Here is a summary of the key points to be aware of when using Whole Body Vibration.
- Use the machine for therapy or working out 3 times a week, with a 48 hour rest period between sessions.
- As a general rule – the safe time limit for the WBV sessions is about 10-15 minutes per 48 hours. If the aim of the WBV session is resistance training then the time lag can be 72 hours between sessions.
- Correct bodily positioning on the equipment is very important as an improper position would multiply the stress-strain factor many times over per second (up to 50 times per second at 50 hz) and very likely result in trauma to bodily tissues. (Specialized advice and guidance would be needed here. Refer also to a sample WBV safety training program).
- WBV workouts exercise the neuromuscular system; the WBV effect on muscle issue is similar or identical as resistance training as far as inducing the catabolic and anabolic responses in the body, hence the absolute need to give the body at least a 48 hour rest period between sessions. Further, there may be long-term negative effects of continued (without rest day) WBV resulting in muscle tissue breakdown and negative influence on the thyroid gland.
- Generally safe amplitude for warm-up, therapy and basic training protocol: 2-3 mm for warmup and therapy, increasing to 5 mm as tolerance increases.
- Choice of machine type (pivotal or lineal) would depend on goals: therapy, training or both. Using lower frequencies, a pivotal machine would be preferred, using higher frequencies a lineal machine would be preferred. Larger platform and heavier machines are needed for specialized therapy and training. A combination of pivotal and lineal machines would efficiently serve advancing therapy and training goals.
- 10 minutes or less a day for 5-6 sessions per week may be safe for weight-loss and muscle toning for some weeks. With any type of machine 5-6 sessions per week of between 20-45 minutes per day may give an initial toning and fat loss effect to the body (5-6 weeks), but over a longer period (2-5 months+) have been known to create health disorders ranging from hyperthyroidism and other hormonal disorders to potential internal
organ failure. - Resistance training can be done immediately or very soon after the WBV warm-up or holding the static poses on the machines. Cardiovascular exercises can be done during the days intervening between WBV sessions, or the same day.
- Safety guidelines for resonance frequency:
- Pivotal units (0-30 hz)
- Lineal units (38-50 hz) – preferred frequency 43 hz
- There are some opinions that vibrations below 20 hz are not healthful for the spine and internal organs in lineal machines.
Thanks to D. Greene for collating the bulk of this, and also Lloyd Shaw for providing feedback.
{ 94 comments… read them below or add one }
Excellent article .
If someone is training for 15 min every 48 hours can cause himself some body malfunctions or its absolutely safe ?
15mins every 48hrs is safe.
Have any studies been done or are any references available of people using Whole Body Vibration Training at recommended/safe limits, say 10-15 mins 2-3 x weekly, for several years? I mean apart from you, Lloyd.
What are the gains in training, gains in therapy, and are there any negatives in health or fitness that might possibly occur? How would a user guard against any possible detrimental or harmful effects of continued use.
Please be specific in terms of linear and pivotal and also regarding home use (
surely a user would get bored after a few months or the machine would not perform well unless it was top standard to begin with) and commercial and gym based machines.
I can imagine law suits ensuing in North America if a user believed a medical condition they had related in any way to long term use of WBV. Are we this far down the track or is WBV availabilty to the general public too young for this?
Note: It is very interesting to me to see you all debate the pros and cons of particular brands of machine and if they perform as stated. Thank you Lloyd, TC, Mike Hair for caring about the SAFETY of users. Obviously for me, a User, that is my first concern, then followed by the efficacy of a particular model but I get the idea that these features are often linked.
Vibration Therapy/Training is not new and has been used on a continued basis in Europe , with machines been widely available to the public for several years now ( since 1999) .
No problems recorded.
If anything we are now safer than before with my company putting pressure on others to follow ISO 2631 . Using this as a guideline to limit machine function and exposure.
( ISO 2631 defines methods for the measurement of periodic, random and transient whole-body vibration. )
These are global safety standards.
Thanks Lloyd. Thinking ahead to semi-specific uses of vibration therapy/training. Your website states that VT “helps your body to maintain its bone density and even help weaker bones get stronger.
Could this help people with a disorganised bone remodelling process, as seen in Paget’s Disease? As this affects bones of the skull, Spine, long bones of arms and legs, is is a fair assumption to think that Vibration therapy and/or Vibration Training “might” help encourage stronger (less spongey) bone re-growth? (This disease affects my Mother and other family members).
It should in “Theory” help with most bone disorders.
Remember though that my articals try to deal with the Theory VS Reality of Vibration Training .
I am trying to be safe , but I believe trust in my theorys will still be an issue for some time.
Hi Lloyd
I agree with the recommendations set forth by D. Greene and you. I’d like to expand on it with another recommendation, with my experience on it and the potential to use it over time.
We also recommend a maximum of 15 minutes of vibration time. However, to go one step further, I’ve narrowed it down to about 2 minutes of vibration time per BODY PART. The advantage is two fold: it allows for safe vibration use, and it is also effective in getting the quick work out that everyone desires.
we have found that if someone does 4 sets at 30 seconds each, and are exercising at a high frequency and amplitude, they can still increase the time to 45 seconds, or 60 seconds and do less sets, still adding up to a 2 minute per body part program. Its amazing to see the amount of fatigue set in when one goes from 30 seconds to 60 seconds. Just another thing to throw out there.
On another note, Lloyd is right about proper positioning. If you dont feel the vibration effects in the areas you want, its not that its not working, its just that the position is wrong. One has to play around with positioning to get the right effects. I hope this helps
Important Notice…….
I will no longer be mentioning specific brands if asked about ” Good or Bad machines .
Reason…..
I now have a folder of 118 different models. With a new one being released each week. Also some companies are deliberatly changing names every couple of months to counter the effects of “negative branding”.
