Which Vibration Machine?
Doc asks:
I am in the process of setting up a weight and life style disease management center. I would appreciate if anybody could help me make a choice out of Galileo and Turbosonic. Please explain why the machine you choose is better. This could mean a lot to me because I have never used any WBV machine. I am really counting on your opinion.
Written by Lloyd Shaw on November 15th, 2006
651 Comments
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- Jason
February 26th, 2007Hallo Lloyd
You rated the following machines as capable for Therapy and Training. But which one of these you can rate as the most commercial and why ?Fit-Vibe…………..Therapy / Training
Hypergravity……….Therapy / Training
Vibmax…………….Therapy / Training
Vibro-Gym………….Therapy / Training
Body-Shaker….Therapy/Training Hypergravity for the U.S. ( designed for 115V , very reliable )
Fit-Vibe or Vibro-Gym for Europe. ( good support )
- Jason
February 26th, 2007Lloyd
Can the Hypergravity work as reliable at 220 V by using an adapter ?
And Hypergravity recently added a new product on their site . The Vibration Transfer Rails . They claim that a hypergravity machine if working with this product the upper body training is more effective .Can you please tell me your opinion ?
Thanks All my Vibra-Train units have Vibrating handlebars. They have been out for over 12 months.
And yes to the 220v supply issue.
- Kris
February 27th, 2007How effective are the handle bars, Lloyd, for upper arm, upper body toning?
Very effective if designed and used properly. It is all I have used on my upper body for over a year.
- jenny p
March 25th, 2007Hi Lloyd,
In your opinion can the home hypergravity machine be used for both therapy and training? i am not sure if in your chart you were rating all of their models as therapy/training or their more expensive models.
Thank You!
Jenny Hi, just wondering if the BioVibe is a good choice for domestic use - weightloss etc.
In my opinion this unit would fall into “Home Therapy” Very good for pain reduction and circulation etc..
Some weight loss may result from use but probably not for long.
VibePlate has platforms with different sizes to meet your needs. It will accomplish anything others will do, and is much less expensive, built to last forever.
- mike Hair
May 17th, 2007Sorry Randy incase you hav’nt picked up on it already, Marketers are not welcome on this site if they are naming a product.
Randy…
If you are not smart enough to read the tone of a website. I wouldnt buy anything off you.- Paul Weinberg
May 29th, 2007Does anyone know anything about the products from Pineapple WBV products (http://www.pineapple.la/). They too claim that their motion is purely lineal.
I am very lean and fit but a bit tight with lots of joint aches; I am trying to choose the right unit.
To Paul Weinberg,
Pineapple is distributing WBV devices made by Taiwan manufacturer, Body Green.
I do not have actual experience with the devices of Body Green. However, by reading their story and specification in Body Green’s website, I have the following questions:
1) Body Green claim their linkage system can produce pure vertical vibration; and more durable than devices with motor system. When I look at the illustration of their linkage system, I see a number of joints in their mechanism where bolts are applied I suppose. I can imagine there could be metal fatigue or wear at the joints after rapidly running for months or a year. Body Green comment motor system is low quality which is NOT TRUE. If a manufacturer uses high quality occillators, they are very reliable and durable. Perhaps Body Green know only Taiwanese or Asian occillators.
2) Most Body Green devices work below 20 Hz. In this industry, we all know vibration at below 20 Hz is resonance frequency zone to internal organs which should be avoid. For this reason, I must query what people are in Body Green’s R&D team, purely mechanics and electronics? To design and build a decent healthcare device, you should have people who knows physiology and biomechanic in the R&D.
3) I also browse the “exercise examples” in Body Green’s website, they have a section called “Partner Postures”. I can only say Body Green is very “creative” and you will laugh at some of their suggested postures!!!!!
4) Paying USD6,250.00 (the model #AV1a) for a Taiwan-made device? I’ll turn and walk away!
Paul, when you choose a healthcare & fitness device, you have to look at the specification of the device and also the background of the supplier especially the manufacturer.
