Dr Sue Broadbent is a lecturer in exercise prescription at the Institute of Human Nutrition and Health in Wellington, New Zealand. She makes the following statements in New Zealand’s Sunday Star Times.
“There’s some evidence it may improve fitness and yield better results than normal resistance training with weights, but it’s not increasing cardiac fitness at all.
“In other words, it won’t prevent you having a heart attack and it’s not going to help you lose weight or increase your metabolic rate.” From the Sunday Star Times.
Broadbent is heading up reseach commissioned by NZ’s Accident Compensation Comission who funds the rehabiliation of injured athletes.
“There is anecdotal evidence that whole body vibration may reduce inflammation associated with soft tissue injury. But we don’t know if that’s true, or how it’s supposed to work.”
{ 101 comments… read them below or add one }
A Dr. Sue Broadbent here in N.Z. , a lecturer in exercise prescription at the Institute of Human Nutrition and Health , has made a definitive statement in a national newspaper
Vibration Training ….
“It’s not going to help you lose weight or increase your metabolic rate ”
With no tests completed by herself , on any units designed for weight loss , that is an unqualified remark . Which is highly unethical given her position.
I will be calling for her resignation or public retraction if proven wrong. As her words could stop those , who need it most , from seeking help.
The comments by Dr. Sue Broadbent that vibration training will not help you lose weight are totally unfounded.
This week in our local paper there is an artical from a local sports journalist stating how going 3 times a week to vibration training for 10 weeks has seen him loose 7kg and 5% body fat, that was with no other form of exercise. He states his arms and legs are more toned and energy levels are higer.He goes on to say for the first time in 2 years he is able to jog without suffering any patella tendonitis in his knee.
The proof is in the pudding Dr. Sue Broadbent!
The above mentioned article can be found at http://www.stuff.co.nz/3941476a6565.html
Please disregaurd the pose in the above article, i was out of the room at the time when the reporter took the shoot. This was simply a photo oppurtunity. The machine was unplugged at the time, and at no stage do we ever put people in this posture.
Glad to hear that Mike !!!
One good thing will come from Dr Sue Broadbent’s statement. I get to show the exercise industry in real time what kind of irresponible people are in charge of the publics health.
And why they shouldn’t be.
To make it perfectly clear Sue Broadbent’s public statement says,
” There’s some evidence it may improve fitness and yield better results than normal resistance training with weights , but it’s not increasing cardiac fitness at all ”
” In other words , it won’t prevent you having a heart attack and it’s not going to help you lose weight or increase your metabolic rate ”
Why the mention of cardiac fitness ?
It is not a promise I have seen yet , even from the really dodgy marketers .
That’s like saying ” but your car doesn’t fly ” as though it proves something ?????
Also considering numerous studies over the last 20 yrs have found resistance training to reduce risk of heart attacks , lower body-fat% and increase metabolism. In fact walking back and forth to your letter box is apparently better than nothing. I find the whole thing quite baffling.
Lloyd I know that vibration training does lose weight, I have experienced it myself
When I do a vibration training workout, My muscles get fatigued and I sweat. Could you eplain that for me Dr Broadbent? would that not be getting my metabilisiom going?
* For people who want to get back into sport and be injury free.
* Balancing up your body and being able to walk and jog again pain free.
* When people put on weight and are very heavy they want to loose weight but need help to get started.
* Strength and power for athletes
With Vibration training you dont need to run or jump but squat, lunge, dips, and press-up in beginner styles to use your large muscle groups to burn energy/fat.
Add any cardio work out with Vibration training and you will change your body forever.
Angela McKee is N.Z.s top high jumper and a Medal winner at the Commonwealth Games.
Has used multiple units over the last 18months.
Dr Sue Broadbent’s artical is titled
” REAL ATHLETES DON’T FEEL THOSE GOOD VIBRATIONS ”
So whats it like not to be considered a “real” athlete Angela ?
And did everybody pick up the comment ” Although getting fit while lying down… ”
Did Dr. Broadbent even take the time to read the manual that came with her Vibro-Gym ?
To much effort I suppose.
Yes I picked that up Lloyd, Makes you wonder what sort of research Dr Broadbent is doing and how effective the results will be.
It wasn’t a very balanced article maybe the paper has edited it to the point that it doesnt,t make any sense and seems to contradict itself.
Either that or as you point out, what sort of people have we got running/advising the public health system!!
She seems to have prejudged, and like a lot of propeller heads because they cant figure out why something is happening then they assume it cant be happening i.e weight loss.
