Exercise Lecturer Cautions Against Vibration Training Claims
Dr Sue Broadbent is a lecturer in exercise prescription at the Institute of Human Nutrition and Health in Wellington, New Zealand. She makes the following statements in New Zealand’s Sunday Star Times.
“There’s some evidence it may improve fitness and yield better results than normal resistance training with weights, but it’s not increasing cardiac fitness at all.
“In other words, it won’t prevent you having a heart attack and it’s not going to help you lose weight or increase your metabolic rate.” From the Sunday Star Times.
Broadbent is heading up reseach commissioned by NZ’s Accident Compensation Comission who funds the rehabiliation of injured athletes.
“There is anecdotal evidence that whole body vibration may reduce inflammation associated with soft tissue injury. But we don’t know if that’s true, or how it’s supposed to work.”
101 Comments
- Phillip
February 6th, 2007Sam, still not answering my questions?? you make statements that when questioned you dont answer. Only continue on a selective path.
Nope not Lloyd, wished I had his knowledge though, and am working on the type of physigue he has acheived through vibration training.
1000’s of people in NZ alone are benefiting from vibration training including me, weight loss is part of it. I dont need research to tell me that. I know its happening. My muscles burn, I sweat, I tone As I asked before maybe you can tell me whats happening??
Oh and who are you really? - where are you from, I travel around regularly and can prove to you in person, I am not Lloyd. Would be interested to know who you are
Sam Lee…
all your concerns are valid. But I am here to fix them. Not make them worse.But you seem to be very confused as to the Past vs the Future.
Hard for those not in the real industry to percieve I know. But please try anyway.
And Phillip..
don’t expect Sam Lee to front up in person , it wont happen . He appairs to playing the corperate game where accountability ( ie. putting your name to something ) is a dirty word.But who knows , maybe he is a real person with honest intentions. You will soon know.
Also I welcome his baiting , as it gives me the opportunity to show the readers what I have had to put up with.
My story and exposure of stolen/bullshit research etc… was posted for all to see on my website.
Dated Nov 2005 ?- Mark
February 6th, 2007Lloyd , Phillip & everyone else claiming these fantastic amazing results, whilst i’m glad to hear there is a new innovation in the fitness industry, as with any industry things must be proven to be correct. Your anecdotal evidence is encouraging, but the public and any govt agency looking to subsidise any health benefitting activity need independant research and results. I’m interested to know which studies / research you have had done or are currently performing (by independant means) to back up the claims / anecdotal evidence being made. At the end of the day everything can only come down to what has been proven and what will be proven in the future and although some people seem to have a distaste for ‘academics’ the general public, myself included will continue to only trust these people as they have earnt the respect and are constantly monitored by their peers who are also highly methodical and acurate in their research methods. Instead of raving about how this Dr and that Dr are making false claims or misleading how about you produce some peer reviewed independant research to back up these claims? simple really stops the bickering which is very similar to that which i see at the childcare center my girlfriend works at
- Phillip
February 6th, 2007Mark,
You claim to be talking for the “general public” I would say that you are not talking for quite a lot of the general public. Why are numbers doing vibration training increasing? If it doesn’t work then sure, they wont come back, but its working for me and countless others. We are not all acedemcics, I dont know why it works, however, quite simply it works - thats enough for me to keep doing it, believing in it and defending it.
Mark…
please name me just one of your trusted academics that have ” built ” a machine that works.As this is the ” peer ” I will be more than glad to confir with.
Note: I have also not asked for any subsidy or Govt. help with my project.
And it alarms me you consider body-fat% loss , increased BMR , increased strength , pain reduction etc…
As ” FANTASTIC ” and ” AMAZING ”
Thses results are something most Movement + Pressure programs should provide.
I pray you are not in charge of others motivation and health. With those self imposed limitations everyones doomed.
- Mark
February 7th, 2007I must have missed the part where i implied you had asked for a subsidy Lloyd! The “fantastic and amazing results” i refer to was born straight from a website… http://www.vibratrain.co.nz
“to give you the kind of health you would normally achieve from spending hours in the gym, and it only takes 10 minutes!”
that’s a pretty “fantastic” claim and yet you seem so defensive when all i’m asking (& by the looks of it a number of other people)is to back these claims up with independant research. It’s great to hear that you’re putting together your own machines, the industry can only assume that because you are on the moral and ethical highground that you are also spending as much, if not more to have these machines independently tested and the claims proven by research?
And thanks for your last extremely positive and motivating comment, it further serves to prove that you can only revert to childish retorts when pushed to front up.
- Phillip
February 7th, 2007Mark & Sam, why dont you get your friend/work colleague Dr Broadbent to answer Lloyds Shaws comments about her article.
You guys aren’t doing a very good job.