TC
- Nick Morris
May 29th, 2007TC,
As an Asian, you certainly are disparaging on your fellow kin. Please don’t espouse such general thoughts when you haven’t even experienced the technology, and display such ignorance with your racist conotation of craftsmanship and quality. I will be delighted to organise for you to visit the factory, where you can experience the quality of craftsmanship, and then make coherant comment. (you can e-mail me directly at nickolachi@gmail.com - and arrange your trip, as it’s only a short flight for you from HK)
The product is made with great care and craft. (It won a best product award at the recent TAISPO show.) The factory location is designed and selected to ensure a competitive price is provided to develop opportunities for a range of socio-economic groups to enjoy the experience of WBV, in a safe and comfortable manner.
Further to that, the main current drive of the company is to create centers to allow an even greater accessiblity to WBV with additional expertise and education.
As a founder of the company, and an individual who has travelled several times around the world looking to create the best business mix, your lack of informed opinion is dangerous. As a company we have a very grand vision for the future, and have very carefully seeded all elements to allow for dynamic growth when appropriate and with a quality product that will be very attractive to a large population group.
Our vision for growth and development of WBV is far greater than most in the current WBV industry envision, and to achieve that the product needs to be 100% safe, comfortable, functional, reliable.The product is currently in 9 Universities undergoing various research articles. (and I am very welcome to all Universities and Research groups to undertake study and ideally cross-reference against other units. - please e-mail me directly nickolachi@gmail.com)
A number of these are direct comparisons with existing WBV technologies - something that seems to be severely lacking in today’s science community. Is this a lack of confidence in their product, or burying heads in the sand, as to what are the optimum frequencies and amplitude’s plus mechanics and materials for optimum results.Your comments on frequencies below 20Hz are ignorant
a.) Here is an example of the work we are doing
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/yxo6xp2csnqi/?attid=0.1&disp=inline&view=att&th=1117a8d733555340
b.) I look forward to enlightening you further.Have a fabulous day
N. - Di
May 29th, 2007Hi Nick
That last link is to a gmail page so it doesn’t work.
I am interested to know more about lineal machines having frequencies below,say, 30hz as I’ve read that it’s important not to match the natural resonance frequencies of some body parts. Your platforms look different to any that I’ve seen so would you please explain more about them and how you use lower frequencies safely..thanks
Are you calling me ignorant Nick ? As I have been concerned about lowerFq/uncalibrated units for some time as my past work over the years has shown. And I still stand by it.
And T.C.s scepticism about Asian built units is based on experience. To date no unit of value has been produced in Asia that would or could help us in our plans to fight obesity. Thats about 50 machines that do not do as they claim. To much for those serious about the industry to ignore.
So your choice to produce units in Asia will unfortunatly come with a negative price attached .
No Goodwill.
To Nick Morris,
I would not hide my prejudice against Asian products especially in healthcare and rehabilitaiton industry. It is due to my personal experience with Taiwanese, Korean, Japanese and Chinese manufacturers in last 20 years. Most products in these categories from these countries are either poorly designed or replicas (copies from others’ innovative design). Even worse is the attitude of many Asian companies, they are more interested in quick profit and turnover instead of quality and long term relation.
I admit there are always exceptions. There must be decent Asian manufacturers. And there are also poor products from the West. However, for myself, I would avoid to work with Asian manufacturers, previous experience were just unpleasant. I AM NOT TELLING anyone to follow me. I only speak for myself, my experience and my own condition.
If you really mean how your company is managed and how your products are designed and manufactured, you would earn my respect. At this stage, I remain observation.
When I made my comment on Body Green’s devices, I did try to be fair therefore I stated from the beginning that my comments were made by reading product specifications and information from Body Green’s website.
One thing I surely do not agree with you is your comment on “motor system”. In your website, you described “motor system” high wear and low durability; which is NOT TRUE! Since you can tell I am from Hong Kong, you have probably checked out my website and learnt that we are using FITVIBE. According to my information, FITVIBE’s oscillators have failure ratio of almost zero since their launch globally. Your comment ahout loading capacity of “motor system” at 120 kg. is also INCORRECT. FITVIBE has max. loading capacity of 250 kg., some other vibration devices of “motor system” may have similar or even higher loading capacity. When you publish a comparison, you should reflect all the fact not partial which may mislead readers’ judgement. As I understand, a well built oscillator can run and last for many many years.
I made a comment on your linkage system. If you do not agree or if I am wrong, you are very welcome to provide explanation. My knowledge is limited and I am opened to learn.