Oh well I just keep vibration training and put my weight loss down to a figment of my imagination!!
hmm, Lloyd, I seem to remember you being interviewed on National Radio and admitting that you had no evidence to back up your studios weight loss claims and agreeing with the interviewer that any such claims were unethical?
I think the researcher is really just stating what current research backs up. Vibration Training offers many benefits but it is not a cardio workout
Sam where has anyone made the claim that it is a cardio workout?
Also, I go to a vibration studio and duiring my workout on static poses my muscles burn and I sweat, and I lose weight, I dont need research to tell me that
Phillip,
If you can point me to one study that shows that vibration training has a significant impact on a persons metabolic rate i will be convinced.
Sam
No one has been making claims that vibration training is a cardio workout (at least not anyone with any scruples!!).
But is everyone forgetting that research shows that muscle training also burns calories… even after you have stopped training? The statement that the only way to “lose weight” is to do cardio seems a little tunnel visioned.
I have been doing vibration training for about 4 months now and have lost about 8% body fat WITH NO OTHER EXCERCISE, and NO DIET. It’s not easy – I swear, I grunt, I groan, I complain all the way through and at the end of my workout I look like someone who has been dragged through a prickly bush the wrong way! And then 5 minutes later I feel fabulous!! Due to bad joints (which vibration training has also helped) I am unable to do almost any cardio – so I seem to be another of these people that have somehow miraculously ‘poofed’ their weight away….
I personally believe that anyone saying they don’t get any results from vibration training are usually coasting or doing the wrong thing on the wrong machines – I see a lot of people who go to the same studio I do and they do easy squats, easy lunges, etc… and as soon as it gets hard they say they’ve had enough. I think a lot of people who knock vibration training are forgetting that it isn’t a quick fix and it isn’t supposed to be easy. I have a friend that sometimes comes with me to my local studio (a couple of times a month) and then complains that she doesn’t get her results!!!
It’s simple – YOU GET OUT WHAT YOU PUT IN!!
What I agreed to was that sufficent atudies had not been done. Thanks to researchers like Dr. Broadbent not completing studies on weight loss when obtaining units.
The research the Dr, is doing are repeats of studies already done overseas. So a certain positive outcome is assured.
This is how academics not “real” researchers try to justify their existance. But unfortunatly also slows actual research down .
No claims for cardio have been made to date. So the statement was quite obviously designed to give her interview some credibility.
Their would be no other reason for it.
If those reading this blog find my above statement a little harsh. Thats ok.
I will not pull punches on this one .
Simple study to follow on BMR activity after Vibration Training. And the units where not complete.
http://www.pmlfilestore.com/vibratrain/pdfs/Metabolic-Study-Shows-Promise.pdf
I have been doing vibra train for a year now I was a size 18 in four months I went down to a size 14 I am now between size 12 & 14 (xmas mince pies) I am more toned love my boby shape much fitter & have more energy to burn and have notice a lot more health benifits cheers
Briar,
Did you use several different WBV machines or just one? To get those results how often and how long do you train? And how many postures must one use? Can one get those results with simple static postures @ 3 times a week, 10 minutes each?
Thanks.
Sam,
I ask you again, who is making the claim that vibration training is a cardio workout?
Regarding you question ” What studio has a significant impact on metabolic rate” I will repeat
I do vibration training – My muscles burn, I sweat, I lose body fat %, I tone.
Perhaps you can explain why that is happening?
And Sam, from what i have seen at the studio I go to, and from reading this and other websites I am not alone in the results I get from vibration traing
Wow! a bit of heated debate out there huh?! However surely Dr Broadbent deserves a billion times more respect than what she is being shown on this blog, after all How many years have you all spent studying Exercise prescription and it’s effects on the human body? take that and double it and i’m pretty sure you’ll fall well short. Can the petty arguments and let’s have a measured discussion guys and girls.
Go for the retraction Llyod can you put your money where your mouth is? I think you need to be pretty careful in how you bag somepeople it won’t take long till someone bites back.
I agree with Mark. I came to this website thinking it would be an intelligent discussion on vibration training but all it seems to be is a bunch of vibra train groupies slagging off the competition and anyone that disagrees with them.
Lloyd,
The BMR study you showed is interesting. BMR accounts for 60-70% of your calories expended. So an 18% increase for someone someone expending say 2,000 calories a day would be about 235 calorie increase in expenditure a day. Thats not bad but its a fair way off the 1,000 calories in 10 minutes i’ve seen in your adds. Can you explain the difference?
Laura
Mark..