Also some brands are making deals with sub-standard manufacturors and marketers. So even a good unit could become bad overnight.
I believe it is in the publics best interests to now only concentrate on questions and comments regarding
(a) Quality ( what to look for )
(b) Safety
(c) Ethics
(d) New Developments
(e) Theory
Site Administrator—thanks for putting this up–I had an unanswered question when I was collating this information, perhaps Lloyd and others could provide insight–what are the dangers of lineal machine WBV below 30 Hz, and pivotal machines above 30 Hz?
Regards,
Darius
Okay! Since people have been saying that they are noticing muscle toning and bulking without weight loss, are there specific positions and settings that a beginner should use if he/she wishes to experience weight loss first … before … getting more muscle? Is this possible? Or, is the science that one doesn’t lose weight without first experiencing the muscle toning and bulking which will then coninue to burn fat and THEN cause weight loss at a later period of time spent?
Thanks … Lloyd … anyone else?
Please read….
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/01/vibration-training-for-weight-loss/comment-page-2/#comments
Important to note:
” Weight Loss ” is a BMI index that is not used any more by true health proffesionals.
All articals I have written try to point in the direction of ” Body Composition ” change.
If you choose to use both systems at the same time. Your mental health will suffer.
If there is an increased muscle mass in the body, the Basal Metabolic Rate (fuel burning rate)of the body is increased as muscles require more fuel than fat. When the body is in an aerobic mode of activity, it uses more fat as fuel rather than carbohydrates. Increased muscles call for an overall increased fuel consumption, therefore more bodily fat stores are used for the same aerobic activity where there is an increased weight of muscle in the body.
I, as well as many others, have noted that with WBV weight loss is not there initially but muscle toning & bulking increase, and clothes become looser (inch-loss) due to loss of fat stores. Looser clothes and the same or reduced body weight alongwith muscle toning and bulking and increased fitness levels indicates that both aerobic and anaerobic benefits are obtained with WBV.
However, this may hold true mainly for those who are not extremely fit or extremely athletic–for those who are very athletic and fit, their body fat percentage may be sufficiently low already. I think this is why Lloyd has found the need for different types of equipment depending on the lower or advanced fitness level of the individual.
As one’s fitness levels increase, the body needs to be challenged to develop or maintain the lean-fat balance at the given level of activity and nutritional intake. Basically the same mechanism as of resistance training will apply to the metabolism with possibly some as yet unknown factors specific to the mechanism of WBV on the body.
Darius
Hello Kris,
Laziness and fancy dreams are always doors to invite smart but greedy marketers to sell something.
I understand your meaning of weight loss is acutally fat loss.
It is the natural law and most healthy formula to lose fat by doing cardio exercises. When a person do exercise seriously, it is very natural to gain muscle mass and in term of weight, you may even gain before you begin to lose some.
Of course there are many fat burning programs in the market which claim high effectiveness and painless. They could be able to help you to achieve the fat loss goal. However, if you choose a way against natural law, then you should prepare for consequence of disaster. Everyone knows sun rises from East. Theoritically, the sun can change to rise from West. When it happens, it is time for us to see our own gods!!
My friends, comparing to conventional physical exercise, vibration training is already a big short cut!
TC
Thanks for the all the info.
Do you have any suggestions / recommendations for when to take (FIR) saunas between WBV sessions?
Cheers,
Peter.
I’m interested in finding more information regarding the time saving effects of WBV training. PowerPlate claims 85%: I guess they mean that instead to obtain the same workout benefits of say exercising for 100 minutes with traditional workout, one saves 85 minutes and needs to exercise only for 15 minutes with WBV.
We performed a metabolic test to corroborate what is said in many studies, by measuring the oxygen uptake on the platform we produce. Our vibrating platform is very similar from a vibratory point of view to PowerPlates’s own vibration parameters: amplitude (2-4 mm), frequency (15-70 Hz) and acceleration (2-12 g). We found a 50% increase in the calories burned, as compared to an isometric exercise. I admit this was a very quick test done on the fly at a trade show, but still indicative. Does anybody have further numbers on this?
Giovanni…
would you be speaking of Bosco’s Nemes units ?
Why would you compare them to a Power-Plate.
Nemes are far superior and have not comprimised on quality over the years. Putting yourself in the mix with Power-Plate does you no favours.
I would personally question a test of Calorie burning based on Oxygen uptake during an Anaerobic activity like Vibration Training.
During Anerobic exercise these processes require another electron acceptor to replace oxygen correct ?
Combine that with using the glycolytic pathways and the presence of prokaryotes you have energy without Oxygen.
C6 H12 O6 —> 2C3 H6 O3 + 2 ATP
( Energy released is about 120kJ per mole Glucose )
And this still only accounts for the 30% recruitment of muscle cells during a voluntary reflex.
How about the other 70% during Involuntary ?
Giovanni ….
Sorry I took a look at your site. And you do sell a plastic machine. VERY similar to the Power-Plate.
In that case I oppose to you using Bosco’s research as he never used such materials in his tests.
Your steel units should/could carry the test results , but not the plastic version.
Giovanni – I notice your systems are 0-60hz pivitol and 15-70hz vertical. These go way outside Lloyds recommended frequencies. Are there any reasons/benefits to this?
A note to all….
All Fq inverter + motor systems can go 0-60-Hz as a standard. It is not an added feature. Mine also have this ability , but this function is not accessible to the public or trainer.
This is for safety reasons.
Limiting the function and program gives everybody a safety buffer.
Other than that. The units Giovanni is promoting look quite good.
I hope they spend as much time on their ethics as they did on the aestetics.
