Let The Buyer Beware
This screen shot is from Pila-Vibe America - a site that we had listed on our WBV Vendors page. Pila-Vibe imported machines from South Korea.
Here is what the writing in red says (the large picture of the smirking girl is perhaps not the best graphic image to accompany the message) :
WE apologize to our past and present customers wanting to order the MPower 300 or Pila-Vibe vertical vibration machines, but since placing our order June 2/06 with Bioline/JX we have not received any product or our money back.
Bioline/JX are now declaring bankruptcy, and this has forced the closure of our company.
We are upset for the inconvenience to our customers caused by Bioline/JX and http://bioline.co.kr
Too bad if you happened to own one of these machines and you want some after-sales service.
NOTE: This is a statement from Pilavibe America. It is unclear whether their claims of Bioline bankruptcy are accurate.
62 Comments
Further warning….
The con may not stop there. Even if you do manage to get a decent unit.
Commercial consumers also need to be aware that some ” qualifications ” are only further marketing ploys.
We have a guy running around N.Z. at the moment ( ex Power-Plate staff ) , approching gyms that have purchased units ( Vibro-Gyms , Power-Plates , Body-Pulse , anything that moves etc…
Claiming he will qualify their staff for $400 each.
This is just not true and I am afraid will lead both customers and staff into a false sense of security.
- Harvey
February 24th, 2007Who is he?
His initials are RS.
But his name is irrelevant considering he is not the only individual doing this. It is happening in every country PowerPlate has entered.
Most of the time it is offered as an ” Extra” along with the sale of a Vibration unit.
The best protection is the simple question ” is this an independently recognized qualification “.
They will be forced to say no.
I will like to add I was asked to do this , with the material I had written over two years ago. But I did not want my studios to ever feel it was ok to stop learning.
Which is sometimes all these ” certificates ” seem to give licence to do.We all have such a long way to go.
An e-mail from a Certified Sales Agent of Power-Plate .
From: “Jim Wilson”
To: lloyd@vibra-train.co.nzFirst of all I don’t know where you got the idea that I am, and have been,
referring to the plastic Chinese model. My remarks are, and have been about
the original metal model…..Now do a quick honesty test. Ring up your local Power-Plate distributor and ask them where they are built.
News……
FitVibe the German company I was hoping would keep clean appairs to be in bed with the marketer of a number of cheap Asian vibration machines.This I see as a sign of desperation and goes against everything they previously stood for.
I will confirm this tommorrow.
Lloyd,
The FITVIBE EXCEL line has also obtained the European MDD label (Medical Device Directive) recently.
You probably know this Company, GymnaUniphy, is a leading manufacturer in physiotherapy equipments. I have been working with them since 1992. They have been very successful and I believe they do realize their success have been relied on good design and uncompromising high quality.
From my information, FITVIBE has been a very successful product line since its launch. I do not see any reason FITVIBE needs to compromise since their sales is going well globally.
I personally have complete confidence with GymnaUniphy and FITVIBE.
If you have heard anything from the market, I would like to know.
TC
TC….
I know , I have been a big supporter of their stance against sub-standard units to date.But Power-Plate was also once good , remember ?
I have been in contact with Keith Fisher/U.K. and awaiting confirmation from Peter Ceuppens / Sales Director of FitVibe.
I am hoping they reverse the decision after considering the damage it could do to their reputation.
If they have crossed over to working with these marketers with lower standards , there is no going back as far as I am concerned.
We will be on opposite teams.
TC….
follow link. You can see where the FitVibes image/rep/tests are being used to push Chinese products.http://www.elitefitness.co.nz/Home_Fitness_Equipment_87.aspx
I have seen this tactic before and know full well where it leads.
Lloyd,
I’ve already noticed last Saturday, that Elite Fitness had included the “Power-Plate NG” look Chinese-made device in their website. Now Elite also added another two Chinese-made small home devices.
I believe Elite Fitness have their reasons to do it no matter we like it or not. However, it is purely Elite Fitness own decision to carry also Chinese-made devices, it has nothing to do with GymnaUniphy or FITVIBE. I assure you FITVIBE is 100% German-made. I just got a shipment despatched from their facility in Berlin last week.