Last time I checked respect is earnt by repeated actions , not a piece of paper on a wall.
I learnt this very young when a very respected mortician showed me his certification , and pointed out it never once did a body for him in the middle of the night.
Dr. Broadbent used her offical title and Massy Universities name , to make unproven definitive statements in a published artical.
This goes against the ethics code she was taught as part of her Doctorate.
A retraction will be the least of her problems.
I would also like to point out the Dr’s Exercise Prescription background has never covered Vibration Training/Therapy.
Mark…
I have put my money where my mouth is , funding , designing , building machines and promoting vibration training in an ethical fashion.
Where working for a certain less scupulous company could have made me millions and seen a monopoly in the market.
My goals are much further afield. Justifying my existence and reputation is something I personally have little time for.
You can all judge me later when I die. As apparently that’s what it takes to get noticed.
Maybe the Dr. was confusing us with these guys.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Exercise-equipment-weights/Exercise-machines/Crosstrainers/auction-87097764.htm
Note ..
Head on unit in picture , top , middle .
I dont even know what to say to this.
Wow, i can not believe what lengths some people are prepared to go too just to make a dollar. And it also increases cardio fitness!!! i’ll take 3 please.
(i wonder if it does the dishes???)
May be by putting her head on it she gets a face lift. LOL.
I could understand it if she was blonde.
So the research trial that was compleated to enable her to draw these conclusions is not an action in your mind? Again, a highly respected Doctorate holder in her field with many years of peer reviewed research entitles her to the respect we speak of. the “retraction the least of her worries” wow that sounds like a threat!
National radio interview with Lloyd Shaw and Dr Sue Broadbant October 06.
Interviewer “Lloyd, I mean it looks pretty conclusive and pretty convincing that the whole weight loss and cellulite offer or promise is somewhat tenuous. You would have to agree that there is no proof out there wouldn’t you?”
Lloyd Shaw: “100% the Doctors correct. One of the biggest problems we have had is marketers getting involved. I’ll give you a good example not naming one of the companies”
Interviewer: “But hold on Lloyd you’ve got weight loss and cellulite reduction on your site so I think its dangerous for you to be dissing the industry”
Lloyd Shaw: “No thats what I do…2 or 3 years of research made me realise that most of it is not true”
Lloyd,
With comments like that maybe you should be the first person “cleaned up” for dishonesty by your new organisation.
Sam
We were particularly discussing past units. Not mine. And the misleading advertising surrounding those machines.
Remember I was Power-Plates Product Manager. And had a much better understanding of this issue than the Dr.
And at the time the Dr. had not even started any studies. She was just reading old reports from old machines. Which I agreed where dubious at best. I myself had discarded them 12 months earlier.
Why she then sourced those same units is beyond me.
Sam Lee….
your comments seem to deliberatly leave out very relevant details of the converstation. Considering you must have a recording of the show , it would not be a stretch to believe you are in the industry.
This makes you look very dishonest. Better try next time.
Lloyd,
I’m sorry but thats simply not true. I’m happy to post a link to the audio file but its quite clear that the interviewer was referring to vibration training in general and in particular was asking you why you put weight loss on your website when you had agreed that it was not proven. (The interviewer sounded very surprised that you were admitting to making false claims).
Seems to me that its you who are being unethical and not the good Dr.
Sam
I stand by MY product . And my statements.
With my real name and occupation attached. For everybody to see.
I worked by myself , day after day , night after night , developing my units , matching programs and proving theory’s, with no help from those academics trying to justify their existance.
AND TIME HAS PROVEN ME RIGHT , AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO.
As RESULTS are not symantic. And can not be argued with for long.
It will be interesting to see if the Dr. comes onto this site , of her own free will , one day to admit her lack of vision.
So Sam Lee ..
if your comments are valid. Put up your real name and occupation so you can stand by them at a later date.
Also important to note..
Their is no such thing as
” Vibration Training ” this is a generic term coined only for the public.
No academic would ever dumb something so complicated down to a marketing term.
Dont hold your breath Lloyd, Sam Lee is being selective, didn’t or probably couldn’t answer my last questions to him. He has an agenda, which even I can see through.
Hmm Phillip, it wouldn’t be that you and Lloyd are the same person would it? I’ll post a link to the audio shortly so everyone can make up their own mind.
I’m pleased Lloyd to hear though that you stand by your statements in the interview ie that you don’t believe your own marketing.
Sam, still not answering my questions?? you make statements that when questioned you dont answer. Only continue on a selective path.
