thinking Mikey. If I stretch and release a piece of elastic that has knots in it (already clamped down) I will get a very different response than If I stretch and release positioned but relaxed elastic.
Body size tends to play a part in who is going to fail when using the machines from what I’ve observed. So does ego! Some males simply don’t get it. They come in with their female friends and watch them train, laugh and think it looks so easy. Watching these guys fail can induce great pleasure in females.
I’m glad I’ve got your attention again. In this forum I don’t mention the brand name of studios I visit. I visited that particular studio because the business is for sale, as are quite a few similarly branded ones so that info wont help you. I wanted to see it in operation. The business price is quite low and hence the temptation but alas, I couldn’t work with the machine’s brand or program (although that would be changed). I quickly lost the temptation to change brands and so, for now, I’m staying strictly as a customer only (and keen observer of the whole industry)
- MikeyB
September 5th, 2007What I am trying to say is that you are contracting the muscles isometrically with every position you hold no matter what.
When you do a Press Up on the platform you have your Triceps, Pecs, delts etc contracted just from holding the position.
When squating you have your Quads, Hammys, Glutes holding an isometric contraction. the vibrations then work the stretch relfex within those particular muscles.
The only way that you wouldnt be contracting the muscles would be to just stand up straight. (and you would then still contract muscles so you dont fall off)When you said they had to tense their muscles i can tell you are probly talking about isometic crunches or something similar. The reason they are needed to think about their abs for these is it is the one muscle group that you can get lazy with when holding the position. If people didnt activate their abs then they will just relax them and their back will do all the work. this is of course not wanted.
You would have just thought that was weird that you partner and daughter were instruced to tense their abs as you would never have had to as Vibra Train doesnt do these exercises and the ONE ab exercise they do has your abs contracted by default.
- MikeyB
September 5th, 2007And you comment that i need to stop thinking like I would in the gym is completely wrong.
You guys arent doing the industry any favours by saying Personal Trainers do know anything about WBV and trying to shut them out.
I get really annoyed with all these people who market that WBV are all you need to do (it makes the industry look cheap like those infomercial ab flexs)
If studio owners had their clients interests 1st they would tell them that 10 min = 1hr in the gym (but only on strength gains). by just saying it equals 1hr in the gym all the females automatically relate the Gym to the Cardio area and then therefore just think weight loss.
false advertising slightly i believe.
I disagree Micky B..
It is the fitness industries past failure to place importance on strength training that has led to the over importance placed on cardio fitness and its connection to weight loss with females.
Why ?
It is cheaper and easier to get 50 woman in and out of a gym in a set time frame in a cardio class format ( just large empty space and stereo needed ) than spend the money required to fit out an entire gym with enough weight training equipment needed for all members.
One question…
Point to one advert from a gym telling woman that resistance training is needed for consistant weight management.
Isn’t failing to tell woman the entire truth paramount to false advertising ?
Re your personal trainers comment…
Send me a personal trainer I can quiz on this subject and not get the basics wrong and I will reconsider my own stance. So far I can only go on my experiences.
As for the muscle contraction question. I will need to write another essay me thinks.
- Di Heap
September 6th, 2007MikeyB
There’s a lot of info on here that covers weight loss and WBV Instructors do tell people that they need to do some cardio exercise and keep their diet within reasonable guidelines, as well as doing Vibration Training (resistance work)if weight-loss is one of their goals. You will already know that starting any exercise also starts weight-loss in otherwise inactive people and for this, good-quality vibration training is invaluable. How many obese people have you told to come in to the gym to do weights or start walking fast or running and if you have, how many have actually done it?