I shall talk to Elite Fitness.
TC
TC….
I am well aware of GymnaUniphy’s rights as a trader as I will remind you I own the rights to my units and label. I along with FitVibe have a choice in whom I deal with. And have said no to a number of sales of complete licenses due to my stance on this issue.FitVibe does not have to accept this situation. And will only do so for commercial gain.
Maybe pressure from you will help them understand the risk they take in doing so.
TC…..
Where was the Power-Plate made ?
Where is it made now ?
How do you think that happened ?There is a line that is crossed in those seemingly harmless deals. That ruins our industry.
Lloyd,
I fully understand your point.
I don’t think GymnaUniphy would like it IF they are aware that their dealers are carrying products from competitors.
In my territory, I could carry the Korean JETVIBE besides FITVIBE if I wanted. However, I have doubt on the Korean manufacturer’s knowledge on WBV and their quality therefore I decided not to carry it. My insistence has already costed me losing two business so far but I am proud of my decision. QUALITY ALWAYS COME FIRST!
I feel sorry that not everyone has the same vision as we do especially when it happens on friends.
I know Gary and Lindsay of Elite Fitness, they don’t look like people who would sell dumping prdoucts for easy money. I would like to believe that they have good strategical reason to show the Chinese-made devices in their line. Note! To show is different from to endorse or to sell!
TC
Lloyd,
From my information, Power Plate Next Generation is using Malaysian oscillators and the device is made in Guangdong Province, China. The city is either Shenzhen or Zhuhai, I could not remember exactly. For the latest model Power Plate Swiss Air, I don’t know.
TC
Lloyd,
“Where was the Power-Plate made ?
Where is it made now ?
How do you think that happened ?”I did not read your comment carefully and I got you wrong.
However, I don’t mind to repeat what quality of Power Plate is now because there could be new readers here from time to time.
GymnaUniphy always tell us to focus on our own advantages rather than to speak competitors’ weaknesses. In my opinion, if we stick to the fact, tell the truth, it is not necessary to be over-polite to competitors.
Lloyd, everything is possible. We can show concern if FITVIBE might become another POWER PLATE. However, we also have to look into the background of the two companies. POWER PLATE was founded by a retired athlete and has been handed over to a US Company. The POWER PLATE company is purely a “commercial machine”. GymnaUniphy has a very solid and strong background in making medical equipments. To heal or to harm persons is big concern for us and there is no room for compromise. I trust GymnaUniphy management has higher ethical standard.
I am not GymnaUniphy’s spokesman, I am just a small and unimportant dealer to them but I truly trust and like this Company, their people and most of their products (sorry not all, he…he…).
TC
TC….
you are wrong about Gary and Lindsey , they have already sold Asian units to the public. I had a meeting with both last year when they wanted help in not making a mistake re buying quality units. I recommended FitVibe. Not just for the machine , but their ethics.I am proud of you for resisting the easy money the cheaper Asian units could bring . Your reputation will proceed you. And I promise it will be repaid in ways you cannot imagine now.
“Lie down with dogs , get up with fleas ”
Always loved that one. And as you get older you see it’s effects.
Warning….. A $40,000 ( U.S.) machine ?
Mixing up electro-stimulation with this type of training is in my opinion one of the most dangerous things I have seen to date.
Comments people….
- Di
March 17th, 2007Lloyd…
Will you please explain the Bioplate Vibrating Platform for those of us who are having trouble with the French language website you posted. It appears to be using radio frequency to generate heat?
You’ve said that it’s dangerous. Can you please explain how/why. I don’t understand how that machine works at all and I do not work in the industry..I am a fairly regular user of WBV and so I like to know about the types of machines available and especially about their safety, or lack of safety.
I see that the Bioplate Vibrating Platform page says “There does not need the presence of a coach because all is explained perfectly.” This wouldn’t work for me at all. I still need a coach for every session.
Their ” Radio Fq ” is just another version of electro-stimulation. The energy output will cause a myotatic reflex to occur in the muscle.
I would be concerned a “reverse” contraction could be induced during a Vibration Training session.
You have 2 scenerios either of which I dont see as safe.