Nope not Lloyd, wished I had his knowledge though, and am working on the type of physigue he has acheived through vibration training.
1000′s of people in NZ alone are benefiting from vibration training including me, weight loss is part of it. I dont need research to tell me that. I know its happening. My muscles burn, I sweat, I tone As I asked before maybe you can tell me whats happening??
Oh and who are you really? – where are you from, I travel around regularly and can prove to you in person, I am not Lloyd. Would be interested to know who you are
Sam Lee…
all your concerns are valid. But I am here to fix them. Not make them worse.
But you seem to be very confused as to the Past vs the Future.
Hard for those not in the real industry to percieve I know. But please try anyway.
And Phillip..
don’t expect Sam Lee to front up in person , it wont happen . He appairs to playing the corperate game where accountability ( ie. putting your name to something ) is a dirty word.
But who knows , maybe he is a real person with honest intentions. You will soon know.
Also I welcome his baiting , as it gives me the opportunity to show the readers what I have had to put up with.
My story and exposure of stolen/bullshit research etc… was posted for all to see on my website.
Dated Nov 2005 ?
Lloyd , Phillip & everyone else claiming these fantastic amazing results, whilst i’m glad to hear there is a new innovation in the fitness industry, as with any industry things must be proven to be correct. Your anecdotal evidence is encouraging, but the public and any govt agency looking to subsidise any health benefitting activity need independant research and results. I’m interested to know which studies / research you have had done or are currently performing (by independant means) to back up the claims / anecdotal evidence being made. At the end of the day everything can only come down to what has been proven and what will be proven in the future and although some people seem to have a distaste for ‘academics’ the general public, myself included will continue to only trust these people as they have earnt the respect and are constantly monitored by their peers who are also highly methodical and acurate in their research methods. Instead of raving about how this Dr and that Dr are making false claims or misleading how about you produce some peer reviewed independant research to back up these claims? simple really stops the bickering which is very similar to that which i see at the childcare center my girlfriend works at
Mark,
You claim to be talking for the “general public” I would say that you are not talking for quite a lot of the general public. Why are numbers doing vibration training increasing? If it doesn’t work then sure, they wont come back, but its working for me and countless others. We are not all acedemcics, I dont know why it works, however, quite simply it works – thats enough for me to keep doing it, believing in it and defending it.
Mark…
please name me just one of your trusted academics that have ” built ” a machine that works.
As this is the ” peer ” I will be more than glad to confir with.
Note: I have also not asked for any subsidy or Govt. help with my project.
And it alarms me you consider body-fat% loss , increased BMR , increased strength , pain reduction etc…
As ” FANTASTIC ” and ” AMAZING ”
Thses results are something most Movement + Pressure programs should provide.
I pray you are not in charge of others motivation and health. With those self imposed limitations everyones doomed.
I must have missed the part where i implied you had asked for a subsidy Lloyd! The “fantastic and amazing results” i refer to was born straight from a website… http://www.vibratrain.co.nz
“to give you the kind of health you would normally achieve from spending hours in the gym, and it only takes 10 minutes!”
that’s a pretty “fantastic” claim and yet you seem so defensive when all i’m asking (& by the looks of it a number of other people)is to back these claims up with independant research. It’s great to hear that you’re putting together your own machines, the industry can only assume that because you are on the moral and ethical highground that you are also spending as much, if not more to have these machines independently tested and the claims proven by research?
And thanks for your last extremely positive and motivating comment, it further serves to prove that you can only revert to childish retorts when pushed to front up.
Mark & Sam, why dont you get your friend/work colleague Dr Broadbent to answer Lloyds Shaws comments about her article.
You guys aren’t doing a very good job.
Phillip (Lloyd),
You still don’t get it. Science is based on proven research. Lloyds argument is that because there is no study proving you can’t lose weight, the Dr is erroneous is saying there’s no proof. But thats how science works, you can’t claim something until there is proof. And as I said earlier, Lloyd agreed whole heartedly with the Dr on National Radio
Sam
It’s ok Phillip, Lloyd has already said that he will be getting a retraction out of Dr Broadbent (whom i’ve never meant) I look forward to seeing that, Perhaps someone should let the Dr. know what’s going on
Sam, why is that people feel muscle burn and sweat and lose weight during vibration training?? I may sound like a broken record but you never respond.
Oh of course its a figment of thier/our imagination – cant be happening because so far its beyond the academics to figure out why its happening.
Phillip (not Lloyd)
Incase we are forgetting guys the good DR made a definitive statement saying that WBV does not help you lose weight or increase your BMR. She has not done any studies to back this statement.