Concerning my other comments in point #2, #3 and #4, they remain.
TC
- Wayne Campbell
May 30th, 2007Nick, your post is nothing but a sales pitch that at no stage attempts to address TC’s observations and concerns. Maybe TC is wrong about your product, but nothing in your response shows me that
- Nick Morris
May 30th, 2007Recent pilot study:
Effect of Whole Body Vibration on Muscle Tone and Hardness of Lower Extremity in the Patients with Spinal Cord InjuryYu-kuang Wu, Kwan-Hwa Lin, Chang-Yi Yen, Hsing-Kun Wang
School and Graduate Institute of Physical Therapy, College of Medicine, National Taiwan University, TaipeiBackground & Purpose: Patients with spinal cord injury (SPI) usually have the problem of spasticity, which may change the viscoelastic property of muscles to become much harder. Recently, whole body vibration is reported to have the effect of muscle relaxation in healthy groups. Therefore, the purpose of this study was to investigate whether whole body vibration can reduce the muscle tone and hardness in SCI patients. Methods: Ten complete or incomplete SCI patients (age 48±12yrs) from National Taiwan University Hospital with increased muscle tone (MAS>1) were recruited and divided randomly into 2 groups: very low frequency (5 Hz) group I and low frequency (10Hz) group II. The vibrator (Bodygreen AV-001) provided 10 minutes vertical sinusoidal vibration and the amplitude of 3.6mm during the intervention was kept the same in both groups. Before and after the vibration electrical stimulation instrument (CADWELL Sierra II) was used to measure the H-reflex of sural nerve to represent muscle tone and myotenometer (Neurogenic Technologies Inc.) was to quantify the muscle hardness of right medial and lateral gastrocnemius (MG and LG, respectively). All the data were analyzed by SPSS with Wilcoxon Signed Ranks Test. Results: After the whole body vibration, muscle hardness of LG decreased (p
- Nick Morris
May 30th, 2007Some additional recent published articles regarding lower frequencies
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006 Jul;38(7):1317-28.
Acute effects of a vibration-like stimulus during knee extension exercise.
Mileva KN, Naleem AA, Biswas SK, Marwood S, Bowtell JL.
Sport and Exercise Research Centre, Academy of Sport, Physical Activity and Well-being, FESBE, London South Bank University, London, United Kingdom. milevakn@lsbu.ac.uk
PURPOSE: This study was conducted to test whether a low-frequency vibration-like stimulus (rapid variable resistance) applied during a single session of knee extension exercise would alter muscle performance. METHODS: Torque, knee joint angle, EMG activity of rectus femoris (RF) and vastus lateralis (VL) muscles, and VL muscle oxygenation status (near-infrared spectroscopy) were recorded during metronome-guided knee extension exercise. Nine healthy adults completed four trials exercising at contraction intensities of 35% (L) or 70% (H) of one-repetition maximum (1RM) in control (no vibration, Vb-) or vibrated condition (superimposed 10-Hz vibration-like stimulus, Vb+). Maximum voluntary contraction and 1RM were tested pre- and postexercise. RESULTS: During 1RM tests, muscle dynamic strength (P=0.02) and power (P=0.05) were significantly higher during vibrated rather than nonvibrated trials, and strength was significantly higher post- than preexercise (P=0.002), except during LVb- trial. Median spectral frequency of VL and RF EMG activity was significantly higher during postexercise than preexercise 1RM test in the vibration trials but unchanged in the control trials (P Nick Morris ,
Please do not tell me you are mixing up ” one off ” limited tests , looking for a singular effect, with long term exposue of Vibration to the WHOLE body.
Thats why they call it “WHOLE BODY VIBRATION”. Not “LOCALIZED BODY PART VIBRATION”.
If you think for a minite that vibration does not have an impact on other more delicate areas you are either delusional or have alterior motives for turning a blind eye to the possable negative outcomes.
Remember you are asking people to come in contact with this technology on a “regular” basis.
Think about this , a regular run can activate a good cardio pattern. Causing stimulation to the cardiac cells with the outcome a stronger heart.
The same run can destroy your knees.Note: The tests you refer too are repeats of other tests I have already seen years ago. And they did not shift the industry forward.