(a) The muscle is “locked up” during an involuntary relex causing the pressure to be moved from the girth of the muscle straight into the tendon area. This would mean the same amount of pressure designed to be applied over an area of 10,000+ cells could be applied to about 300 instead. Which is the exact opposite of what Vibration Training is trying to do.
(b) A mid-cycle contraction is caused which in theory could rip the mucscle or tendon right in half. Now that may sound like I am being dramatic but it happens to athletes all the time. With less pressure than that applied to this equation.
Note: This is not some kind of scare tactic by me. I just want everbody to think before leaping.
To comment on the Electronic Coaching systems. It is not the only machine with such program. In fact the Fit-Vibe medical has had that running for years. With little success. I think they are unsafe .
One of the electronic systems I originally designed has a talking TV that registers your approximity to the machine. Shows full instruction on a large disply ( an actual LCD TV that hangs on the wall in front of unit ) . And automated the entire workout. Very nice. And could have potentially save all our owners a fortune in instructors fees.
Just one major problem.
It could not get a person back into position once out. Hence I believe instructors that care for safety will always be needed around these machines.
I am now firmly in the camp that a good instructor is worth more than the machine.
- Mike Hair
March 17th, 2007I’m with you on this one Lloyd. Some of my clients who after 3 months of WBV still need put back into position on a very regular basis.
Thanks in advance for your time reading this.
I was alerted to this posting by an Australian contact. This is going to be long in order to reply to all that has been posted about Korea, apologies in advance.
I’m very pleased to find this site, it looks to be full of great information and I look forward to exploring it. However, first I want to reply to this posting about Bioline going bankrupt that is not correct.
My name is Kerry Williamson and we represent Bioline in Australia and New Zealand. So I am able to write regarding this matter with some authority.
The company did downsize and go through restructuring. As for the Canadian distributor related to the message used - it is a Canadian not American distributor - yes he had some problems with orders. We offered to help him but in the end he went a different direction. I still maintain that Bioline did not attempt to cheat him, that the situation is the result of major misunderstandings.
My offer to act as intermediary still stands if he wants to contact me again. However, I am a distributor for the company and do not own or run the company, nor share in any profits from the company, so I can only mediate at best. But until I see evidence otherwise to date it is one of the typical Korean mismanagements of a problem with a distributor: it is common over here to avoid something in the hopes that it will fix itself in time. That is why we operate our company, providing an interface to avoid issues like this occurring. By the way, the Canadian distributor is an excellent guy and we are deeply disappointed that we did not get to help him. He is definitely not, in our opinion, at fault here.
There has been a lot of frustration and anger between both parties so it is understandable that the Canadian distributor posted that message before moving on to become a PowerPlate distributor. In the years we have been working with Bioline, and other Korean companies, we have experienced our own struggles. In general, working with Korean companies can be very difficult from time to time. But ultimately we win through in the end.
We stand by the Bioline product and Korean manufacturers. Our work with the big companies like LG, Samsung and Hynix, and the small companies such as Bioline, have shown us that they are good to do business with if approached in the right way.
Regarding after sales service. If any problems did occur with the Bioline company regarding servicing we would deal with the problem ourselves. It is our promise to our clients, not Bioline’s, that after sales service agreements will be honored to the full. But for the most part Korean products are not substandard. For example, the JetVibe is a good platform: we just chose to go with Bioline instead. None of our clients have had any operating problems with Bioline products over the past 2 or more years now.
China and Taiwan are a major concern regarding quality and safety. We have tested some of the platforms ourselves: very underpowered. But then you get what you pay for and an affordable home model is hard to make. Look at treadmills for the home! Some pretty poor stuff there if you can’t pay the price.
There is no con going on here and I am more than willing to back that statement up. I’ll answer any questions you might have as long as they do not infringe on any areas that Bioline or the Canadian distributor might consider a breech of confidence.
I’d be happy to discuss how we can improve the vibration industry with you Lloyd, or anyone else on this blog. This is not just a profit based business for us, we believe strongly in the industry and want to see it do well. We also hate to see anyone mislead or cheated, and will do all we can to help them avoid that happening.