Also as we all know not all machines are equal, so studies done on a vibro-gym cannot be compared to a vibra-train model.
Phillip,
People may feel burn, they may sweat, they may lose weight. Thats great. But thats NOT scientific proof.
Look at the recent case where Sanitarium was convicted of false advertising for claiming that So Good milk lowered cholestrol. In that case there was a study showing So Good may lead to lower cholestrol in a group of middle aged men. But because Sanitarium didn’t state that the benefit was only scientifically proven in middle aged men they were criminally prosecuted under the medicinces act and fair trading act.
And what do you know – vibra train includes lowering cholestrol as a benefit on its website. That breaches the fair trading act and the medicines act.
There is evidence of of a lot of benefits of vibration training but weight loss and cholestrol lowering aren’t proven.
Remember as well the Dr is not advertising a benefit. Vibra Train is and needs the proof to back up its words.
I have only been in the health industry for just over 2 yrs. As I was busy in the mortuary working before that.
So I believe I have a good reason to be slightly behind in proving myself and my machines.
Vibration Therapy on the other hand has been available for research since 1912 ? By any academic that decided to prove or disprove any theory surrounding this technology.
Maybe you could ask the very relevant question of , why was it left up to a mortician to do the work ?
A note to all
Read carefully
I voluntarily come here to answer questions from those who seek information about Vibration Training/Therapy.
And will continue to do so.
But I will no longer respond to those people who obviously have other agendas or repeat questions already answered ( as per Kirk , this forum has an entire section on what you ask..).
I am sorry guys but you stick out like sore thumbs even to the less experienced.
It brings the tone of the entire website down. And will no longer be tolerated by myself. If someone else would like to answers them , be my guest.
…
Linda & Sam, thank you for the ultimate compliment saying that I am Lloyd. At least I know who he is and what he stands for.
You and a few others have suddenly appeared since Lloyd dared to question one of your “respected academics”
Lloyd, well done, most people will see this as a concerted attack becuase you rattled someones cage. Keep up the good work.
Winston Churchill
” You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life “.
Mike,
I’m not trying to attack Lloyd, just asking some very simple questions:
1. Show me the research proving 1,000 calories in 10 minutes.
2. Show me the research proving weight loss from vibration training alone.
3. Show me the research proving cholestrol loss from vibration training alone.
4. Yes/no – do the vibra train machines comply with the ISO vibration regulations for exposure limits to vibration. (You may wish to ask him this question yourself as I see from his website that you have purchased some of his machines.)
Note I am not asking whether vibration training increases strength, flexibility, bone mass density as there is compelling research evidence that it does this.
If Lloyd is big enough to attack a qualified researcher credibility and ethics then he needs the research to back up his allegations. I say the emperor has no clothes and fundamentally does not understand how vibration training works.
Hi Lloyd
I am sorry if I have ask a repeat question, I have just never seen the answer anywhere. Could you please direct me to it?
Thanks
Hi Mark what did you mean by this statement/threat
“Go for the retraction Llyod can you put your money where your mouth is? I think you need to be pretty careful in how you bag somepeople it wont take long till someone bites back.”
Dr Broadbent made a statement that vibration training wont lose weight a definitive statement. Wheres her research to back that up?
Kirk….
I can not simplify the difference any more with missing out major features that help define a units abilities.
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2006/10/the-difference-between-therapy-and-training-machines
Wayne,
Check out the following link to a study published in the International Journal of Sports Medicine. Their conclusion was: “24 weeks whole body vibration training did not reduce weight, total body fat or subcutaneous fat in previously untrained females”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14750005&dopt=Abstract
Hi Wayne, I’ll leave the threat making to Lloyd. My statement was that if Lloyd says he’s going to get a retraction then he should follow that up with actions. I agree the doctor did make that claim, without being privy to her research results i can’t answer your question but i can ask you where is the research to back up the claim that it does help you to lose weight??
Thank you Lloyd.
So Sam Lee ,
finally someone agree’s the Power-Plate doesnt work exactly the way it should. Thats why no one any longer deals with them.
It can be concluded then that any unit of lesser quality than a Power-Plate is a waste of time.
This is why I have such a hard line against any company dealing in low quality machines.
They KNOW they cant work. But will take your money anyway.
Not cricket.
Mark & Sam I own a couple of vibration training studios, I know it helps lose weight, I see it – my clients keep coming back, they tell other people, that is the single biggest reason we get new clients, word of mouth. If they did not get the benifits including losing weight they would not come back, they would not tell thier friends and family.