Quality Vibration Training is a simple start (and ongoing help) to exercise for overweight people and almost all people actually. Although at regular force WBV does not illicit much of a cardiac response, thereby making it very safe, it causes the same after effects as other resistance training, increasing BMR, and neuro effects that increase one’s sense of wellbeing making people more likely to become active in other ways. It is definitely a whole body workout though and for some people it’s all they need. Not everyone wants to become an athlete or needs to lose weight. Giving people improved general fitness, reduction or cessation in pain from various causes, seeing hands that were stiffening with arthritis open out again after one session are some of the benefits of WBV..sheesh I’m sounding like an advertisement
I don’t think the Instructor at the place we visited was a qualified personal trainer but they emphasised contraction of abs, glutes, quads as that is how their program is done. I realise that my piece of elastic example is flawed (not isometric) but that is how abs feel (knotted) when contracted. I’m getting concerned that this practice actually increases the chance of injury during WBV. Having an active static contraction and then having the effect of 30-50hz vibrations that effect a myotatic reflex of the muscle spindles, seems to me that together these bring about an uncontrolled ballistic type stretching where the person is constantly trying to keep the body contraction going even though it is being interfered with by the vibrations. I guess that’s exactly what they want. In fact in one position, as well as abs and glutes contraction, and vibrations, feet were also having to be repositioned constantly as they were slipping on the plate. How this can be beneficial is not obvious to me and my daughter has pain in her stomach and sides as a result.
Without any sort of active body contraction I have measurable body core balance and strength. Lloyd’s way works!
- Di Heap
September 6th, 2007Of course, I meant I have measurable body core balance and strength improvement.
In fact the position that I find easiest to relax into is the pelvic stability position. If you could see the advances I have made, from that position being painful even in it’s simple form, on my knees, and my imbalanced sides causing me to twist toward the weaker side, I am improved to being easily able to do the position in it’s advanced form (not on knees).
My regret is that I don’t have before and after pics, like some gyms do. Or even before and after reports, except that I did fill in an initial info form when I first went for Vibration Training. No one pays me for endorsing WBV (only celebrities get paid by some companies). I get no special benefits for what I say and I am free to visit any brand of studio I want to. I’ve found one that works for me so it’s only my insatiable curiosity that makes me go elsewhere every 3 months or so. Also many of the brands of WBV studios operate on a pay as you go basis so people are not tied into a contract. If they don’t like it or don’t see benefits they don’t return - If the advertising was so false no one would keep on training, would they.
If you’d like a try-out just let me know. I suspect you live in my suburb or nearby. We can arrange to give you a cardio workout even. Are you well built from gym work? I’d put up my partner who is probably older and a slim built endurance athlete against you on the machines. It would be fun whomever lasted the program best. I’ll even go up against you myself. Don’t laugh. You might be shamed.
- Di Heap
September 7th, 2007Hey Mikey
As always, I took careful note of my positions when doing vibration training tonight. I also checked to see if any muscles were deliberately contracted during the pelvic stability (plank) position that you commented on. I do not actively contract my stomach area at all! My weight is taken by elbows on the machine platform and my feet on the floor. It is natural to remain in this position without any abs contraction as long as one is stretched out sufficiently. In fact my hips do not sag unless I contract abs. Breathing through my nose, not mouth helps me stay relaxed. Weird isn’t it! Like I said, very different to conventional training. Don’t warn me of back injuries - the opposite has happened - back weakness has healed.
And about men being more body aware than women and choosing the hardest positions and so setting themselves up for failure. They could only do this by not following the clear instructions given. Some men fail because they are surprised at how hard it is and don’t like the minimal pain of hard work (muscle stretch and reflex) that they have no control over.
Other guys do great and after a short time they look great too!
Failing is okay though as the program is deliberately hard. I failed in one position tonight - I was tired physically and also not adequately healed from previous work.
My partner and daughter knew that they would have to contract muscle groups and do different positions than those they are used to. They were fully informed. This didn’t help when they had to do it though as the brain is trained to do the regular program so they had to work harder to do something different. They both did real well although both complained of pain in shoulders afterwards and daughter had two days of severe abs and side pain, not simple exercise pain but pain that made her feel very unwell. - Di Heap
September 7th, 2007Just so you don’t think my daughter is completely untrained. She prefers not to exercise except for walking to uni and doing some Vibration Training but she can run 5km when she has to (when I insist she enters fundraiser events with me).She finishes well ahead of me.
You seem to know about the positions and instructions given at Vibra-Train. Are you going to take up the challenge to come in and give it a go, following the instructions correctly as that’s the only way allowed - machines get turned off instantly someone is out of position or seen to be actively contracting muscles. Give it a go and then come back and comment.
