Pivotal and Lineal Machines
Note: I would like to point out these two systems should never be in competition with each other. It is purely a marketing war to do so - not a science driven argument.
Lineal Design
Predator versus prey
To understand this theory look at yourself in the mirror. Front and side on. Ask yourself a couple of questions.
Yes they may appear unrelated at first but bear with me, I will explain.
(a) Where are my eyes situated ?
(b) Where is my muscle mass on my body ?
You will of course find your eyes situated at the front of your skull. This will tell you we have binocular vision - we have depth perception (we can tell how far away something is). This allows us to project an attack at an object with very good accuracy, suggesting we have evolved as a PREDATOR species.
This is very different than some animals like horses that can not. This is why they will jump over a puddle only an inch deep. They are not nervous about water, they just can not tell how deep the puddle is. They are PREY animals where peripheral vision comes in very handy when something is trying to catch you from behind and eat you. Unlike grass that does not run away.
Eyes front of the head: PREDATOR
Eyes side of the head: PREY
So our body is a well developed for seeing an object; judging its distance; running towards and catching it with enough force to kill it. This would also come in handy if we had to “fight” for our lives. Which is why we automatically turn to face an attacker if surprised.
Running quickly at something by definition also gives us the ability to run away from something. That’s where the “flight” part comes in.
A Quick Experiment
Get someone to push you from the front while you push back. Then get them to push you from the side while you try to again push back. You will notice the marked difference in the amount of energy it takes to push you around. From the front you have good all round ability to not only balance but also fight back. As opposed to the side where all your energy will be used just to keep balance.
This clearly shows us that the human body is well developed to absorb and produce large amounts of Lineal pressure. But a much lower degree of Pivotal can be handled. When in contact with a Vibration Platform the body not only gets pushed - but it also pushes back. So a direct powerful response will always be favoured for a “workout ” type movement. As these larger muscles use up far more calories than any other exercise program in an involuntary reflex due to their sheer size and cell mass.
Muscle Placement
The actual placement and size of muscles on our body also backs up this equation. As our muscles are placed in a Lineal fashion. Take the legs for example. The Quad and Hamstring (our “drive” muscles) are much larger by far than our Adductor muscles. We can never run sideways as fast or as powerfully as we can forwards.
The moment we vary from the Lineal path before us we exponentially lose power.
Pivotal Design
The above theory in no way though displaces the importance on Pivotal movement - as this is the primary rebalancing response and without this our Lineal design would have a major flaw - quite simply we would keep falling over.
Our support muscles must be kept in balance with our “drive” muscles or injury would be inevitable. As every time you tried to turn you would fall sideways. In fact all the smaller groups of muscles that make up our rebalancing responses are also responsible for holding our body together.
This is very apparent when athletes are clearly strong but a minor injury brings them down.
This type of weakness can also be responsible for such things as incontinence or the more serious fall of an older person cased by pelvic instability - which in some cases can lead to an early death due to blood clots in bone fractures.
The sideways action of a Pivotal machine is the most effective way of targeting these weak points in our design - but in my opinion would mainly fall into the “Therapy” mindset and should be treated with even more caution than Lineal programs. As correct positioning of a new client is much harder to judge on a Pivotal unit.
Conclusion
Both systems are valid but should be used for different purposes - not in competition with each other. The only reason I personally favour Lineal for use with the public at the moment is it’s ease of use. In fact the first machine I ever made was Pivotal - and I will be releasing one in the near future. I picture all good Studios, Gyms and Physio’s will have both types of machines and will also hopefully have the appropriate programs attached.
154 Comments
Am I missing something , who is Thomas ?
Thanks Lloyd for the overview,
Bryant
Giovanni…
I notice Globus had taken the pivotal unit off its website. What was the reason for this ?
Hello Lloyd,
I hope Globus is upgrading the product info of their website. They have introduced a few new models of pivotal plates which were not found in their website.