I know that your argument will be that it is anecdtotal however our clients decide for themselves.
Something is happening, and as soon as people like Dr Broadbent get serious about what & why & how then maybe they can catch up with something that is fast leaving them behind, and honestly, this is helping the health & well being of New Zealanders. People with all sorts of ailments are saying to us, in person how much vibration training is helping them. Why dont you come along to a studio and talk to them, listen to them, tell them that you dont believe what is happening to them??
I have licensed personal trainers , boxers , commonwealth athletes , high performance coaches AND the public using my units in 20 fully decked out studios. ( 3 units minimum )
Note: we do not consider one machines at the back of a hairdressers as a studio .
If the old saying
” you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all of the time ” is true , then whats going on ?
I am quite sure I will be strung from the nearest lamp-post if it’s found out I was just pulling everyone leg.
Wayne, and Lloyd, i think you guys are missing the point. Wayne, your comments “get serious about what & why & how” is exactly what i’m asking you to do! get some research out there…prove it, so that everyone can see what a great thing WBV is. or would you prefer to leave that up to people with some credentials?
Sam lee
I Have not at this stage purchased any of Lloyds machines, Yes he did source some machines for me but not his ones.
And thanks for bring to light the studies on the power plate, just goes to prove they really are what Lloyd says they are, my wife has been on one and said it really is pathetic, nearly as bad as the Fit x model, Thearepy use only
I dont know how to say this again , without feeling like I am repeating myself .
But I will once more for your sake Mark.
There is no such thing as ” WBV ” or ” Vibration Training ” in RESEARCH terms.
They are generic marketing terms only.
Even if we had the best study in the world done , with the best people with the best credentials , and the outcome was %100 positive or negative.
It would only apply to that exact unit.
Remember I left Power-Plate because they were caught attaching studies from one unit to another much cheaper model. So it does happen.
I am sorry but limited education on this subject is what companies like that rely on.
Oh ok now you really have me baffled…so there is no such thing as Vibration training yet one company has this term in its ‘marketing’ …
…”Welcome to the website of VIBRA-TRAIN The Vibration Training Specialists. Simply put, Vibration training…” all a bit mickey mouse if you ask me!
Re Dr. Sue Broadbents artical……
A few public statements made this week by
Jonathan Warren
President , New Zealand
Society of Physiotherapists.
(1) We are not ” eagerly awaiting ” the results of any study done by Dr. Sue Broadbent.
(2) We are not even aware of any such study.
But the artical clearly states both as facts ?
Mark you really are being picky and childish
Mark
all a bit mickey mouse if you ask me!
Sorry mark no one was asking you.
Get a real job aye
To Mark…
Yes you are reading a marketing website. So the term ” Vibration Training ” would be on it ?
But all ” research ” will have a disclaimer making it clear that ” generic ” terms are not valid. And the study only applies to an exact model of and certain year.
If ANY changes are made to the design , no results can be carried forward.
I find it slightly disturbing this needs further explaining . Considering your position as a health professional.
Mark,
Please continue with your line of solid, fact-based, scientific questioning.
I’m shocked by the dodgey answers and put-downs when you pose BASIC questions to the self-proclaimed gurus of Vibration Training.
Your catching them with verbage directly from one of their sites was telling. As far as these guys always bashing “marketers”….I think maybe they “dost protest too much”….don’t ya think???
The truth willl set you free…Thanks for lending them a questioning hand Mark.
Sean
You are right, the truth will set you free, as Lloyd has found out with all the people that told him he couldn’t build a machine.
He simply told them the truth, built it, and now he is soaring on the wings of an eagle.
Time has a way of letting the truth reveal itself.
Mike
Mark..Sam … etc
As your intentions re your questions aimed at me are not related to protecting the public.
Or your outcry against Power-Plates behaviour would be public record by now right ?
( if I am wrong then please point us in the direction of your past posts concerning this )
And you hide behind pysdonyms.
( Where as I am ” proud ” to put my name to any concerns I have )
Then I think I have the perfect solution for all of us .
You dont use my machines.
And I wont ask you questions regarding ethics.
Woodrow Wilson…
“If you want to make enemies ,try to change something”
I wonder if there is such a thing as ” machine envy “?
Lloyd Shaw these are not random attacks on you and your company. I would say they are the people who have alot to lose if you are proven right about some products and services offered.
I know of one person waiting for reports from a machine where they signed a 3 year lease . So they can take legal action. All after reading this site.
This will effect a whole franchise , it’s members and it’s customers as they use the same product.
