Which Vibration Machine?
Doc asks:
I am in the process of setting up a weight and life style disease management center. I would appreciate if anybody could help me make a choice out of Galileo and Turbosonic. Please explain why the machine you choose is better. This could mean a lot to me because I have never used any WBV machine. I am really counting on your opinion.
Written by Lloyd Shaw on November 15th, 2006
651 Comments
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Hey Lloyd,
I talked with Patrick tonight at fitvibe USA and I was impressed with his knowledge, integrity and helpfulness.
I expressed my interest in carrying a good quality lineal unit and also helping to educate the public.
Even though it would not benefit him, he recommended (for the price) the dkn (www.dkn-usa.com).
They are very well priced and he said they were a very good quality.
The middle unit is $2500, has frequency settings of 20-50 (increments of 5) and two amplitude settings 2mm and 4mm.
Just curious if you had any experience or feedback.
Bryant
The DKN series has been available in N.Z. since 2005. They in no way compare to the Fit-Vibe.
As for not making on the deal , maybe you should check on that , some Fit-Vibe salesmen have made deals to sell Chinese units , as the profits are much higher .
A salesperson representing Fit-Vibe in the U.S. recently spent considerable time talking a lady who wanted to set up a studio into buying Chinese units. They had specifically contacted this person to buy Fit-Vibes. They walked away from the deal.
Ask TC what he thinks of this behaviour and why he turned those deals down.
This DKN unit would be a closer comparison.
I would love to hear from TC.
I called the number on the Fit-vibe website and he answered. It was not that he said they are the same, he was merely referring me to a good unit at that price level.
Of course he recommended the fitvibe, but they have no units anywhere close in price.
Besides hypergravity, are there any quality lineal units under $4000? I know what to look for in frequency range and amplitude, but I want quality also.
I am actually happy with the Noblerex K1 for pivotal, but I want to alternate with a good lineal unit that is priced below $4000 that I can use myslf and distribute.
Thanks Again,
BryantYou will not get something that does the same job for that price. You are starting to go into the Therapy value units and asking for a workout model.
People must be carefull that marketers do not use half-truths like…
” but the amplitude and Fq are the same ”
….to fool you into thinking they do the same thing. That is like saying my car does the same job as your truck. It has wheels , it moves ?
We have a saying here in N.Z. Yea right !!!
- Jose Viegas
December 11th, 2007Bryant,
What made you change your mind about the lineal?
If I look at your website http://www.3daycleanse.com/, you are very explicit:Warning: Do NOT buy any Whole Body Vibration Machine
unless it meets the following 4 criteria1. First and Most Important, make sure the machine is a fulcrum based unit (means is has an oscillating movement like a see saw…see picture below left) and is not a vertical displacement unit (platform only goes up and down like a jack-hammer…below right). Almost all whole body vibration units on the market are vertical displacement.
….
I posted on another post, that I am going to change my website.
After talking to Lloyd and reading most of this forum, I understand the benefit of both.
Please understand I was mentored with folks in the Galileo-Vibraflex community. So I hope they will begin to open up also.
So, I WILL change my site as time permits. I mentioned this also in another post.
Thanks for keeping me on track… I have to move that task up on my priority list.
Bryant
Jose…
The fear based indoctrination in some companies is deep rooted. It will take some time for this to be over ridden . Some will move or be left behind.
- Jose Viegas
December 12th, 2007Fair enough Bryant,
If you do test the DKN, please keep me posted as I would like to know if you can get a good lineal for $3000/4000 as well.
Could the rep for Globus please send me their U.S. based details via e-mail.
Lloyd,
Click on my link (use Internet Explorer), go to dealer locator, click on North America, then United States, scroll to the end of the list, and there I am.Lloyd,
I am looking at the Hypergravity “Olympic Professional” vs Free Motion’s I.Tonic.Can you tell me your opinion of both
Thankss
Lloyd,
In addition to my last email, I am interested in those 2 companies, Free Motion’s I.Toinc and Hypergravity’s Olympic Professional. I am interested because I have physical therpay patients and athletes including Olympians that I train in Colorado. I have an I.Tonic demo at trhe moment and want to get some vobrational machines into my facilities. We are also going to be treating a cancer population as well and invite any comments that you may have in addition to your advise regarding which machine is better, their pros and cons.
Thank you for your inputDavid
The Hypergravity, for its range and stability.
I have used the I.Tonic and it, in my opinion, falls neither into therapy or training. But it does look nice.