I’m intrigued by all this and skimmed/read all the prior posts due to thinking this might help my 11 year old son born with Down Syndrome and Spina Bifida. He walks but that is becoming difficult due to a weak skinnier right leg that also includes a surgically corrected clubfoot and the low tone of Downs doesn’t help. What kind of machine would I want or is it possible this might be contraindicated for him? I would love to see better muscle tone all over and more muscle strength and stronger bones, balance, etc. I know you said you didn’t want to mention specific machines any more but could you give me any info or websites or what I need for a therapy machine? Thanks.
Yes it should help him with his comtroled movements greatly. We have seen results in other young people with such problems.
Where are you situated ?
Dear Priscilla,
Sorry to hear about the problems of your son.
I personally would not recommend vibration training for healthy young children. Firstly, young children should be have good enough physical activities. Secondly, intensive vibration stimulation might cause premature of bone growth plates; which might affect height development.
However, for children with physical problems, e.g. Cerebral Palsy, nerve dysfunction or Down Syndrome which lead to postural problem or muscle weakness, vibration training could be considered as compromising treatment.
For your son’s condition, it sounds complicated to me. I cannot tell if your son is suitable for vibration training especially due to Spinal Bifida. In fact, allow me to say, none of the vibration training specialists here can give you a proper advice based on your brief description.
I guess your son is under care of a team of medical professionals. You should speak with them regarding the possibility of applying vibration training. If this medical team is not aware of vibration training, come back here, we shall provide you the links where they can access information to learn this new training technique and then to evaluate if it is suitable for your son.
Good Luck and Happy Easter!
TC
Hi Lloyd,
It is great to see someone so committed to cleaning up this company. I think it is great to see a human being looking out for not only themself but the health of others.
How long have you been using the vibration training and what are you most surprising benefits from it?
What would you recomend work out wise for some one who has Spondylolses? As I am keen to work out an help relieve some of my pain?
For Spondyloses which is normally a contrain dication on most units , you would want to use a specific machine with a handle bar set designed to bear some of your body weight through your arms. With a setting no higher than 3mm at approx 43Hz.
We call this position ” Ski the Slopes “.
Note:
(1) Your spine can never be in direct contact with the plate.
(2) Sitting on the plate or hamstring massage is out.
Talk to your instructor first. If they don’t seem to understand your particular issues. Walk away. It is not worth the risk.
Thanks lloyd I will keep that in mind. After a while will i be able to do more of a basic workout or should i just stick to Sikiing the slopes?
Lloyd,
we manufacture four models in three basic shapes. The one (round one) that most probably you think is plastic, is actually 20 lbs heavier than the other one (280 lbs vs 260 lbs). We measured the “g” acceleration on both platforms and there is no difference between the two. The one giving you the impression of a plastic unit, is actually made out of steel, except for the rounded contours of the plate surface.
Regarding the oxygen uptake test, we compensated for the initial anaerobic phase, by running the test long enough to get into the aerobic phase. We then looked at the calorie-vs-time curve and inferred the asymptotic limit. This should be pretty close to the theoretical aerobic Calorie-burn rate.
Sarah,
in the built-in programs offered with our machine we mainly use frequencies from 25-30 Hz. However, we decided to offer full programmability from 15-70 Hz, so that if a research entity wants to experiment with different frequency ranges, the machine will facilitate the task of the researchers. Actually our medical unit goes from 5-70 Hz. our vertical vibration platforms. There is medical research showing benefits under medical supervision in diseases like Parkinson and MS at around 8 Hz.
Vibration is still in its infancy as a training technique and therapy. Sport-medicine studies have shown it to be most effective at 30 Hz and relatively high g. Medical studies on bone mineral mass have shown that to obtain good results relatively low g are sufficient. Researchers know quite a few things on WBV applications, but it is still the tip of the iceberg. Thats why we have programmed exercise protocols in our machines around the current wisdom, but we built-in the capability to go beyond it.
Sorry for my late answer, but I do not check this blog often enough. To the administrator: would it be possible to update the date of each thread with the date of the latest contribution? That way one would find immediately threads with the most recent contributions.
Giovanni…
I would be more than happy to talk to you and help in your quest to get good models out into the public . If the quality is up there then you will do well. Any support I can give you, I will.
Hallo Lloyd
I am doing a WBV exrcise programme every 48 hours .
Please tell me when is the best to input resistance training to my programme ?
Same day , before your Vibration Training session.
Thanks a lot
I have a few questions for the use of a lineal machine.
1. Is it better to wear shoes?
2.Even though I only train every 48 hours, can I “warm up” for a few minutes before my exercise program on the days between?
3.Are there any specific exercise charts with positions for therapy for the elderly?
Thanks to anyone who can help me.
(1) Yes it is better to wear shoes , so you weight can be spread out more evenly.
(2) The odd warm up pose and stretch should be fine on days off. (I do stretchs and 1 squat before I go into the mortuary.)
(3) The next question is alot trickier , depending on the unit used. But the first 6 poses on the safety program….
http://www.vibra-train.com/exercises-bullet.html
…… has been used for over 3 years now with no incidents.
Note: The instructions at the bottom should be followed exactly. An elderly person is at risk of injury getting in and out of the poses if not carefull.
Thanks so much for your prompt answer. I am using a Wave
They are automatically calibrated now and are supposed to have a capacity of 1500 pounds.
I’m not sure if if I could get my Dad to listen carefully enough to do those poses. I really do not want to injure him. He has had a hip replacement and Mom has osteo arthritis.
The risks should never outweight the benifits. He must understand how important the poses are are or dont let him on.
Bad habits around this machinery start on the first day.
Make sure Wave know your Dad has a hip replacement.
Thanks Lloyd. I’m thinking, knowing my Dad, He’s a bit of a “if a little is good, a lot is better” kind of guy. Maybe I should not let him near it and yes, I will ask my WAVE Rep about the hip replacement. Can older people just sit on a chair in front of it with their feet on the platform or is that even a problem if you are not at the exact right height and such? It would be sad to not be able to help them when they live so close to such awesome technology!