A medical supply company here in N.Z. is waiting to serve papers on an importer of machines from Asia.
When the smoke has cleared. You will be able to relax and do your work.
Riki, I think you are right in what you are saying
As an owner of a 2 studios, I am not afraid of competition. Lets not think that no matter how good we are that we can monopolise the industry.
To further legimise this industry I welcome competition, it will keep us all on our toes and at the end of the day the public and the industry will benifit.
Lloyd Shaw is the only perosn in this industry to put himself, his philosophies and his knowledge out in the public domain. He is the only one trying to expose the make a dollar at any cost companies and individuals.
All of this makes him an easy target for people with hidden agendas and see Lloyd as a threat
For those legitimate operaters you who are sitting on fence. Dont think of Lloyd Shaw as a threat, see him as an ally to the industry. Lets hear your views.
Guys, ladies. you are all missing the point, Believe me i don’t see Lloyd as a threat, i think he’s done a great job of helping to make the public aware of this area of the fitness industry and certainly has heavily promoted himself “Lloyd Shaw, mortician by trade”
Riki, although i don’t have anything to lose by Llyod being proven right…(just how would that happen? oh that’s right RESEARCH, STUDIES,etc) i would like to see some studies done on his machines lets get some research out there on these claims, there must be thousands of people eagerly awaiting the 1000cal in 10 min theory to be proven. No hidden agenda’s here Wayne.
Lloyd i’m sorry if you felt my comments were aimed at you personally or that they disturbed you, i don’t waste time on personal attacks as it gets us no-where. I will eagerly await the independent research regarding your machines including the disclaimer you speak of.
Mark
Where are your questions/Comments about PowerPlates use of research and celebrity endorements that do not relate to thier machines? where are your questions/comments about the companies that bring in cheap models claiming that they can do everything that a properly built commercial model can do?
You are pointing everything at Lloyd Shaw, in some sort of personal vendetta, the only one to put his you know whats on the line – If you were genuinly concerned why not focus on the actual dodgy companies out there as well?
To all…
A disclaimer has been on our research site since day one.( So again Mark’s comments are not based on ANY research).
No tests to date can exactly measure the calorie burn rate after a weight training session. Even though it has been in the public domain for 20 odd years ? Only estimates are still given.
An Asian company that build BCA units does have a testing method for Vibration Training but will not share it yet.
All my figures are based on equations , that I build my machines to.
If you dont believe I can count Mark , dont get on my machines.
To Admin of Site…
I would like to add , I do not believe in the least that Mark is a health professional as he claims. His lack of knowledge surrounding the human body would totally discount that.
If you go back through his questions , they are simplistic enough that I believe only a complete lack of education in this field could account for these.
Am I alone in this assessment ?
I also do not look forward to explaining to Mark and his friends how a machines designed to measure energy burn rates during involuntary reflexes works.
As you still seem to be stuck on the basics.
You may have to come to the conclusion that this is just not your thing .
P.S. To all….
I use the title ” mortician ” as that is what I do for a profession. There is no title for my present position.
Very similar to the car industry where the first people to fix and work on cars where ” blacksmiths ” until the term ” mechanic ” was coined.
Anyone been to a powerplate studio? They are popping up everywhere
Hi Laura, what town are you in? Last time i was in Auckland powerplate was shutting down all over the place.
I have enjoyed reading this site for tips and testimonials about the use of vibration machines. I have used one that is the only available machine near where I live. I have felt many benefits from its regular use. I am looking for any information available and appreciate all constructive input. I am however disappointed at the bickering that seems to take a good exchange into a direction that is something I am most definitely not looking for and get nothing out of. It seems just when good questions are asked and I am anticipating good answers the discussion is bogged down with mud slinging. Is this a site for everyone, even us common people, interested in learning or has it become a forum for people directly involved in the industry.
It is aimed at people who want to learn. Anybody and everbody. Unfortunatly it was always going to be targeted by those who’s only motive for being in the industry is to make money, at any cost.
By definition these people fear the education of the public.
I think you will notice though , most have picked their fights and run away already .
So please keep visiting.
This topic leaves me with questions:
* Was the Massey university testing actually done? The results were due out end of March, 07, so that’s right now.
* Results of the testing relate only to the specific vibration platform used in the tests – a Vibrogym platform set to vibrate at between 30 and 50Hz moving up and down either 2mm or 5mm each cycle and to the particularity of the test ie what is being tested.