Giovanni….
I notice you asked on another forum about safety concerns re Fqs ……
“I’d like to see a study that backs up this information. I believe that if people keep repeating things said or written by somebody, without using hard evidence, vibration technology risks to become very gossipy and useless.”
Plenty of studies both older and newer regarding ISO regulations have shown that lineal vibration from tools and machinery under 30hz creates a stronger resonance in the neck , lumbar vertebae , trunk , shoulders and head , than above 30hz.
http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/studentdownloads/DEA325pdfs/Hand%20Tools.pdf
Considering we are asking people to have all limbs in contact with the units on a regular basis , even hand-held tool test become relevant. True some studies vary on other warnings but remain consistant on those figures.
My non-use of those Fq in my programs are based around an overall safety mentality that is designed to boost consumer confidence.
Or what is the alternative , we all our own things and see who is right later on. Is it not better to explore those “gray zones” later when we have a mature science and market on our hands ?
- martiza
October 1st, 2007Hi Lloyd, I love Fitvibe and I am using the bullet as you recommend. Nevertheless, Fitvibe only goes from 35hz, to 40hz, to 45 hz, etc. Which frecuency will be better 40hz or 45hz ?
Thank you in advance.
45Hz to start with.
Shame some companies miss the importance of individual Fq and the options they give.
- Di
November 10th, 2007Fitvibe Excel Commercial Plate
I saw one of these in a gym and it’s a nice looking machine from a female perspective. The one I saw operated on card use basis and I didn’t get to try it but I hope to some time soon.
With reference to the this article I’m concerned about users being able to use this machine without an Instructor present. I don’t know if this happens as I was not able to try it as no Instructor was available but it seems likely that once a card is purchased the users just pops it in the machine. Programs are on the card and can be set (burnt to the card by an Instructor) for the individual user according to the fitvibe website. The specs of the machine sound, generally, okay except that it can be operated under 30hz if wanted.
IF this machine operates to specs isn’t it dangerous to allow users to just pop in their card and use it? (If that is what happens). It took me months of visits to a wbv studio before I could follow the program unaided and even now I am always watched over somewhat and still given help/correction of poses if needed which is often.
I’d like to hear from anyone who uses this model. Even if the vibration feels gentle and the time set is low It’s still possible to be out of position and therefore put incorrect force on the body. I wonder what safety mechanisms FitVibe has set in place to prevent/deter this. The card system sounds good for both users and gym/studio owners but is it?
- martiza
November 10th, 2007I BOUGHT FITVIBE EXCEL AND I THINK IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SPEND THAT MONEY. I THINK FITVIBE IS OK BUT STILL YOU NEED TO GUIDE PEOPLE , NOT LEAVING BY THEMSELVES SINCE IT IS VERY EASY TO LOOSE THE POSITION AND , SINCE LLOYD SAYS, POSITION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT. I THINK CARDS ARE NOT UNNECESSARY SINCE YOU OR YOUR TRAINERS ARE GOING TO GUIDE THE PEOPLE. DO NOT SPEND MONEY IN CARDS, SPEND THE MONEY IN THE TRAINERS WHO ARE GOING TO HELP YOU GUIDE THE PEOPLE.
Hello all,
Regarding FITVIBE line devices….
Regular readers here probably know I am running a physiotherapy & fitness training centre with FITVIBE devcies; as well as dealer of FITVIBE. Therefore I can share my experience on FITIVBE; however, I am not their official speaker.
Concerning range of frequency setting, FITVIBE divides into two line - MEDICAL and EXCEL. We use both in our centre. MEDICAL line is a earlier generation of FITIVBE and this line of devices allows frequency setting at 1 Hz step between 20 and 60 Hz. EXCEL is a later generation that is designed to look more trendy and available in two models, “EXCEL” and “EXCEL PRO”. In user mode, FITVIBE EXCEL PRO offers 5 Hz step adjustment; however, it is possible to fine tune by 1 Hz step in service mode. It is therefore not a question that the manufacturer or the Device is incapable of fine frequency adjustment; obviously, the manufacturer feels difference in 1 Hz is irrelevant in bringing significant biological effect. In my opinion, use of frequency as precise as 1 Hz difference is as controversy as if WBV is an effective physical training or not. In our practice, we mainly use frequency between 30 and 45 Hz for strengthening program and 30 Hz mostly; and these parameters work fine with our clients so far.