Yes , sitting in front will be safe and cause some positive effects.
He really wants to be using some kind of side handle bar arrangement to help him hold the correct poses with putting to much pressure on the hip.
Make sure he understands that its the “angles” that are super important. Not the time spent on it.
I meant…
” without putting to much pressure on the hip”
Thanks Lloyd. I know from reading everything here that I must be very careful with this machine and who I let on it. I don’t want it to be just a novelty or a toy. I have seen some pretty crazy positions at health shows on the small units. They let anyone just hop on and have a go at it.
My mother was told by her PowerPlate instructor to contract her leg muscles while doing the squat on the platform. Lloyd, you say “relax”. Any comment on the effects of both approaches?
The major response used in Vibration Training is “re-balancing” , which is best done when relaxed.
Just try balancing when you contract all your body muscles, its actually impossable. We are asking you to rebalance 40 times a sec , just for you muscles to keep up with that speed they need to be relaxed. Automaytic tension is placed in the upward phase of the vibration due to excess gravity loading. You dont need to try.
Power Plate are simply uneducated in involuntary reflexes , and get people to move and contract on their units , so the customer can feel like they are doing something . When they had steel units , the program was static.
Note: By contracting or moving you are in fact over riding most of the involuntary reflexes you have and limiting the energy output.
Thanks a lot, Lloyd! That clarifies it!
Hi Lloyd, and all.
About the Lineal units.
Considering X, Y, Z axis: I believe that vibration on each axis have different behavior on human body.
Is the vibration in the Z axis provides better training, is that statement correct? If so then which frequency in Hz is more appropriate? And amplitude (mm)
And for instance an Vibration platform which vibrates on X and Y axis, which one is more efficient/better? It could be both in the same platform? It MUST to have same frequency on both axis or not really?
Which frequency is the best one for X and Y axis? (Hz) and amplitude (mm)
May I can represent more or less the axis…
X – from left to right of our body
Y – from backw to front of our body
Z – from the ground up to the sky…
(y) (z)
A
| /
| /
|/
(x)
/|
/ |
V
Cheers
Thiago
(1) Yes all energy transfered to the Z axis is best.
(2) 27Hz for the longest stretch reflex in the muscle. But 43Hz for overall comfort , safety and results for the consumer.
(3) No amplitude has been deemed better than another. For comfort most range between 1mm-5mm .
(4) No platform moving in the X and Y axis would be called efficient, the rules is the less movement in those directions the better , as rapid sideways movements on joints is called shearing.
Note: Low energy platforms may not have enough force to shear the joints but we do prefer manufacturors to play it safe.
To clarify about the shearing ….
I believe some companies misdirect the consumer by saying 3 axis training is good for the muscles , it is true that they can handle and respond to multiple forces acting on them as they are very flexable , but joints are not.
They never mention that.
Note: A certain amount of front to back vibration may be tolerated on say the legs , but side to side is not smart.
Your extra comment was my doubt and my concern.
Thanks.
Question…
A buddy of mine had ACL recon done (hamstring graft).
He has been using WBV and has had some good success.
My question is due to the fact that he wants to work the injured leg with WBV more than the unaffected leg.
Any thoughts on how this would be accomplished on the plate? I think the lunge, but I was wondering if he could just hold his other leg off the plate in a standard squat position.
Thanks all…..(man-I had no idea how huge an ACL tear actually is for someone active-it’s massive)
You are correct , but he should put a step pad under the leg not being worked. Leaving it hanging places undue sideways stress on the leg being worked.
Anyone have any views on whether protein drinks or carbs are more effective pre/ post workout? Both are recommended and I guess do different things. I presume protein will help the muscle to grow and repair whilst carbs will allow you to work for a bit longer during the workout? Anyone noticed a difference using these? I’m not talling body-building here – just accelerating the progres a bit more for your average user.
I drink a gainer both before and after workout and it does wonders. I should add that I would have a pretty low protein intake without the drinks.
Thanks Tim – a gainer is a protein drink? We have one called Pro-max here that I like.
A gainer contains both protein and carbs. Mine has 24% protein and 68% carbs. One can also mix whey protein powder, maltodextrine, dextrose and water. I add a greens powder (like Pure Synergy which can be bought in the UK) or spirulina, rose hip powder, blueberry powder and nettle powder.
The Promax protein shakes have more protein and less carbs. Perhaps this suits you better than a gainer which is good for bulking up. Not sure why the Promax has so much fat though. Also, personally I am not into artificial sweeteners.
I´ll add a link for more information on how it works in my next comment (should it take time to get it posted).
http://ksteveh.tripod.com/Window.html
Thanks Tim – just read your article – complicated stuff! Didn’t realise it was so important. What brands do you recommend – preferably ones that are available in the UK? Also if I make the promax shake with skimmed milk – is that a high enough GI carb – am guessing not as won’t be dextrose or glucose. So – just to clarify… if I have 24g protein in my shake I need to drink 24g of glucose alongside? i don’t want to body build – just optimise the workout, toning and weightloss.
I use Star Nutrition, but I don´t know if it´s available in the UK. It is relatively inexpensive and contains no artificial sweeteners. Check some good webshop. I also buy a 50/50 mix of dextrose and maltodextrine and use the different powders mentioned earlier for vitamin and mineral supplementation.
Skimmed milk would add both protein and carbs. I didn´t try it, so can´t say. Try and see what works for you.
Yes, according to the article you would mix 24 grams of protein with 24 grams of dextrose and maltodextrine (50/50) on a cutting phase.
Another way would be to mix a gainer with some “pure” whey protein to get the 50/50 protein/carb ratio.