Lloyd,
I am looking at the Hypergravity “Olympic Professional” vs The Power Plate. You felt the hypergravity was better than the I-Tonic. But what about the Power Plate. My concern are the directions of vibrations between these 2 units.Can you tell me your opinion of both
Thanks
The Hypergravity units are highly functional and controlled . Covers therapy into training modes. They cover all the bases except maybe the “sexy look” that is wanted sometimes.
The PowerPlate is uncontrolled and lacks physics values and function on a number of levels. Basically a big therapy pad. But it does look good.
Lloyd,
My last question on the hypergravity machines - noise. The I-Tonic is quiet. The Pneumax out of CA is very loud. How loud or quiet is Hypergravity’s units compared to I-Tonic and Power Plate?
ThanksDavid
Spectrum Rehab and WellnessThe Hypergravity in high mode is a bit louder than the PowerPlate. But remember this is usually a direct result of the fact it is about 3 times more powerfull.
- Jennifer
January 29th, 2008I have recently found out about this technology and am very interested, but with all these machine names - a bit confused. What is your knowledge base with regard to the machine that Peter Ragnar is promoting, the Noblerex K1 for $2900? Just curious.
thanks so much
The Noblerex K1 is a mid-range Pivotal unit.
Could be used as a home unit or light professional use.
I do not trust their marketing though. Full of half-truths.
Lloyd,
The K-1 IS a good unit. I have personally evaluated and experienced the vibratrim/vibraslim, galileo/vibraflex and two other pivotals (aesthetic md has a couple others for demonstration).
I have had nothing but good feedback in selling almost 40 now personally. My friend Peter Ragnar, a world renowned martial artist has sold even more with even more great feedback.
And personally. using it I have healed my back problems and put on about 6 pounds of muscle.
As far as pivotals go in the price range of $3000 or less, this is the best I have experienced. Put side by side to the cheaper models there is no comparison.
I prefer pivotals to all the lineals I have experienced (at least so far yours not included). I think it is important for the cosumer to try out several models (if possible) and see what feels best. For me its the K1, for someone else it may be hypergravity.
Regardless of what aesthetic md, maha usa and the direct source in korea say that sounds like half truths, the unit flat out performs. And I am trying to get them to change some things to make the specs more accurate…ie, freq 30-60 hz… i have tested it to be 7-24 hz using a motion detector..its nice having a background in physics..lol… I have also tested the amplitude to be roughly 13 mm from peak to valley (min to max).
But the proof is in the pudding. It flat out works and I have over 20 testimonials to confirm.
But I agree Lloyd, they need to make a few changes in their brochure (as do I with my website…and i am building a new one right now…)
bryant
- Matty
February 2nd, 2008Hi Bryant, I have just looked over your website, do you agree with these sections…..
“The K-1 Vibration Exercise Machine Burns Fat and tones and tightens skin. It has been proven to reduce cellulite, increase the metabolism and muscle tone.
… so you will lose weight (if needed), sculpt and tone, flatten your stomach and look and feel younger.The Noblerex K1 Increases Human Growth Hormone (HGH) output by up to 361%.
… So You’ll Sleep Better, Look and feel younger and have a supercharged sex driveThe K-1 Exercise Machine Increases your muscle strength up to 50% in as little as three weeks!
… so you’ll be able to remain strong and fit well, well into your golden years without any need for walkers, canes or wheelchairs (if you are still young, you’ll get stronger).The K-1 Whole Body Vibration Machine Has Been Research Proven to Increase Bone Density.
… so you’ll no longer have to live in fear of developing osteoporosis and sucumbing to brittle and easily broken bones (hip fractures are the #1 reason people end up in nursing homes… prevention begins NOW)The K-1 Whole Body Vibration Increases flexibility, strenghtens joints, tendons and ligaments and helps to relieve back pain and sore aching joints
… so you can live life, love life and have the freedom of a body that can do whatever it wants (without pain)The Noblerex K1 Vibrational Therapy elevates your serotonin and neutrophine levels
… so you’ll be in a good mood more often and have a great sense of physical and emotional well being (without medication). Also you will think more clearly.The Noblerex K-1 Provides 100 minutes of exercise in only 10 minutes.
… so you can have more time and energy to enjoy your family, friends and work more productively”OR
“There are so many benefits to using the K-1 ; I can’t even begin to tell you all of them. This vibration technology used by individuals for a mere 10 minutes 3 times a week, lost more fat because of the increase in the metabolic rate than those who did an hour of aerobics 3 times a week.”