- Sam Lee
February 7th, 2007Phillip (Lloyd),
You still don’t get it. Science is based on proven research. Lloyds argument is that because there is no study proving you can’t lose weight, the Dr is erroneous is saying there’s no proof. But thats how science works, you can’t claim something until there is proof. And as I said earlier, Lloyd agreed whole heartedly with the Dr on National Radio
Sam
- Mark
February 7th, 2007It’s ok Phillip, Lloyd has already said that he will be getting a retraction out of Dr Broadbent (whom i’ve never meant) I look forward to seeing that, Perhaps someone should let the Dr. know what’s going on
- Phillip
February 7th, 2007Sam, why is that people feel muscle burn and sweat and lose weight during vibration training?? I may sound like a broken record but you never respond.
Oh of course its a figment of thier/our imagination - cant be happening because so far its beyond the academics to figure out why its happening.
Phillip (not Lloyd)
- mike Hair
February 7th, 2007Incase we are forgetting guys the good DR made a definitive statement saying that WBV does not help you lose weight or increase your BMR. She has not done any studies to back this statement.
Also as we all know not all machines are equal, so studies done on a vibro-gym cannot be compared to a vibra-train model. - Sam Lee
February 7th, 2007Phillip,
People may feel burn, they may sweat, they may lose weight. Thats great. But thats NOT scientific proof.Look at the recent case where Sanitarium was convicted of false advertising for claiming that So Good milk lowered cholestrol. In that case there was a study showing So Good may lead to lower cholestrol in a group of middle aged men. But because Sanitarium didn’t state that the benefit was only scientifically proven in middle aged men they were criminally prosecuted under the medicinces act and fair trading act.
And what do you know - vibra train includes lowering cholestrol as a benefit on its website. That breaches the fair trading act and the medicines act.
There is evidence of of a lot of benefits of vibration training but weight loss and cholestrol lowering aren’t proven.
Remember as well the Dr is not advertising a benefit. Vibra Train is and needs the proof to back up its words.
I have only been in the health industry for just over 2 yrs. As I was busy in the mortuary working before that.
So I believe I have a good reason to be slightly behind in proving myself and my machines.Vibration Therapy on the other hand has been available for research since 1912 ? By any academic that decided to prove or disprove any theory surrounding this technology.
Maybe you could ask the very relevant question of , why was it left up to a mortician to do the work ?
A note to all…
Read carefully
I voluntarily come here to answer questions from those who seek information about Vibration Training/Therapy.
And will continue to do so.
But I will no longer respond to those people who obviously have other agenda’s or repeat questions already answered ( as per Kirk , this forum has an entire section on what you ask..).
I am sorry guy’s but you stick out like sore thumbs even to the less experienced.
It brings the tone of the entire website down. And will no longer be tolerated by myself. If someone else would like to answers them , be my guest.
…
- Phillip
February 7th, 2007Linda & Sam, thank you for the ultimate compliment saying that I am Lloyd. At least I know who he is and what he stands for.
You and a few others have suddenly appeared since Lloyd dared to question one of your “respected academics”
Lloyd, well done, most people will see this as a concerted attack becuase you rattled someones cage. Keep up the good work.
Winston Churchill
” You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life “.
- Sam Lee
February 8th, 2007Mike,
I’m not trying to attack Lloyd, just asking some very simple questions:1. Show me the research proving 1,000 calories in 10 minutes.
2. Show me the research proving weight loss from vibration training alone.
3. Show me the research proving cholestrol loss from vibration training alone.
4. Yes/no - do the vibra train machines comply with the ISO vibration regulations for exposure limits to vibration. (You may wish to ask him this question yourself as I see from his website that you have purchased some of his machines.)Note I am not asking whether vibration training increases strength, flexibility, bone mass density as there is compelling research evidence that it does this.
If Lloyd is big enough to attack a qualified researcher credibility and ethics then he needs the research to back up his allegations. I say the emperor has no clothes and fundamentally does not understand how vibration training works.
- Kirk
February 8th, 2007Hi Lloyd
I am sorry if I have ask a repeat question, I have just never seen the answer anywhere. Could you please direct me to it?
Thanks
- Wayne Campbell
February 8th, 2007Hi Mark what did you mean by this statement/threat
“Go for the retraction Llyod can you put your money where your mouth is? I think you need to be pretty careful in how you bag somepeople it won’t take long till someone bites back.”
Dr Broadbent made a statement that vibration training wont lose weight a definitive statement. Wheres her research to back that up?
Kirk….
I can not simplify the difference any more with missing out major features that help define a units abilities.http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2006/10/the-difference-between-therapy-and-training-machines
- Sam Lee
February 8th, 2007Wayne,
Check out the following link to a study published in the International Journal of Sports Medicine. Their conclusion was: “24 weeks whole body vibration training did not reduce weight, total body fat or subcutaneous fat in previously untrained females” - Mark
February 8th, 2007Hi Wayne, I’ll leave the threat making to Lloyd. My statement was that if Lloyd says he’s going to get a retraction then he should follow that up with actions. I agree the doctor did make that claim, without being privy to her research results i can’t answer your question but i can ask you where is the research to back up the claim that it does help you to lose weight??
- Kirk
February 8th, 2007Thank you Lloyd.
So Sam Lee ,
finally someone agree’s the Power-Plate doesnt work exactly the way it should. Thats why no one any longer deals with them.It can be concluded then that any unit of lesser quality than a Power-Plate is a waste of time.