Thanks for the chance to make a comment and thanks again for your time,
Sincerely,
Kerry Williamson
CEO KNL Natural Inc.
Seoul South KoreaPS: When clients approach us to ask who we think are good in the industry, of course we say ourselves, but we also recommend Vibro-gym. A good product and a great bunch of guys: we always enjoy getting together with them at expos. Of course we think ours is better
but they run a good second best in our opinion.Kerry Williamson….
To state for the record , you are saying in your proffesional opinion the Bio-Line product is comparable to a Vibro-Gym ?
Please note : We have both units here in N.Z.
I do appreciate you wanting to be loyal to your company. But this is not a marketing site. People come here for clear cut answers.
You also mentioned Jet-Vibe by Smitechasia. Do you understand that is a Korean medical unit built along the same specs as the Fit-X by Biz-Medic .
I personally purchace other medical equipment of Smitechasia and do find them a reliable company.
But they do not sell workout models ?
Lloyd:
Thanks for the comments.
My apologies if you thought I was marketing, not at all my intention.
My intention is to make it clear that the Korean company Bioline is not bankrupt and that the equipment, and Korean equipment in general, is not inferior as appears to be implied here.
Thanks again for the opportunity of commenting.
Best regards,
Kerry.
Seoul South KoreaPS: As for the comments regarding the other platforms.
Yes, we know them and if memory serves me correctly, when we first saw JetVibe at the COEX it was presented to us as both a medical treatment and exercise vibration platform.
However, this was quite a few years back now and it may have been an earlier model. That is the one I was thinking of when I mentioned JetVibe.
Important Notice……
I will no longer be mentioning specific brands if asked about ” Good or Bad machines .Reason…..
I now have a folder of 118 different models. With a new one being released each week. Also some companies are deliberatly changing names every couple of months to counter the effects of “negative branding”.Also some brands are making deals with sub-standard manufacturors and marketers. So even a good unit could become bad overnight.
I believe it is in the publics best interests to now only concentrate on questions and comments regarding
(a) Quality ( what to look for )
(b) Safety
(c) Ethics
(d) New Developments
(e) Theory- Jim B. Neathery
April 9th, 2007I have just read all the letters and comments posted. I would appreciste your comment if possible. I am 76 and have worked out 3 to 4 times a week for 14 years. 185# - 5′10″. I have lower back and knee problems. My wife is 75 and a cancer survivor and not in very good physical condition. I have read about different machines on the internst for hours and I am totaly confused at this point. I went to Houston, TX today(90 miles from Beaumont, TX) and was instructed on a Commercial Power Plate and I am totaly amaised at the results. Can you recommend (2) home models that will be satisfactory to use in my home. Please HELP! Thanks, Jim
Hello Jim,
I personally suggest you to go to a studio with good quality devices for vibration training. It is because you need an experienced instructor to guide you through the training for optimal result.
If you really want to buy one home, go for a good quality commercial device.
A home vibration training device could be cheaper in price, smaller in size and lighter in weight. However, it also means a compromise on vibration energy. To produce a strong g-force, powerful oscillators are needed. To keep a powerful vibration device from walking around itself, a heavy base is needed. In order to perform different training positions, a larger platform is more convenient.
Furthermore, don’t forget the factors of reliability and durability.
Power Plate is famous in vibration training market. It is famous because the company puts in large volume of marketing efforts. “Most famous” does not equal to “The Best”. McDonald’s is the most famous in hamburgers, do they have the best quality hamburgers, DEFINITELY NOT!
If you really decide to buy a vibration training device for yourself, do some research, shop around and have trials, don’t trust only product catalogues. I would like to give several tips:
1. For the conditions of your wife and yours, I would recommend lineal type device. Pivotal type is not good for hip joints and lower back, in my own opinion. Some devices emphasize they produce multi-directional vibration; in my opinion, they might have technical difficulty in controlling their devices to vibrate in pure vertical direction. Multi-directional vibration may create shearing force which is a potential risk for joint injury. If so-called multi-directional vibration was good, perhaps we could achieve good training result by riding bus or train!
Hope the above information help!