?
Hi Matty,
I am in the process of changing my content a little… still a work in progress, but yes I do agree with the benefits in general as many have been my direct experience and that of my customers (i have sold around 50 machines now personally. If anyone points the finger at me for using this research then I think over 90% of the websites selling vibration platforms would be guilty of using research done on other machines also. You will see these studies all over the wbv sites.
So your question is a valid one and my guess is if all the vibration training websites selling machines could ONLY publish research on their sites done on THEIR machine only in a off site university peer reviewed setting using double or triple blind studies, I think we would see most websites without ANY research posted at all.
It takes a lot of time and huge amounts of money to fund research studies. Learning from Yosef johnson in the clinic in Muskegon (check my site for the video interview), he has good anticdotal evidence to support bone density, neuropathy, incontinence athletic performance, recovery from joint-back problems and geriatric improvements on the Galileo 2000. The Noblerex k1 is the closest machine I have found in frequency and amplitude to the Galileo for around $3000.
The machine operates at a similar frequency and amplitude to the galileo (7-25 hz approx and 13 mm). And bare in mind that a fair amount of the research was done using the earlier prototypes of the Galileo or similar oscillating platforms.
So thanks for your feedback, and again YES I think these benefits apply, but perhaps not in the exact percentages and amounts done in the original research. Being a scientist, I would bet if these same experiments were done on the same original machines, you would still see different results there also.
So its not a perfect world and I am left with not saying anything at all or using my experience, my customers experience, Yosef’s case studies done at a clinic and borrowing some of the research that validates what i have seen directly.
Bryant
- Anna
February 3rd, 2008Lloyd,
Which unit is better for training,
VibroGym Pro or BodyShaker Pro.
Would you know the G Force for either ?
anna 6.24g for the Vibro-Gym
Body-Shaker , sorry dont know.
Cant really compare units. The Body-Shaker has a wider range of FQs but the amplitude is basically set. The Vibro-Gym is lighter but has the 2mm/4mm range in amplitude.
My personal preference was the Body-Shaker when I had the choice of both.
- Anna
February 3rd, 2008Lloyd,
What does ‘amplitude basically set’ mean. Which machine delivers a harder workhout ?
anna The amplitude on the Body-Shaker changes slightly with the speed. Graded through from 30-50 in small steps of about 2.5 hz.
But the Vibro-Gym has a system that actually splits the weights to halve the amplitude from 4mm to 2mm. But only has the choice 30 , 35 , 40 , 50 hz set speed.
The machines are similar in feel at the hardest setting.
- Matty
February 4th, 2008Bryant,
I agree with you that a lot of companies use the research of other machines to promote their own but it is usually done like this….
“Vibration Exercise Burns Fat and tones and tightens skin. It has been proven to reduce cellulite, increase the metabolism and muscle tone.”
Not like as you have done here…
“The K-1 Vibration Exercise Machine Burns Fat and tones and tightens skin. It has been proven to reduce cellulite, increase the metabolism and muscle tone.”
I am not trying to attack you, but I found that quite dodgy, and perhaps a suggestion would be to revise them.
Besides, I assume the reserach you are referring to is from the galileo? Where is the proof of fat burning and cellulite reduction?
Could you point out to me what studies you are basing this on.
Also this comment…
“There are so many benefits to using the K-1 ; I can’t even begin to tell you all of them. This vibration technology used by individuals for a mere 10 minutes 3 times a week, lost more fat because of the increase in the metabolic rate than those who did an hour of aerobics 3 times a week.”Stood out as dodgy too, I find it hard to believe. What do you base this statement on?
Matty…
Alot of companies use the best results from Pivotal and Lineal units and just attach it to whatever they are selling. With no disclaimer.
And yes they do know it is dodgy and misleading. But this is how they operate.
As for the metabolic rate and fat loss statement , cardio often fails to raise the BMR or burn fat in alot of people. So any form of resistance training would come out on top.
- Anna
February 4th, 2008Lloyd,
Would you class Globus Physioplate Gold / Globus Fit as therapy or training machines :
gold & fit: V230/115 v, consumption 0,4 W, 15/70 Hz, 2/4mm Amp, step variation 1 Hz, variable duration sec 1-250, force G 0,9/7,3
(2) How would you compare the 2 above to Vibrogym Pro, BodyShaker Pro and Hypergravity Olympic.
regards,
Anna The Globus range seems to cover both Therapy and Training.