TC
What is your opinion of the vibraphirm?
- Harold
March 24th, 2008Which is better for weight loss, oscillating or lineal?
- Mike Hair
March 24th, 2008Hi Harold,
As far as weight loss is concerned, a descent lineal machine with correct posturing would expend more energy than the oscillating machine.
Remember all exercise/weight loss is an energy in energy out equation.
80% of weight loss comes from nutrition ie: eating the right food at the right time and the right amount.Mike
- Mike Hair
March 24th, 2008And that folks is straight from the horses mouth! LMAO
LLoyd,
I hate to say it but if your article is true than why did Doctor Brent Alvar and Stephen Kelly from Arizona State University prove the isokinetic muscular response from a PIVOTAL vibration platform equivalent to a lieneal motion like cycle ergometry. Has a person’s peak torque been tested on a dynomometer using lineal vibration platforms?–Did it fare better or worse than a pivotal platform? You have mentioned several times that these vibrations are different–you must also note that Pivotal platforms have 4 functions ( balance(5Hz), circulation(10-12Hz), training(18-20Hz) and muscle tone(24-30Hz) as researched by the Galileo team. Why have most of the studies that are plastered all over the internet use a medical grade Galileo platfom which is PIVOTAL?This is no personal attack on you and as you know im in no position to question you because I am just an importer of these products who wants them tested before distribution. You taught me to question the industry and have my products tested. I have maintained my ethical business practices and kept to my end of the deal by taking my products into a University lab for testing. I did not pay the University anything to do this. Doctor Alvar was familiar with WBV technology from previous studies and volunteered to test out my products. My question to you then Lloys is how can you state so confidently that Lineal vibration is so much better than Pivotal vibration? Are you a PhD in Kinesiology or are you so full of conviction that you have begun stating your theories as laws. Additionally, show me any true testing that either of these vibration is safer than the other.
I don’t try to badmouth lineal vibration but I do offer those who didn’t like lineal vibration another option. Those of you who have tried both know the difference and in that statement alone enough truth is not stated– All WBV machines are not created equal. Comparing two specific machines with different amplitudes and frequencies and then creating generalizations of the technologies based on those machines alone isn’t fair either. The percieved movements on them are like comparing apples and oranges– yet the actual tested muscle response is what we need to know not theories about what we think is beneficial— ALL I ASK FROM THE WBV COMMUNITY IS— WHY ARENT WE TESTING MORE? WHY AREN’T OUR GOVERNMENTS or DME ( DURABLE MEDICAL EQUIPMENT)MANUFACTURERS FUNDING MORE TESTS IF THE PRELIMINARY RESULTS SHOW A POTENTIAL FOR HEALTHIER LIVING?
- KG
May 12th, 2008Jon-
Thanks for the tone of your comment. It is respectful and challenging. It should make for some informative and passionate responses. From which I am sure we all will be able to learn or infer something from.
As to your pivotal vs lineal…I’ve never tried a pivotal unit because I heard it can shear your joints. I don’t know if that is actually the case, but my perception is you need to be a heck of a lot more careful on a pivotal unit than a lineal-it makes logical sense-but I suppose it could be just an urban wbv myth.
Being a sort that spooks easily, I’ll just stick to the lineal and sleep better at night.
I think Lloyd will have more testing done with his IVRTB thing which is in the works. Maybe that will be the start of more evaluations.
KG
The article did exactly as it was supposed to do , make people realize that there is room for both systems side by side and comparing them directly ( as paniced sales people where doing at the time I wrote the article in Feb. 2007 ) is not in the best interest of the industry or science.
Yes , some of the exercise parameters may match , as you stated……
” the isokinetic muscular response from a PIVOTAL vibration platform equivalent to a lineal motion like cycle ergometry”
But these tests only play a small part in the overall picture. All systems/machines have their limits depending on the actual design.