TC
- Kris
April 10th, 2007Hello Jim,
After following the advice in this blog for dependable home models one would have to recommend the Hypergravity home model if one only wants a small, easier to move around, but strong steel model. But … it will walk due to size. Hypergravity has the newer Olympic Pro heavier version with bigger platform, also recommended for home use as well as professional use, but it is much heavier and due to its size I’ve found that it won’t fit through normally sized doorways if one has to move it through such to get it to its place in the home.
Now the WAVET (wavexercise.com) is a similarly larger sized newer model for the home - very heavy and dependable - also could be used professionally, but its handle comes separate so it could be turned sideways and maneuvered through home doorways and then assembled where you wish to place it. They also offer a white glove service to deliver and place machine where you want it and assemble it. They, as yet, don’t appear to have an extended warranty beyond one year but promise good service and have a good reputation (per this blog’s comments). They, as yet, don’t offer the side rails that Hypergravity just recently added to theirs. These bars can offer more vibration to upper torso - esp. if one could not easily get into the other lowering positions on platform itself for the same attention to upper torso.
The lightest, most maneuverable model is the Hypergravity Home model - yet, is strong and dependable. The smaller platform will deny you certain position ability.
These are all lineal versions. It’s just too bad that we are not able, in our area, to test these very expensive machines at local studios and have to make decisions only on what we read … and then have to trust our own positioning for safety!
Please correct me if I am wrong in any of thise advice. I know that there are more offerings if one goes to a local studio, but we’re asking here for dependable home use models.
Just to show everbody how low/incompetent some marketers are, follow this link…
http://www.theslimcenter.com/vibration_exercise.htm
The site has directly copied my entire website word for word, that is all original material written by myself.
Absolute proof of the extent of their total dishonesty.
I will post the name of the PERSON responsable on my website.
The company involved is Vibra-Slim based in Canada. They sell a cheap chinese Pivotal machine.
The same person running this compasny was kicked of this board earlier for posting false statements/claims under different names by admin.
A call has been made to the company involved but the site is still up.
So.
The names of the individuals supporting this Plagiarism are now on my ” The Clean-up List ” forum on my website . Just follow the ” Good Vibes, Bad Vibes ” link.
Click on my name to get to link.
- mike Hair
April 30th, 2007Hang on a minute, weren’t these the same people that were kickd off this blog for talking rubbish and giving you a hard time?
Seems to me they obviousily think Lloyd is the industry leader when it comes to Vibration Training !! Why else would they steel all his writings and attach them to there web site. Yes , same company. I would usually consider it a compliment and a kind of victory, considering how much energy they put into convincing everyone I was wrong about my theory’s before on this site.
Except for the fact they are using my work to rip people off that is.
So instead I consider it an insult.
- Di
May 2nd, 2007Here’s a Quote for you Lloyd:
“Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc -
We gladly feast on those who would subdue us”
(The Addams Family Motto)
Something for people to remember, before they piss you off, eh!
We have interest to sale your plate in Switzerland.
Did you have an agent?
Best regards
Philippe BaumMy prediction has come true…
At the beginning of “Let the buyer beware”…
I had a discussion with someone about the future problems even a good company could face once the rot set in. I warned that once certain lines are crossed you can not go back and I begged them to reconsider.
“There is a line that is crossed in those seemingly harmless deals. That ruins our industry.”
This company is now losing massive sales due to its own sales-reps talking people into buying the cheaper Chinese units essentially saying to them…
” but you can get 5 of these for the price of one of theirs ”
“Lie down with dogs , get up with fleas ”
- KG
August 12th, 2007Lloyd and all others regarding the Chinese comment:
Be very wary of units from this region. The States right now has an epedemic of faulty merchandise-tires(recent 225,000 recall) food-pets dying, toothpaste-scores dead in Panama. This stuff is all in the news….Think a Vibration platform could be in the mix?? The bottom line is you just don’t know.
Check out this article from Forbes - It’s all about “Quality Fade”. It is beyond disturbing. Beware.
February 13th, 2007
I hope everbody reading this now fully understands this is real. Someone somewhere lost their money or livelihood.
That same company asked me to be involved. I declined.
This is why I will not stop fighting.
The V.T.A. will be compiling a list of individuals involved with these companies. And posting them.