I am not a nutritionist, so please take all of this with a grain of salt. Best of luck!
Thanks Tim – that’s been really helpful.
Can Vibration Training be used for detached retinas that have been ‘glued back in’? That’s the customers description! I know detached retinas are dangerous and am guessing this also wouldn’t be a asmart move but said I would ask. if anyone has experience to share that would be great.
No go zone. Far too risky.
Thanks – that’s what I thought.
Hi Lloyd, Mike
We have just progressed to training on the HG (Olympic model) at 40hz high amplitude (Bullet Program)
The vibrations are quite strong (harsh?)and if you are not in a precise position in the squats it is quite painful on the knees. Would it then be correct to assume that we are properly in sync with the Bullet exercises?
At low amplitude if you get out of position it is more difficult to notice especially if you are training alone at the time.
Would it be an idea for those just starting out to try and establish the correct positions at high amplitude before going down to low amp?
The HyperGravity units are not bio-mechanical or have anti-slip carpet, so can be kinda harsh on its higher settings and your feet can move around a bit.
Put down a thin foam mat ( approx 10mm ) to help with that issue and it will also stop you sliding.
No to your suggestion , more damage than good would be done.
Thanks Lloyd
Will try the mat although our feet do not seem to move around, however there is an illusion of the feet moving especially the back foot in the lunge.
Have found the most comfortable position to be with the knees only fractionally backward of the toes.
When will the IVTRB site be up?
Hi I have been using a vibration plate for 6 months now and initially started on a Vibrogym with instruction and supervision from a qualified trainer, in Mallorca Spain. I commute between Spain and UK and managed to find a vibrogym in UK near my home which I use in a gym but now unsupervised. I had great results from the vibrogym with regard to toning and strenth although I am overweight ( I am 59). I lost inches on my waist and legs and 6lbs in weight over a period of 2 months. I have also used a Power Plate professional but did not find it so beneficial. I am thinking of purchasing my own and like the vibrogym – I would buy the professional model. However a few times now I have noticed that one or two days after training I feel really sick all the time – could this be something to do with the Vibration training – I dont feel sick when I do it but just really nauseous for 2 or 3 days afterwards – I only experience it with the Vibrogym which makes me feel as if I have had a good work out – the Powerplate seemed more “gentle” and was supervised by a physio who wouldnt allow me to do crunches on the plate. Generally I feel so much better and brighter after using the Vibrogym as it keeps my upper back flexible and I feel much stronger. I just worry that I might be harming myself or am doing something wrong. I try to do it 3 times a week but lately it has only been once a week – I dont want to purchase an expensive machine if it is going to do more harm than good – hope this makes sense (PS The Vibrogym people in the UK were very helpful in finding me a gym in the UK that had a machine and also in answering questions) – I use it with a mat and also the box.
I would say its more likely to be over exposure than anything else. That would explain the delayed reaction as motion sickness would be immediate. Some people are more sensitive than others.
Write down the program you do , dont miss anything.
Hello Elaine,
In order to let us provide futher help and advice, please list out what poses do you do, what parameters are used for each pose (frequency / amplitude / duration).
Awaiting your information.
TC
Thought I would comment on this….
“the Powerplate seemed more gentle and was supervised by a physio who wouldnt allow me to do crunches on the plate”
If a Physio would not let you do crunches on a gentle plate does doing it on a powerfull plate sound safer ?
I bought a HG Fit n Flex and have trained on it for about a week.
I used to do a lot of climbing and mountaineering so I am fairly strong. However, being 39 and a weekend warrior, my knee wasn’t holding up. I think I have runner’s knee. Combined with a more than full time job, vibration training seemed like just the right thing for me.
I’ve read through most of this site and I’m using the Vibra-train program. The machine allows 30, 35, 40, 45 Hz selections. I’m using 40 Hz at 3mm Amplitude and have no problems holding the positions for the specified times. Half way through the program I have to breath really deeply. It’s a great workout without stressing my joints and muscles. I do have a few questions.
1. What’s the difference between the first squat and the superman squat? The only difference I can tell is the arm position. But that doesn’t change anything else.
2. My platform is not wide enough for the wide stance squat. What is the purpose of the wide stance squat?
3. Is there any specific exercise to help my knee? It started hurting when I went running hard after a long hiatus, without letting the joints get in shape. It hurts when I land on it and when I go downstairs. It hurts less when I conscientiously contract the muscles around the knee.
4. Having had 5 kids, and being on the heavy side, I have loose skin over the abdomenal area and protruding belly. Running used to help with that. During the pelvic stability exercise, I feel the uppper abs and the muscles around the rib cage being activated, but that doesn’t address the mid and lower abdomen. The only exercise that makes me feel like I’ve run 5 miles, i.e. abdominal area feels tightened and appetite is reduced, is if I stand with my knees straight and look down slightly to reduce vibration in the head area. I’ve read here that straight knee is ok for osteoporosis treatment. But is that safe at 40Hz 3 mm amplitude?
5. I also like to do the push up with arms extended and elbows locked. This seems to activate the shoulders and triceps more. Any risk here?
6. I have to do the lunges with only one leg on the platform and the other leg on a box of the same height. I do both ways, front leg on and then back leg on. I try to make sure knee is not past the ankle and upper leg is horizontal. I’ve read here that that this technique is fine. Lunges are easy for me, so I don’t feel much benefit. I’ve read here that this exercise is for performance training only. What muscles are being activated? What can I do to exercise the glutes more?
Thanks for having this forum. It’s awesome!
Hi Carol
Lloyd is the best person to answer your questions and reply specific to your machine. You could also contact Josh at Hypergravity.