Think about this , if I wanted to sell a set of foam weights , I would state that a bicep curl is simply ….
” Distance traveled by the arm , full extension to full closure of the bicep ”
I didnt lie , just didnt include all the parameters like resistance , speed etc that would change the overall outcome as a form of exercise.
My arguement is simple, moving side to side quickly can not give an “identical” outcome to moving up and down quickly. And seeing as we are dealing with such high speed as so much movement I believe the differences are magnified.
As this article explains about feet placement …..
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/09/the-effect-of-pivotal-machines-on-posture
So “what are the exact differences” becomes a very important question.
As for using Lineal to start my company with…
That was for multiple reasons , using my own understanding and theory of involuntary reflexes and my aim of building units for obese people . No-one is forced to follow my theories and in fact none of the Lineal companies understood why I was building bigger units for or developing vibrating handle bars.
Time will tell if I was right , we will simply see who follows who.
The Pivotal market….
The market was blighted from day one due to the fact that the Asian manufacturors decided you can build a machine that seems to do its basic function with only one small motor.
Note: I asked those in the Pivotal sector to form an alliance with me to help sort fact from fiction ( re pivotal VS Lineal , safe Fq etc… ).
But all I got was a wall of silence. With no common ground to walk on I simply could not help them organize a good fight.
But things have changed. Galileo contacted me recently and we will now work together on a number of tasks.
- KG
May 12th, 2008Pineapple is going off!!!
is a Pineapple considered a Pivotal machine?
http://www.pineapple.la/
Does anyone here Pineapple or have Pineappled?
Please submit your expieriences. Hi there KG,
No - Pineapple is a vertical movement technology - and as discussed previously on this forum, perhaps in a niche of its own - with its unique near-weightless application and movement amplitude’s.
Thanks - we are working very strongly from our LA base to create safe, comfortable and high performance solutions, and will continue to spread through highly quality professionals.
- KG
May 13th, 2008Yeah. I saw you guys-studios-on a tv piece. Apparently a lot of good buzz from the glamour crowd in the LA area which should be good for your product.
are you going to sign up for Lloyd’s IVRTB deal he’s putting together? Additionally Lloyd-do you have the current list of signees as of now?
The only one I heard of thus far is Hypergravity-also located in SoCal.
KG
- KG
May 13th, 2008Lloyd-
Additionally any update of when your IVTRB site is coming out?
Not to put any pressure on you(:….but we here all view comments by users interested in various so called WBV concoctions and the obligatory “will this work/is it a good machine?” stuff.
But how many people don’t ask online and just order a $399 Noodle-Vibe or RickShaw Rattler only to be disappointed or in some cases injured?
Until its release, its open season on the unknowing public’s wallets.
My interest in this is personally knowing someone who got snowed. It’s not a pretty picture.
In response to Jon H., why is Vertical WBV better than Tilting:
There is a simple physics reason. Vertical produces a stronger load on the muscles of the leg. In a tilting platform the center of your hips is not moving up an down. This is because as one leg moves up, the otehr moves down. Therefore the rest of the body, from the hips up to the trunk is not moving up and down. Therefore the force acting on the legs is the g produced times the weight of the legs.Instead in a vertical platform, the trunk is also moving up and down; therefore the force transmitted to the legs is increased by the rest of the body mass times the g at the trunk (albeit the g at the trunk is not the same as the g at the legs, because there is a transmission factor which is less than one).
Altogether this results in a more energetic for a vertical platform exercise.
(the adjective lineal doesn’t exist in the English language, it is a misnomer; please let’s use the word vertical)
Hey Everyone,
Just got a call from a potential customer of mine asking about the “turbocharger” whole body vibration (australian based).
Perhaps it has been brought up but buyer beware of this machine. It is the same as Vibratrim, Vibraslim, Slim Vibes and Crazy Fit.
It seems this model that is $125 at wholesale is getting repackaged in every way possible all around the world.