- Nick Morris
May 30th, 2007Thank-you Lloyd,
Merely espousing that literature does exist with lower frequencies vibration study.
Like you, the business model I am involved in weighs heavily on the outreach of centers. By its very definition the continued and long-term health of all clients is the utmost priority. I am fully eyes wide open to the potential effect of WBV, and am fully committed to providing a safe, comfortable, efficient and highly effective opportunity to allow people to enhance their lifestyle.
I expect the same of you.The above studies merely portray that investigation has taken place in lower frequency research, of which we have carried this further forward with studies that extend into the Whole Body.
What are your current research projects?
I am in the 3rd year of a large scale program of general safety practices.
And 8 months into a local study in a medical centre where 80% of users are ACC cases.
Revised safety margins for regular users and a new contra-indication list for particular types of units is my aim.
A number of national level sports teams and athletes , both junior and senior are doing active studies.
I will not involve myself with…. Grant Money + Repeats of Already Positive Tests = Maketing Material .
It was put to me , I turned them down.
- Di
May 31st, 2007Lloyd, I hope you wont mind if I explain your use of the abbreviation “ACC”
[quote]: And 8 months into a local study in a medical centre where 80% of users are ACC cases. [end quote]
ACC is Accident Compensation Corporation … our country’s nationwide no-fault personal accident insurer, so the participants in this study are recovering from accidents of various kinds.
To Nick Morris,
I tried to know you better by tracing your previous comments under this topic. I would like to believe you are a serious player in this industry. Although your devices are manufactured in Taiwan, you do not fall into the group of Asian manufacturers that I despise.
Allow me to quote some of your previous comments on January 8, 2007 (page 5) as below:
* Frequency being decisive factor.
* Always set equation of my devices to ensure g-force below 2G (approx. to strong walking or light jogging).
* My machines and programs at low frequency are based on Chinese Medicine and Quantum Physics.I agree with you, Frequency is one of key factors in achieving good result in WBV, the others are Amplitude, Duration and Posture.
Your idea of using stimulus below 2G is very different to the principle of “Classic WBV”. Our believe is to apply hyper-gravity load to stimulate the neuro-musculo-skeletal system to respond, to counter the stimulation. This is also the same principle in conventional physical exercises, the only difference between Conventional Training and WBV is applying the load to our body from different direction. Your idea does not fit into this principle.
By learning concept of your design is based on Chinese Medicine, I think we are having a case of “apple and orange” here. You are not practicing “Classic WBV” as many of us do. Your technique and ours should not be put together for comparison.
When you suggest low frequency is good and safe, you omit to mention you apply light load before 2G. I suppose the impact is very light and too weak to stimulate the internal organs even though the vibration is within resonance frequency zone. Low frequency in many of our systems is potential risk because we are creating hyper-gravity load which can go up to double-digit g-force. However, would your technique be too weak for muscle training? I believe this would be a question from us who practice “Classic WBV”. I do not know how you mix and match this Western Technology – “Vibration Training” with “Chinese Medicine” theory, therefore I would not draw any conclusion whether your idea, your devices work or not. One thing for sure is that you are using a different theory and you need to explain to the public how it works, how the Chinese Medicine theory applies.
I would suggest you to give your technique a new term because if you refer your technique as “Whole Body Vibration” and you use a different principle from the main stream of WBV, you would only cause confusion and it is no good to both sides.
At last, although I do not want to challenge your theory at this stage, I find big conflict between your comments here and the information you have posted in your website. In one hand, you said you insist on light load and low frequency based on Chinese Medicine; in the other hand, all the studies you quoted in your “Pineapple” website are based on “Classic WBV” theory, i.e. Frequency between 30 ~ 50 Hz. I just don’t understand what you really believe!!!
TC
- Nick Morris
May 31st, 2007Hi TC,
Thank-you for your constructive comment. I reiterate that Pineapple’s aim is to provide safe stimulation to ensure performance improvement. The Pineapple mission is to provide maximum health and fitness benefits with the greatest efficiency.I appreciate your comment with regards “classic WBV” and Pineapple, and the new Pineapple website which is currently under construction, and targeted to be finished in the near future will clarify this.