With knee injury you should not be doing lunges. Even if you find them easy the risks outweigh the benefits. You can repeat basic or superman squats a few extra times when you do your program or do a program consisting only of basic squat x 10 x 60sec. remember this replaces your regular program so do not do it as well. You can do this every 2-3 days for a few weeks if your knees are troublesome then return to regular program. Ensure correct position, knees just behind toes not over and knees apart not drifting together over time. Feet flat with even pressure on heels and toes and perfectly straight. It’s all about correct position – believe me I have a knee injury!
Standing upright feet slat on a good quality machine is not safe. You are supposed to be targeting the girth of the muscles and your bones not sending vibration shooting fast up your spine. Same with push up with straight arms. You are not benefitting as position is wrong and potentially dangerous. You need to trust the machine to do the job as you’ve bought a good quality unit. The abs/plank position – are you doing it correctly as on the poster (vibra-train)? Up on your toes heels pointing backward? Please relax your upper abdominals, don’t deliberately contract any of the stomach area. You will see results. Again the machine will work for you, you need to be in perfect position, relax but stay in perfect position, correcting as necessary.
You can do widestance squat on your platform I think (I’ve only seen that platform once). Legs wide with toes at 45degree angle and semi squat, not too low. You might feel this as a slight stretch and vibration up inner leg and inner thigh, also in lowerback and glutes (core,posture,legs)
Basic squat and final superman squat are the same but very different in the program. The first warms you up and activates everything and strengthens. It’s a great overall position and I would never start my program any other way. Note: other companies have different starting position like plank. This doesn’t work overall with gravity etc as the basic squat does!
The final squats again work your whole body and you can do 2 minutes nonstop if you can and yr machine timer can do this. Balance is harder without holding handlebars but you can use them if needed for support. You must pay attention to your body remaining in perfect position and correct as necessary every 15seconds. Your body will try to cheat and make it easier usually by coming up into a shallow squat or by lifting your heels off the platform – correct immediately for the most benefit from your program.
Carol….
(1) When doing the standard squat you de-activate your abs and lower back for balance. This is the safest pose to start the program with.
(2) Takes pressure out of the sciatic nerve and places pressure in the adductor muscles.
(3) The safety program is all your knee needs. Do not underestimate it.
(4 ,5 & 6 ) What you suggest goes against every recommendation in the articles on this site regarding safe poses I have ever written. I dont know what to say .
I think I am off to shoot myself.
All right, Lloyd, if you’re still alive… No, seriously, I find some of your reasoning hard to follow. You don’t have an article, however complicated, stating the principles behind your program and full discussion of the pros and cons. I had to spend many hours wading through pages of comments to get a glimpse of what you mean. Many of your answers are short, being scattered all over the place. It’s very difficult to go back and review the main points, a critical step for learning a new exercise program.
Di, thanks for the explanations and suggestions. Just what I need for feedback concerning the Safety Program.
Lloyd, I take it then that locking the elbows or knees FEEL like a workout because the joints are taking the vibration directly. But this should be no worse than running 5 miles counting by cycles. I can’t see the forces being that bad at 3mm under the same body weight. I suppose when standing straight up, the forces are being transfered directly to the spine instead of being absorbed by the muscles supporting the bent knees in the case of running. Is there an article that calculates and compares the forces as well as empirical data?
Carol…..
“You dont have an article”
You are correct , I have about 20 of them. All under “topics” at the top of this page breaking down the different points from how to buy a good machine , how it actually works and safety tips .
The forum below the articles allow me to field questions and discuss/clarify the finer points , great for those really interested in that particular topic.
I think it is the best way to cover things as opposed to say a book that just dictates . I will continue to release new material all the time covering different angles of my industry.
Most of your questions have been covered but I am more than happy to help with those that are not.
Eg…..
“I cant see the forces being that bad at 3mm under the same body weight”
This subject is covered in a few articles.
Eg …..
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2008/07/does-vibration-training-burn-calories
“so lets go through the figures you would get from a standard machine running at the recommended 43hz and 3 mm setting for beginners.
With a distance traveled in each vibration up and down actually being 6 mm, 43 times a second, that leads to a distance traveled of 2.58 meters per second. Now that may not seem that far, but most machines will be making you about 6 times your own weight ”
Or this one…….
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2008/06/vibration-training-and-bone-density
“By creating a hyper-gravity situation, such as a vibration training platform coming quickly up underneath you, your body just for a split second becomes very heavy (on most standard units 6 times your own weight).”
Carol, I gave you explanations because I was as inquisitive, wanting to know “why” on every topic. I’ve overstepped in how much info I’ve given as I re-read that you have only just begun training,so it’s basic program all the way. I started vibration training with two long term injuries and after 3 weeks had lots of improvement. If I re-injure myself (I’m accident prone) the basic program fixes me up again. Only for a cartilage tear in my knee have I stopped the regular program.
It’s great to ask questions and take responsibility for your health/fitness so keep reading the articles and comments. I encourage you to trust Lloyd even when you don’t understand or read different advice elsewhere. (I have asked enough questions for 1000 people and investigated his answers).
I shudder at the way some manufacturers simply make machines, release them and see what happens. Human vibration trials – I will not be part of them – so choose machine and program very wisely and follow instructions.
Read the articles. I’ll stick with the basic program. But what’s wrong with doing the lunge with one leg off?
How does the basic lunge deactivate the abs and lower back? Just want to make sure I get it right.
My platform is only 22″ wide. Should I still try to do the wide squat?
Lloyd, you had written another article recently for the trainers on certain metrics on positioning to check for. There wasn’t much discussion there. I would like to see the “cheat sheet” for all the exercises.
The article on involuntary contractions using EMG was less than impressive. Is that because of the machines they are using? Power plate, was it?
(1) Lunge … done incorrectly it can create “shearing”. You cant afford to risk this with a past knee injury.
(2) How does the basic lunge deactivate the abs and lower back? Who told you this ?