I have used “vibraslim” (same machine) and it is easily the lowest quality pivotal I have tried (out of 6).
Its good that we keep track of all the different companies repackaging this cheap to buy and cheaply made unit.
Bryant
Lineal - arranged in a line
Linear, one-dimensional - of or in or along or relating to a line; involving a single dimension; “a linear measurement”
The reason why I dont use “vertical” , is not all machines are plates you stand on that go straight up and down .
Vertical….An object is in a vertical position when it is aligned in an “up-down” direction, roughly speaking perpendicular to the horizon or horizontal plane. …
Note: Therapy models designed for patients lying down or sitting come from different angles.
KG…
The I.V.T.R.B. is coming along nicely , I am just negotiating with a number of parties at present to make sure we are all singing the same tune when it is launched.
Very happy with recent breakthroughs.
I truly believe the Pivtoal vs. Lineal argument all comes down to our preference from user experience and consumer preference. Yet my main concern in all of this is CONSUMER SAFETY and FULL DISCLOSURE.
Personally, I only stick to pivotal platforms becasue it feels better. When I use lineal machines I get serious headches and temporary blurred vision. Thats enough for me to know that these machines aren’t right for me.
Physiologically- the Pivotal unit makes sense to me. I think of it like a ski or snowboard simulator that mimics muscular response from a non-stop mogul packed run. On skis- although you are moving forward, your legs are moving in an updown fashion influenced by uneven surfaces on either side of you. This situation seems even further enhanced when snowboarding.Right? You are stanced with knees slightly bent taking on impact one foot at a time sideways. Granted, the balance factor comes into play here which uses stabilizer muscles but the basic motion and foot placement relate.
Is is possible that we have it backwards. Maybe lineal vibration is the better choice for rehab due to its massaging properties and pivotal platforms are better for athletic performance becasue they engage the muscles more intensely?
Lloyd, I anxiously await your study with Galileo. I hope the results will breed a new generation of vibration training that incorporates both types. My thoughts are lineal for transverse vibration positions and Pivotal for longitudinal vibration poses.
What are your thoughts?
I doubt it is possible to do a side by side study pivotal versus lineal on two similar athletes or rehab clients but it would be interesting to see the results. Too many other factors could affect the outcome.
Jon, can you tell me how the upper body is sufficiently worked out on a pivotal machine? Apart from hands on plate and triceps dip, what else is there? Lineal vibration travels through the whole body. Plus I am spoilt with Lloyd’s brand of machine as I am able to workout (and re-hab where necessary) upper body through using vibrating (not just fixed) handlebars. I can’t imagine not being able to do this as it adds so much to my workout. I’m surprised other manufacturers don’t have vibrating handlebars. Within from the normal program where my whole body receives the vibrations, my arms, wrists, shoulders get worked by regular poses plus adding in the extras of “pull up” and “full body triceps dip”. I don’t see how these can be done on a pivotal machine.
Having said that, pivotal does have it’s place. Perhaps I am being mean but I see it as being useful for rehab for walking and maybe seasickness prevention if used for a time to get used to it - for now it makes me feel quite ill
This could have almost been an article , but it contains some of my own opinions and business plans so it isn’t
Saying it again , they are hard to compare and I don’t quite understand why people do ( except those with a sales interest ) , but I will explain it another way , using the differences of free weights to weight machines as an example..
A lineal machine is similar to a weight training machine such as a squat or bench press or even a pull up bar . These are favored by some trainers , especially for beginners as almost all the effort needed to lift the weight comes from the primary muscles .
Why is this important ?
When holding a free weight only 1/3rd of the pressure is taken by the lineal primary muscle , the dozens of secondary smaller stabilizing muscles are used extensively to help hold the weight in position and keep balanced , but not to actually lift. Now this does sound good as those stabilizing muscles are important , but when looking at such things as pure power to weight ratio or anaerobic stimulation for weight loss the figures don’t stack up.