For the smart card system and built-in training program, I agree it is better to have an experienced WBV instructor to guide an exerciser through a training program. I bet ten people do squat, you will see ten different squatting postures. For the positive side, the card system helps operator to monitor usage; the smart card can also help to avoid unauthorized access to the device. If an operator will use this card system purely to control income; or use it as safety measure, it is up to indiividual operator.
TC
- Mike Hair
November 10th, 2007Hi Di,
I know of three gyms in the south island and one studio that have the fit-vibe, I think they get sucked into buying them because they are told that you don’t need supervision therefore less staff but make more money out of your clients.
Two of the gyms and the one studio don’t supervise the machine; I can’t speak for the third gym, as I have not had any feedback yet. One gym in town have learnt their entire training out of a manufacturer’s book how scary is that.
We have already had customers coming to us with complaints as they have injured themselves or they are just plain scared of the machine as they don’t know what to do.
Typical Gym ownership mentality, show the customer once and let them go!! No wonder people don’t last long with exercise, If gyms would employ more staff to roam the floor and help people I think we would have a much healthier society as people would stick at it. Tc…
You may want to be aware that the FitVibe Excel is being promoted as the ” built in personal trainer” in both advertising and by their sales reps.
So it is FitVibes attitude you dont need an instructor and hence you will see even more of that particular brand being left unattended.
Because of this I believe they will never be as respected in the industry as they could have been.
Anyone say ” dropped the ball”
Direct from FitVibe marketing…
“No more waiting for your fitness instructor, no more desperately scanning an exercise poster!
With the built-in Personal Coach fitvibe Excel Pro allows you to set your own goals and achieve them in a fun and safe way!”
I do not expect you to be able to say anything TC. But I also know you do not agree with this.
- martiza
November 11th, 2007Correction: I bought Fitvibe Excel Pro but I think a gym does not need to spend that kind of money . Personal coach (built in personal trainner) is not needed since all the postures are not usefull and as I said above, personal coach will be your trainner, the person who is going to guide your clients. I think bullet is excellent. Nevertheless there are few postures that can be added and two of them can be changed but I trust and follow Lloyd in his advice to do the bullet.
I think Fitvibe Excel is an excellent option , it is German technologie and we all know what does it mean: “excellency” but Fitvibe Excel Pro is not needed only if “only money” is the investor’s mind leaving clients on their own.
Hope I do not offend anybody specially Fitvibe manufacturers. If I am wrong please correct me.
- Di
November 11th, 2007Thanks for the replies. Martiza, I agree with you that a Personal Instructor is needed and no inbuilt program, that shows pictures of the positions, can ever replace real Instruction.
Thanks Mike, I haven’t been back to that particular gym yet so haven’t tried the machine myself and I was told that I needed to see a Personal Trainer to use it at first (don’t know how many times and as you know, I am well used to using a wbv machine anyway). I don’t like the overall concept of a card use system, for many reasons, although one positive is that it stops regular gym clients just jumping onto the machine.
About Gym staff, at the brand of gym I’ve just started working at, there are personal trainers on the floor and they have to speak to and help out customers when they aren’t actively involved in a private session as most are employed by the gym, not self employed. In some gyms I know that Private Trainers have their own business and maybe only help their own clients but it would be in their interests to help others, surely. In any exercise I am pedantic about doing it correctly or not at all but remember that many people/customers don’t respond well to constant “help”. (I know that in your business they get correction and help regardless)
To Lloyd,
Yes, FITVIBE marketing tries to promote this D.I.Y. concept to sell their devices.
We do not need to agree with this marketing concept; and marketing concept does not change that the German made FITVIBE devices are one of the best quality WBV devices available upon basic functions.
Regarding the FITVIBE card system, although we do not let our clients to train by themselves, we still find the card system helpful. For example, when a client comes in while one’s instructor is occupied or off duty, another instructor can still assist this client because the programmed card runs the client’s program and the instructor only needs to focus on guiding the client for proper positioning in each training posture.