(3) You can do a wide squat with one foot on , the other off. Then turn around.
Read all my material huh…?
Then my suggestion is read it all over again.
Eg….
All the “cheats” to look for are listed on my program under each pose , word for word.
http://www.vibra-train.com/exercises-explained.html
I am starting to feel as though you are having me on.
2. Who told you this ? — You told me that, six notes above dated Jan 2.
I’ve read that before. But you’re right, I need to read it again.
What I was referring to is the bio-mechanical markers that you mentioned in the article whole-body-vibration-advice-for-trainers. These are mentioned in the explanations but sans the exact measurements given in your article, e.g. 18cm between feet.
In particular, when I do the plank,
1. how much narrower should the elbow be compared to shoulders?
2. how far forward should the elbows be compared to the shoulders?
3. my platform is a different height than the bullet. What height should my knees or toes be?
4. Should the bone tip of the elbow be supporting the weight (like the female picture) or the flat area just above the elbow joint ( like the male)?
What I said……
(1) When doing the standard squat you de-activate your abs and lower back for balance.
Eg.. Because you are holding onto something during the basic , you do not need to engage your core to rebalance, let go and turn around and you have to.
You asked about the “lunge” not the “squat”…
“How does the basic lunge deactivate the abs and lower back?”
As for your other questions , there are no precise measurements , as long as it basically matches the photo AND instructions the pose will do its job and you wont get injured. You should feel comfortable and relaxed in the pose to begin with , it should only start getting hard around the 30sec mark.
Elbow angle in the plank…. either is ok as long as its comfortable. Both will create the desired pumping/pivot action on the core. You just cant ever go onto the front of your elbow.
Note: The more advanced and stretched out you get , the angle will naturally change.
Important point…..
You must remember that the safety program on my website was designed for my studio system , where you have a trainer with you at all times watching and correcting. So its not as comprehensive as it would have been if I was selling machines to the public.
The only reason I do this other work is because there are too many machines being sold by companies that are clearly out of their depth and faking it. As a result I believe my industry and the consumer will suffer if it is not sorted out.
At the moment I am still writing small articles about the “very basics” I incorporated into my company , machines and programs years ago, as thats what’s most needed . As time goes by I will be releasing far more detailed info.
Hi – I am interested in WBV for health reasons. Can anyone enlighten me about a machine I had a look at today? It is the Nordic Track V7 at a cost of AU$1200.00. This is all very new to me and I am quite confused about linear V pivotal. I have not exercised for quite some time, and feel my joints are stiffening as I age. I am on the verge of 60, have arthritis in my knees and ankles so need to be cautious. I live in Australia.
Any help or feedback would very much appreciated. Liz
Pivotal will do you fine. My advice would be to contact HyperVibe as they have a good reputation.
Hi Lloyd
I think your last comment was directed at me..is that correct?
I have found a clinic here that is obviously an authorised dealer for HyperVibe, so I have booked a few 10 minute sessions to try this machine out.
It is obvious after reading the numerous comments on this site that you guys know what you are talking about, whereas I, on the other hand have no idea and find it all quite confusing. I really want to buy something that will suit my needs so here’s hoping!
You didn’t make any comments on the Nordic Track V7 I was asking about….any reason why?
Thanks again for your feedback and suggestion. Liz
Hi Liz
You haven’t said where in Australia you are. I have talked with Murray, the owner of HyperVibe and I’ve met Debbie who runs Beach Body Vibe at Bondi Junction. She put me through a session on the machines. They have a pivotal (slightly see-saw) movement which can be set to be very gentle (Therapy which you would use at first), right through to Hard Workout force which you might be able to manage after some time.
I can recommend HyperVibe (I do not sell them or receive any gain). Nordic Track is a light training, lineal (upright Vibration) machine. With your health conditions Lloyd obviously thought Pivotal Vibration was best but If you can, try out the Nordic. You will know what’s right for you if you test them out. There is s review on my site (click on my name) if you go back a few pages to find it. I was using the HypreVibe for work-out but it can also be very gentle.
The Nordic Track V7 is a Low Amplitude, Low Energy Lineal Vibration Therapy Platform.
A good Therapy platform and will be good to help with your joint problems, but the HyperVibe has the advantage of helping with all that and lower back problems as well.
And if some day to get over those issues you can start to do some Vibration Training.
Hi again Lloyd and Di
Thank you both for your comments.
Di, I am in Adelaide and will be having my first session using the HyperVibe on Monday, so hopefully I will be able to comment about the machine after trying it out.
I had a look today at another machine called Infiniti Pulse..it has two motors and can be switched from see-saw motion to linear (I think), so just something else to think about. I did like the feel of it just as I did with the Nordic Track. Cost appox $1700 (AU$), so a bit more expensive than the Nordic which I could buy on special for $1200. I believe the HyperVibe is around $1995.
I didn’t realise there were so many of these machines around and it’s possible that I will end up confusing myself more if I keep looking! So decisions to be made…and, no more looking!
Thank you both once again
Liz
Hi Liz,
Be prepared for quite an experience if the above mentioned 2 machines are the only machines you have tried for a comparison.
Not sure where you are booked in down there, but a couple of them are new and have not had proper training. We are booked to fly down there and provide training between July 3 and 9.
Based on your info…
but I had to give you a strong dose)Start with your feet very close, and they too can be moved out gradually as you see fit. Don’t move your feet wider than position 2 on your first session.
You need to use a machine to strengthen muscles around the joints which will reduce the progression of your arthritis. If your arthritis is an inflammatory type, avoid using the machine during a flare up. To achieve the strengthening benefits,
make sure the machine is running at a minimum of 15Hz, and progress up to 26Hz dependent on your ability, tolerance etc.. Realistically, I don’t think you should go beyond around 22Hz in your first session (Sorry Di
When using the machine in this range, never lock you legs, keep soft knees. Bending the knees will also work the muscles around the knee joint, so if this is a problem area with your arthritis, this a small squat would be a good exercise. On the other hand, straighten those legs up a little, and this will send the vibrations into the lower back and therefore strengthen those muscles if that is a problem area.