When I read about this test (a few months ago) it looked interesting until I read that the testing involved 30 volunteers deliberately inducing muscle injury by running downhill on a treadmill and then the treatment group will use WBV for 5 consecutive days of 15 minute sessions while the control group does nothing. Blood testing will be done to determine the degree of inflamation decrease over the 5 days.
I’ve wondered why consecutive days of WBV are being used when at least one days rest between sessions is generally recommended.
I also wondered why injury was being induced rather than using healthy people using the machine but the newspaper article seems to answer this..ACC are maybe funding this.
Why has Dr Broadbent made comments before the results are known and why comment on areas outside of the scope of the Massey uni tests.
Also when I was looking at aspects of WBV I found a mention of Massey uni (NZ) doing testing in 2003 using a Gallileo system 26 Hz, displacement = 10 mm, over 5 weeks, 3 x week, athletes to be retested on vertical jumps, sprints, and muscle power three days
after the last WBVT. I can’t find any results of this study so if anyone knows of it, I’m interested.
apologies..My name only appeared a “D” above
Firstly just from an ethical standpoint I hope the tests didnt go ahead.
(a) Not enough education by the testers on what to do or look for.
(b) Inducing already healthy athletes to such a test is dangerous. An extended downhill run could cause a career threatening injury.
NOTE: … the injuries would be varied depending on previous runners history and gate. Which will give random results.
Why not use an infrared scan to find similar injuries from Physio practices. This way matching pre-existing injuries could be monotored and helped.
I recieved a letter from Dr Broadbent’s boss. Things will be put right.
Hi Di
Try contacting Darryl Cochrane, Lecturer Sport Coaching, Dept of Management, Massey University, Palmerston North.
D.Cochrane@massey.ac.nz
I believe the research you refer to by Massey University was done on a Galileo sport and Gallileo top machine and was overseen by Darryl. The initial project was completed as a team research project in 2003 and in summary “with no differences in results”.
At the time of contacting Darryl Cochrane (April 28 2005), Darryl had just had another study accepted for publication in the British Journal of Sports Medicine – the results of which I was told were ‘exciting’ however were under embargo and could not be released to the public.
Hope this helps
Kate
The above referred to study appears in the BJSM in abstract at–
http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/39/11/860
You can register free to get a full text PDF–
This is a very limited study with only 3 interventions in total compared: cycling, WBV, and Control.
This is exactly what they have to say:
“What is already known–Whole body vibration (WBV) has proven to be effective in improving strength, power, and bone density. This novel training intervention is becoming popular for conditioning, rehabilitation, and general health. However, the acute effects of WBV on power, strength, and flexibility are still largely
untested.”
“What this study adds–This study confirms that power and flexibility increase after acute WBV exposure and that acute WBV may accelerate the warm up effect. Additionally, muscle groups less proportionally exposed to vibration do not exhibit physiological changes that potentiate muscular performance.”
Thanks for replies.
That tesing is, of course, quite dated now but I was interested.
The results are positive which is good to see. Even the comment that effects are largely untested reads positively unlike the flack that WBV has been getting in some writings lately – often from people who wont even try it for themselves.
Remember these famous words from Sal Marinello ….
IT CANT WORK , ITS BASED ON FLAWED SCIENCE SO STOP WASTING OUR TIME.
And the good Dr. Sue Broadbent…
Its not going to help you lose weight or increase your metabolic rate
Meanwhile …..
The Childrens Hospital in Westmead , Australia have installed a Vibration Platform to help curb obesity in adolescents who have developed insulin resistance , a common precursor to Type 2 Diabetes.
Do readers have any idea how much background research , solid work and combined ethics consent was needed for this to happen.
Note: This has happened despite people likes Sue and Sals best attempts to stop this technology from helping people.
I will still be seeking a public retraction from Dr. Broadbent as evidence mounts she mislead the public.
That’ll be terrific when you get a retraction. This kind of reminds me of years ago when I went to grad school to study under Dr. Mike Stone. At the time, there were maybe only 3 or 4 universities in the US with a strong anaerobic strength/power physiology emphasis and people like Stone as faculty that knew a heckuva lot about strength training from both scientific and practical perspectives. There still aren’t a whole lot of PhDs at universities that are “true experts” on both the science and practice of anaerobic exercise (i.e., strength/power training).
I recently had a Dept Chair at a university tell me about a professor at another university that he frequently recommends potential doctoral students to say this professor can “talk a little strength training” but wasn’t on my level.
And vibration as an exercise modality is so new to people. I think it’s even worse than the science of strength training was back when I went to grad school.
Time will tell I guess.