To Martiza,
I totally agree with you, EXCEL can be a smarter buy instead of EXCEL PRO.
TC
TC….
I understand the reasoning , but at this early stage in the industry I see it as irresponsable when the basics are not even sorted out yet.
Companies looking for the “marketing edge” will always do this though , but I think it will actually lead to lack of respect for those companies in the long run.
Think about this , I have designed over 25 models , with some very advanced compared to what we are doing now , why dont I just release them ?
I have moved this conversation to here…
Dennis
November 19th, 2007This may be a bit off the subject, but I am interested in the vibrational training, but had a knee replacement about a year ago. Is there a danger for me to us one of the machines?
Lloyd Shaw
November 19th, 2007Talk to your doctor first. If you are allowed to exercise normally you will be fine.
Note: You will need a machine with side rails to take some pressure out of the squat.
Giovanni Ciriani
November 22nd, 2007I don’t think that there are clinical or empirical studies that have looked at the interaction between a prosthesis and the bone with WBV. I don’t expect your doctor to know much about it either.
Dennis,
What I’ve heard from a knowledgeable Strength and Conditioning coach, who uses the platform with the athletes of an Italian major-league soccer team, is the following. A metal implant is likely to start micro movements in the bone, and such movement of the implant relative to the bone is likely to be bad news. It may compromise the knee replacement.I trust the doctor who gave this advice because he also teaches Sport-Medicine at a reputable University, and has written articles on WBV.
Regards,
Giovanni CirianiLloyd Shaw
November 22nd, 2007Without 10yrs of testing we will not know for sure how this kind of training effects anything stuck in bone, does it wiggle loose or does the shock create more bone , who knows ?
But we do have one problem no-one has to guess about.
People are using these products at home and at gyms with little or no knowledge of the contraindications or dangers because everybody is either denying its happening or just giving advice not to ( which last time I checked never worked on any portion of the population).
Now this does not mean we actively promote the use of Vibration Training products on artifical body parts , but it should be addressed as a fact it will happen with or without our consent .
We need to discuss how to minimise the risks.
Di
November 23rd, 2007So how can we best minimize the risks? Using Side Handlebars definitely takes a percentage of the force into the arms/upperbody areas.
Also would you suggest a foam pad on the platform?
Lloyd, do you know the differences in the way the vibrations pass thru metal implant material compared with bone and are you able to make any judgements/suggestions based on this?
Anyone comment please: Should machines that are in gyms and beauty clinics have a large warning notice on the wall explaining risks? Especially the machines that are coin or card fed?
Does it matter which type, lineal or pivotal, machine is used for particular artificial body parts? Do designers or manufacturers EVER cover this in their promotion or usage literature?
Anything that cushions the sudden impact and pressure will definatly lessen any negative effects.
A Doctor in the U.S. who is training people with these machines during recovery is pushing for tests to be done. But that takes time.
My main point here is this..
Most people I know that have artifical joints are ex athletes or weekend warriors who did not back off their training even when their own body parts started giving out. They all would have been given the same advice , STOP.
But they kept running/playing untill it actually broke . Any risks we talk about will either be ingored or deemed acceptable.
My biggest concern are people with genetic bone problems that try to use the machines , unless the deteriation of the bone is stopped overall , you will just be shifting the problem along to the weakest link.
Turbo-Sonic at it again…..
The actual promotion of lock-legged Lineal vibration exposure. Even going as far as saying you can work out your arms and face by just standing on the machine.
- Di Heap
December 13th, 2007Interesting that in the promotion they state that they are the only real vertically vibrating machine in the market.
I often wonder how a claim like that is substantiated and I’d be visiting their sales studio to ask them, if I lived nearby.
I can now confirm that a company called International Global Concepts selling a unit in Australia called the VibroForm ( Crazy-Fit etc… ) are promoting its use 3 times a day on their flyer.
And it seems they are starting to hurt people.
I would love the media to pick up on this. I know it would hurt Vibration Training reputation short term , but it would be worth it to stop them from hurting others.
This just makes me sick.
If anyone can find an e-mail address for the above company , it would be appreciated.
They have not ansewred their ph , or called back when contacted.