The muscles most directly applied to the platform, will be the muscles that are primarily activated. So keep that in mind.
Don’t exceed 10 minutes on the plate and break up your poses into bouts of a minute or so, with small breaks in between poses. You may find initially just 5 minutes will suffice.
Be safe, our machines are not your massage toy variety.
Any other questions, feel free to shoot me an email via our contact us page or call us on 1800497378.
Cheers,
Murray
Hi again Liz, The Pulse Trainer (Infiniti) is a good machine when set on pivotal/see-saw setting. It is very gentle and helps with lower back pain, walking (relieves some stiffness), and tightens the internal pelvic organs. I use one from time to time BUT because of changes in the supplying company you might find backup/repair if needed, to be a problem. Also when switched to lineal/upright vibration the machine has a “rough” feel to it. It is very low to the ground so easy to step on and off BUT impossible to do some of the regular Safety program positions on.
I would have recommended it If I had not tried a HyperVibe – the small increased cost is nothing compared with the extra value, as you will be able to start off with gentle therapy and as you get stronger and more flexible you can move up in the level of training you can get with that machine. I hope you have a good experience when you trial it.
Liz…
Make sure you come back and give us a full rundown on your experience.
Just the honest brutal truth will do.
Hi all
Well I had my first 10 minute session today with the HyperVibe…
What can I report? Hmmm..not too much at this stage. I stood on a vibrating platform for 5 short 2 minute exercises with 30 second rests in between.
1)standing, feet almost together, knees slightly bent.
2)standing, slight squat.
3)standing up on toes
4)one foot off machine in lunge position
5)same as 4, on other leg.
The machine was preprogramed for the above and was set on 9-14hz range. I understand that I am not suppose to expect too much at this stage and that it is a slow process, so I will keep an open mind.
I can’t really comment any further at this stage.
Will keep you informed of any progress.
Liz
What a weird program, total under-utilizing the unit. And no upper body work?
And why so slow ? I understand the standing pose being slow as it is not meant to be over 14hz. But when going into a squat there is no buildup needed, as the involuntary reflexes used are born with you not developed over a period of time.
Sounds like the kind of stuff Power Plate does.
Because I have used a HyperVibe machine and seen the wall poster showing the 4 set programs I understand they gave you the “Recovery” frequency program which makes some sense as you said you have knee and ankle stiffness, some arthritis and haven’t exercised for some time. I don’t understand why you weren’t given any upper body positions unless kneeling is a problem for you. Also I know the machine can be turned on and off at any time so you could have had very individual attention rather than using the set program.
I know Murray from HyperVibe will comment so let’s see what he says. Right now I’m wishing there was a studio with machines like the ones I work with (not available in Adelaide yet) as here you would do the whole program using a machine with side handlebars to hold for support, to take some of the pressure off your legs.
Did you go to a studio where they will work with you or was it a showroom set up to sell you a machine?
Hi Lloyd and Di
I was slightly disappointed about all lower body work, but I think the program may have been developed for me because it was my first time and my lower limbs are my biggest issue, with very stiff knees and ankles.
Di, yes it was part of the “recovery” program, and yes, kneeling is a bit of a problem for me. I will however, ask for some upper body work as I really want to see how much I can use the machine. It is a studio that I am attending and I am suppervised, but they also sell the machines, so are obviously suppliers too. What machine do you work with?
I don’t expect miracles, but I would love to wake in the mornings and not feel any aches and pains in my legs and feet….so I am hoping for some improvement. I have booked 12 sessions and will be hoping for some results. Time will tell!
I felt 2 minutes in a squat position a little bit difficult to maintain so perhaps less of the squat and a bit more upper body work.
Cheers for now! Liz
That is one of the things I found confusing. A 2 min squat straight off in a physio program ( we only do 1 min in training )
But as long as they let you progress to the whole body later that sounds reasonable. Bid soft foam mat for knees should be ok. Quite important to get “everything” moving.
Hi Liz,
I agree with most of the comments here. However, I would be hesitant to put you straight into upper body on your first go given your info, well at least not in the training speeds. I think you will find upper body on a lineal machine is not as harsh due to lower amplitude settings.
Can I ask if you are at Hypoxi, Glenelg?
This is one of our new clinics and they are waiting for some training from us in the next couple of weeks. If you are at Hypoxi, I think you can put much of it down to inexperience.
I will call our new clinics down in Adelaide tomorrow. We do provide them with all this info, including the poster Di mentions. I find that many people are initially unsure of the higher frequencies, and they try using the machine in the lower frequencies expecting to see the same results. This might be what is going on down here.
Hi Liz,
Sorry for the slow response on this. I spoke with Hypoxi Glenelg, and they tell me that you disliked frequencies above 14Hz, hence you requested to remain below 15Hz.
The feeling you dislike, is the stretch reflex. Putting hundreds of people in a week on our machine at trade shows etc.. I find this a common reaction. Some people take to it like a duck to water, some are really unsure and dislike it initially.
It is important to understand that strengthening benefits are achieved primarily via the stretch reflex, and unless you are using the machine within that zone, you will not get the full benefits.
My suggestion would be to perhaps sit in front of the machine on a chair, with your feet on the platform. Use the machine in a range of frequency above 14Hz, and expereince the reaction of your body to the reflex. After a few minutes of this, try again standing on the machine in a small squat, feet together in the centre of the platform at 15Hz. It really is just a matter of adapting, and understanding that that odd feeling you get when the muscles begin to contract is not doing you any harm.