Not having used a Globus product myself I can only go on another experienced user who stated ” it feels like the Fit-Vibe”.
This would suggest it is slightly lighter in feeling than the other units you mention.
Anna ….
No matter what brand you look at , make sure it has back up in the country it will be used in. As in my articles I point out there are a number of things that make a model the best choice.
I did not even know Globus has an active rep in Australia.
- Anna
February 6th, 2008Lloyd,
Thank you for your comments, your feedback and mostly your patience with me regarding comparisons of the various popular brand names of vibrating machines. There is a handful of machines which claim to be professional and will do the job, however, there does not appear to be anybody other than your company Vibra-train who manufacturers commercial standard training machines, not therapy machines, who will sell to public. For myself it’s disappointing because the other so called professional machines are expensive anyway, and my phylosophy has always been, if you’re going to spend that much money, invest in the best in the best, if you have the money. I am prepared to pay for premium product yet cannot access one because I cannot find a compnay who manufacturers machines to your standard with the same training capacity as Vibra-train and I know Vibra-train will not sell to public.
This makes me feel like I am settling for second best, which is not a good feeling especially when they’re asking $10,000 plus, consequently I am postponing my decision choosing a popular brand because I am hoping someone out there will tell me a company I can contact to purchase a commercial standard training machine such as the Vibra-train.regards,
Anna - Gail
February 6th, 2008I totally agree with Anna. It’s hard to choose a machine when they are all second rate compared to Vibra-train, but I did settle for one because I love the technology and maybe when it’s time to upgrade in a few years Lloyd will have found a way to help us all.
- Anna
February 6th, 2008Hi Gail,
Thanks for your comments. Just out of curiosity, which brand did you settle on ?regards,
Anna Sorry , I know it is fraustrating , but I take the responsability of producing machines of this quality and power very seriously and fully understand that without proper training and regulation these machines can be equally as harmfull as helpfull.
So I attached them to a business model as it allows me to put legal resrictions in place that otherwise would be impossable to police. I know it limits my immediate wealth but it is a price I am willing to pay so I can always be proud of our standards. And the precident I believe we are setting for the entire industry + trying to breed a culture of accountability is I believe what we all need to be a part of something that has a chance to tackle such issues as obesity head on.
It can never be just a sale.
You may want to note , that if I purely retailed the units , no-one could ever afford them without a loan. If they did take a loan the repayments would force up the user price to such a point where it would be out of reach for the most needy.
Vibra-Trains profits actually subsidise the R&D and production of machines at present .
I predict Vibra-Train will become one of the largest fitness chains in the world , where I will be in a position to truly help others .
- Anna
February 6th, 2008Lloyd,
Is there a way I can purchase a second hand Vibra-train machine from an existing studio or yourself. I just cannot settle on the idea that I cannot purchase a machine equal to the quality, durability, training capacity that of Vibra-train.
If I lived in New Zealand, I would be a regular visitor of your studios, however, I live in Albury NSW and the vibration machines haven’t made their way to Albury, possibly will not for a long time. I therefore wish to buy one, not just any one, I want the best there is and reading various comments yours appears to be the best. Can you please help me out someway, somehow. Do you plan to sell to public in the near future ? Do you have stock clearances ? Do your studios have clearances of older stock ?
I just know if I were to settle for one of those popular European/American brands we’ve spoken about, I would never be happy knowing there is better out there. The irony is that I don’t mind spending the money, on quality, and by that I don’t mean the popular brands which are out there for anyone to purchase, which I am sure are quality but not in the same category as the Vibra-train.
anna Anna…
Sorry, Vibra-Train units are not allowed to be sold outside the licensed business model , all owners sigh legal contracts to stipulate this, so you will never see them up for sale anywhere. This offers everyone protection in a number of ways.
(1) The consumer knows that not just anyone is operating my product and they have been trained.
(2) I can guarantee the matching programs are followed ( There is no other way to monitor this).
(3) Studio owners know I will not be selling units to anyone without a licenced studio (with each studio having a minimum of 3 machines).
(4) If anyone is offered a unit they know its a fake. (This is already getting around and con artists are being reported very quickly.)
(5) I own the trademark so can protect my owners.
(6) I will know where every single unit is.
You may want to note I designed my machines to last the lifetime of my business , and if they do decide to downsize a unit for some reason, we buy it back.
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December 8th, 2007
Mike -
Appreciate the information, will look into that unit a little more. Again thanks!