- Any ideas?
February 25th, 2008I am looking for a home machine that could help with bone density. Any advice greatly appreciated!
Do you only want it specifically for bone density ?
- Any ideas?
February 26th, 2008Hi Thanks a lot for replying! What I mean is that my main target is to improve bone density. I do not tolerate drugs well and I would like to try alternative methods and then rescan at a later date to see how I am doing without drugs. I am also taking advice on supplements etc and feel that trying the vibration therapy at the same time would be beneficial. I would also like to strengthen and tone my muscles more. I am looking to add vibration therapy to my exercise routine rather than replace it.
The overall benefits of vibration therapy from what I have read in studies looks like it could help me a lot so I am of course interested in all those benefits. However if a type of machine is likely to be more effective for building / maintaining bone density then that would need to be my priority. If that makes sense! I was concerned about the warning about cheaper machines slowing down the workings of internal organs? so i realise I need to look into this carefully. Also, while I am onto someone who knows what they are talking about regarding these machines, please could you tell me if my mother could use this kind of therapy , as she has two knee replacements. Thank you! - any idea
February 26th, 2008sorry i was unclear about the knee replacements. what I meant is whilst it is uncertain whether it would be safe to for isntance stand on the machine, would it be safe to use it on other parts of the body?
(1) No machine has been shown to slow down your internal organs. A general warning is given about units that slow down when loaded due to cheap construction , as we dont want to deliberatly put body parts under resonance related stress.
Some companies are using the strangest scare tactics to get sales.
Eg… 2 motors will melt your brain ?
(2) A medium quality home unit should give you all the basic benifits you ask for.
(3) Knee replacements…. the machine must have side rails for stability and weight bearing through the arms during squat poses.
- any ideas
February 26th, 2008Thank you. When you say a medium quality home unit, is there something you could recommend, or maybe give me an idea of a price range to look at? I don’t really know what falls into medium quality because I cant believe any of the sales speak.
And two motors doesnt cause bad health after all? Phew. That was really confusing:)
Thanks a million for this.
For exercisers with metal implants, e.g. hip replacement or knee replacememt. In my opinion, as long as the implant is already bonded well in the bone, this Hyper-Gravity Stimulation Training (HGST) should be fine. Instead of contra-indication, I would say people with knee replacements will benefit from HGST. Some patients will find losing some degree of mobility after the surgical treatment. HGST may help these patients to strengthen the quadriceps and hamstrings safely; as well as to increase flexibility and mobility. However, these people with implants should also be careful since healing and bonding vary from person to person. They should consult their doctors and inform doctors that they are doing resistance exercise with HGST.
Prevention of Osteoporosis is one of the classic indications for HGST. Effect has been proved by various studies. Lloyd’s recommended medium quality home units cost between EUR 3,000.00 and 5,000.00 (i.e. USD4,500.00~7,500.00).
Decent dual motors machines of course will not cause bad health under proper use. In fact, many professional grade vertical vibration machines are constructed with dual motors, some of them are accredited by European Medical Device Directive (MDD). For reason of dual motor construction…. Firstly, it is very difficult to control the vibration in vertical displacment with single motor as you can imagine motor rotates. Secondly, professional plates usually have larger platforms, it is probably difficult to have vibration evenly distributed over the large platform with single motor.
TC
- any ideas
February 26th, 2008Thanks very much. Really helpful. I have just looked at the hypergravity. I think it might be a good idea to go for some training somewhere and then hopefully get one of those if I feel the treatment is suiting. If I get something not up to the job or dont use it properly then I havent given this option much chance at all. Thank you for all your advice here. In terms of going to a facility I can only find one locally that uses ‘vibra-gym’ would that be beneficial in the meantime? Also have you found any particular supplements that complement the vibration therapy from a bone density point of view?
August 13th, 2007
Seb….
Use a Lineal unit on 2 mm approx 43 hz. Full body standard program as seen on…
http://www.vibra-train.com/exercises-bullet.html
and make sure you copy instruction word for word…
http://www.vibra-train.com/exercises-explained.html
Do it in this order 1, 2 , 3 , 4, 6 and then number 3 again last. No more no less.