There could be opportunity to define Pineapple outside the realm of “classic WBV”
We have been getting excellent results with elite sports performers on the Pineapple, although this does involve specific techniques that require the input of specific coaching, so I will not highlight these here, so as to ensure safety with regards potential followers of this blog trying these activities without correct supervision or equipment.
The Pineapple aim is to create environments to educate and communicate these methods in the safest way, thus aligning with the target to provide the maximum health and fitness benefits with the greatest efficiency.Pineapple will always welcome input from the Scientific and Research community to evaluate and aid the development of the most optimal programs and methods. As I have stated previously there are 9 current projects, and a number of additional programs intended in the very near future. Prospective research community can always contact me directly (nickolachi@gmail.com)
I look forward to sharing information to ensure the greatest benefits are provided for individuals seeking to improve their health and fitness status.
Nick…
I think TC is concerned you are melding different criteria into one , for the sake of easy marketing.
It would appair from your comments you are going for the elite sports market and then you switch to general improved health and fitness without mentioning these are not in the same field at all, you would be wise in future to seperate your statements.
EG…
Combining sports performance with general fitness can be dangerous. As sports performance training should “peak” where as general fitness should form a ” base” fitness level to apply for the long term .To Nick Morris,
I am disappointed with your response and I would like to quote Wayne Campbell’s comment dated May 30 (page 12) on your previous response …..
“Nick, your post is nothing but a sales pitch that at no stage attempts to address TC’s observations and concerns.”
If you don’t want readers to treat your comment as sales pitch, you have to explain your theory and concept.
TC
- Nick Morris
June 1st, 2007TC
To quote myself:
“I appreciate your comment with regards “classic WBV” and Pineapple, and the new Pineapple website which is currently under construction, and targeted to be finished in the near future will clarify this.”Lloyd,
Thank-you for your comment, I will aim to more distincly describe the execution. Pineapple is being studied with both elite and general population groups. Pineapple is being used and tested with both elite and general population groups.
Specific programs are developed unique to each individual’s target. Some clown has just put an advert on T.V. selling those Vibration Belts they used to make in the 70s telling people it’s Vibration Training.
He calls them…..wait for it….Vibra-Trim
Out come the snakes.
- mike Hair
June 4th, 2007I seen an infomercial for the same thing called vibra tone, i even got an e-mail from a guy wanting to save on postage and pick one up from me. Because my studio has the same name I guess he thought I sold them. I have since left a message on has phone telling him not to waste his money. It still amuses me how people get sucked in to those infomercials.
- Di
June 4th, 2007mike,
I’m surprised you don’t get more requests for products called “vibratone”. *laughs* It’s a great name for a vibration training studio but, as you probably know, it’s also a well-known name for some adult toys. Of course I only know this because one of my friends has a business that sells these
- Wayne Campbell
June 4th, 2007Of course Di, of course ha ha
- mike Hair
June 5th, 2007Sure Di, we believe you. wink wink
- francis
June 10th, 2007kevin : i would like to know which machine you have purchased, I to have tried to do my reasearch and need some help before purchasing. please comply.
- SW
June 28th, 2007Lloyd
I’ve been researching WBV for my clinic (chiropractic). I was a approached by a company called “bodyvibe.” Any comments on their equipment?
sincerely
sw - Erik
June 28th, 2007SW
If you mean http://www.bodyvibeusa.com is it a proper built unit, but equipped with only one small osccilator it is too underpowered. Not the best choice for your clinic i believe.
This basin BodyVibe model would be classed as a home unit in the U.S. It is built in Asia and is designed around the average Asians weight.
For this reason tt is powerered by only one 0.75 HP DC motor (110v to 250v).
http://gordonwin.trustpass.alibaba.com/offerdetail/13306545/Sell_Vibration_Trainer.html
Lighter units are ok for physio work as a general principle but an underpowered unit makes it difficult to stay on a programs target Fq .
But their pro 6000 model would be more suited to a wider range of uses in any health prectice.
One major concern though. The information on its website in places is very misleading and as a result I would be concerned at other statements or promises made by this company. In my experience this is usually not a good sigh of things to come and would indicate marketers are in charge of their science department.
See below.
http://www.bodyvibeusa.com/dual_vs_single_motors.aspx
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February 25th, 2007
Hi TC,
Thanks for the information about FITVIBE. I will call the two suggested co’s tomorrow.
Thanks