This is why I have such a hard line against any company dealing in low quality machines.
They KNOW they cant work. But will take your money anyway.
Not cricket.
- Wayne Campbell
February 8th, 2007Mark & Sam I own a couple of vibration training studios, I know it helps lose weight, I see it - my clients keep coming back, they tell other people, that is the single biggest reason we get new clients, word of mouth. If they did not get the benifits including losing weight they would not come back, they would not tell thier friends and family.
I know that your argument will be that it is anecdtotal however our clients decide for themselves.
Something is happening, and as soon as people like Dr Broadbent get serious about what & why & how then maybe they can catch up with something that is fast leaving them behind, and honestly, this is helping the health & well being of New Zealanders. People with all sorts of ailments are saying to us, in person how much vibration training is helping them. Why dont you come along to a studio and talk to them, listen to them, tell them that you dont believe what is happening to them??
I have licensed personal trainers , boxers , commonwealth athletes , high performance coaches AND the public using my units in 20 fully decked out studios. ( 3 units minimum )
Note: we do not consider one machines at the back of a hairdressers as a studio .
If the old saying
” you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all of the time ” is true , then whats going on ?I am quite sure I will be strung from the nearest lamp-post if it’s found out I was just pulling everyone leg.
- Mark
February 8th, 2007Wayne, and Lloyd, i think you guys are missing the point. Wayne, your comments “get serious about what & why & how” is exactly what i’m asking you to do! get some research out there…prove it, so that everyone can see what a great thing WBV is. or would you prefer to leave that up to people with some credentials?
- mike Hair
February 8th, 2007Sam lee
I Have not at this stage purchased any of Lloyds machines, Yes he did source some machines for me but not his ones.
And thanks for bring to light the studies on the power plate, just goes to prove they really are what Lloyd says they are, my wife has been on one and said it really is pathetic, nearly as bad as the Fit x model, Thearepy use only
I dont know how to say this again , without feeling like I am repeating myself .
But I will once more for your sake Mark.
There is no such thing as ” WBV ” or ” Vibration Training ” in RESEARCH terms.
They are generic marketing terms only.
Even if we had the best study in the world done , with the best people with the best credentials , and the outcome was %100 positive or negative.
It would only apply to that exact unit.Remember I left Power-Plate because they were caught attaching studies from one unit to another much cheaper model. So it does happen.
I am sorry but limited education on this subject is what companies like that rely on.
- Mark
February 11th, 2007Oh ok now you really have me baffled…so there is no such thing as Vibration training yet one company has this term in its ‘marketing’ …
…”Welcome to the website of VIBRA-TRAIN The Vibration Training Specialists. Simply put, Vibration training…” all a bit mickey mouse if you ask me! Re Dr. Sue Broadbents artical……
A few public statements made this week by
Jonathan Warren
President , New Zealand
Society of Physiotherapists.(1) We are not ” eagerly awaiting ” the results of any study done by Dr. Sue Broadbent.
(2) We are not even aware of any such study.
But the artical clearly states both as facts ?
- Wayne Campbell
February 11th, 2007Mark you really are being picky and childish
- mike Hair
February 11th, 2007Mark
all a bit mickey mouse if you ask me!
Sorry mark no one was asking you.
Get a real job aye To Mark…
Yes you are reading a marketing website. So the term ” Vibration Training ” would be on it ?
But all ” research ” will have a disclaimer making it clear that ” generic ” terms are not valid. And the study only applies to an exact model of and certain year.
If ANY changes are made to the design , no results can be carried forward.I find it slightly disturbing this needs further explaining . Considering your position as a health professional.
- Sean
February 11th, 2007Mark,
Please continue with your line of solid, fact-based, scientific questioning.
I’m shocked by the dodgey answers and put-downs when you pose BASIC questions to the self-proclaimed gurus of Vibration Training.
Your catching them with verbage directly from one of their sites was telling. As far as these guys always bashing “marketers”….I think maybe they “dost protest too much”….don’t ya think???
The truth willl set you free…Thanks for lending them a questioning hand Mark.
- mike Hair
February 11th, 2007Sean
You are right, the truth will set you free, as Lloyd has found out with all the people that told him he couldn’t build a machine.
He simply told them the truth, built it, and now he is soaring on the wings of an eagle.
Time has a way of letting the truth reveal itself.
Mike Mark..Sam … etc
As your intentions re your questions aimed at me are not related to protecting the public.
Or your outcry against Power-Plates behaviour would be public record by now right ?
( if I am wrong then please point us in the direction of your past posts concerning this )And you hide behind pysdonyms.
( Where as I am ” proud ” to put my name to any concerns I have )Then I think I have the perfect solution for all of us .
You dont use my machines.
And I wont ask you questions regarding ethics.
February 6th, 2007
Hmm Phillip, it wouldn’t be that you and Lloyd are the same person would it? I’ll post a link to the audio shortly so everyone can make up their own mind.
I’m pleased Lloyd to hear though that you stand by your statements in the interview ie that you don’t believe your own marketing.