E.G. If a male free bench presses 100kg. Only 33kg of that load is taken by the lineal primary muscles , not the full load , in other words the workload is spread over a very wide area. Which leads to the question , is 33kg enough pressure to tell the body to build more cells in the larger muscle groups. Most trainers would say no , so that means you have to up the weight to 130kg just so you can overload the primary’s just another 10kg. Do this you will plateau very quickly .
That’s why weight training machines were invented , it allows people to use all their available strength comfortably and safely in one lineal motion without feeling like its going to drop on their head. Kind of important if you want to give your client the chance to have a body composition change through building muscle and come back.
But as every trainer will tell you , using machines all the time can cause weak points through repeated non-use of the stabilizing muscles. So a good program will have both free weights and machines in them. And as I have said most responsible studios will eventually have both Pivotal and Lineal machines on the floor . At present I have a pose were you don’t hold on to anything called the super squat to help force people to target those stabilizers .
Now taking into account the above I will also add this into the mix…..
I can only speak from my experience but when I originally started up Vibra-Train I built Pivotal and Lineal commercial prototypes , I let my regulars choose ( some of those customers were over 140kg ) over the course of about 4 months which one they preferred. They came back almost unanimously with the Lineal so I went into production of that model..
Now I have my own theories about both systems and their limitations , most are to do with gravity , physics and bio-mechanics not really personal preference , but remember my mission is to introduce real vibration training to the public in what I believe the most friendly and safe manor possible to help fight obesity, its not for the athletes among us even though a number of athletes use our equipment at present , I have designed machines that will never go into my regular studios but special centers for those types of people.
So to recap , Pivotal will play a big part in the industry , they will be introduced into my company when I believe I have completed my first task.
And I think the industry may be missing the biggest point of all.
Instead of saying ” mine is better than yours ” isnt it all about getting people moving. Does it really matter if its straight up or down or side to side.
As long as its controlled , safe and we are telling the truth. Am I right ?
- Elle
August 4th, 2008Wow! I came here to get information on Whole Body Vibration machines and now I am just confused as to which direction to go, lineal or pivotal. Thanks!!
Elle,
For balance training, pivotal vibration plate is perhaps better than lineal.
For whole body fitness & strenthening training, lineal will be more effective and allows more possibilities of training poses.
In the market, almost all cheap vibration training devices (retail price around or below USD1,200.00) are pivotal mechanism.
Hope the above information help.
TC
Elle…
What exactly do you want from the machine ?
And please dont say a cheap machine that does it all.
Lots of my clients are interested in improving weak pelvic floor muscles. Having tried the Gallileo (and other bad pivotals!) pivotals do seem to work on this area far more intensely than the lineals. Within a minute of getting on the Gallileo I needed to get off to wee! Although I would like to get a pivotal at some point I can’t afford to yet. In the meantime I wondered whether Lloyd’s earlier idea of having one foot on the lineal and one on a stable surface would help people wanting to improve pelvic floor? Would a balance board help? How long would people need to be on the pivotal machine to purely work on pelvic floor? Any suggestions and comments most appreciated!
Yes you are correct. One foot on the plate the other on another surface ( slightly unstable if possible, small rebounder would be ok ) is a fine substitute for a Lineal device.
Have it on the lowest Fq setting , highest amplitude.
2 minute per leg should be good enough to get a response.
Thanks Lloyd - just checking that you meant good substitute for pivotal? So… 25hz - 6mm amp for 2 mins per leg? Will it still work on stable surface eg Reebok step?
Yes it is a good substitute for those who cant afford both.
A reebok step will be fine. A slightly unstable surface would just increase the effect.
Great thanks. Would one foot on different machines be good or very horrid and foolish!
We do the same here for athletes , but maybe a bit hard out for someone worried about improving weak pelvic floor muscles.
January 19th, 2008
Thomas, its your choice to join the discussions or stay away.