Which Vibration Machine?
Doc asks:
I am in the process of setting up a weight and life style disease management center. I would appreciate if anybody could help me make a choice out of Galileo and Turbosonic. Please explain why the machine you choose is better. This could mean a lot to me because I have never used any WBV machine. I am really counting on your opinion.
Written by Lloyd Shaw on November 15th, 2006
619 Comments
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I could find no papers on this subject myself.
I gained my knowledge through ” cross reference theory ” work.
Using one science to explain the missing pieces in another seemingly unrelated science.Sometimes the effect can be seen before the actual cause. And the equation must then be done backwards.
As in most of Dopplers work.
Mark…
I am sorry but you are going to find this years Enterprise Scholarship a mission if you are hoping to rely on published articals by Academics to help you .- Mike
January 10th, 2007I have been using my Vibraslim vibration machine for about 9 months now. I have found that it has worked well for me. More importantly I ACTUALLY use it! Not like my gym membership!
I have not heard of the two vibration machines you mention, but I can say the Vibraslim is a good machine. I paid $1699 for it at http://www.myvibraslim.com.
Good luck with your weightloss!!
Mike
- Phillip
January 10th, 2007Mike you have posted under just about every topic here. obviously a salesman - or at least on a commision??
I dont believe Mike from Vibra-Slim has realized just how many sales he just LOST his company .
I wonder if he even read the blog ?
- Mike Hair
January 10th, 2007WOW, i would say mike is diffently on commision.
What he fails to mention is you can buy these asian made machines off trademe for around $400.
They also keep changing their name, my guess is to avoid any unwanted attention. good for a little bit of therepy, diffentely not for a work out. - Jennifer
January 12th, 2007It is funny how you attack Mike for talking about his machine, while you guys are here PROMOTING your machine!
Talk about the the pot calling the kettle black.
If you are going to pretend this is a real blog and not a promotional site for your products and services, then you should keep these comments to yourself.
Jen
Jen…
Mike does not as has never tried to sell machines on this site. The comments where made because of his apparent complete lack of respect for the general “tone” of this site.Education.. explaination and discussion.
Not outright SPAM marketing.
Mark..
Try reading some of Richard Erskine Free Leaky’s work.
That is where I started. When I was young.
- sarah ball
January 24th, 2007WBV is effective when using the right machines and with correct training. I agree Powerplate has put the industry back by misleading advertising(get skinny)and I would be wary to buy a machine from a company that employs such marketing tactics. The best way to select a machine is through research. Always make sure its independent and check the full facts. Every machine operates differently via frequency, amplitude, vertically or on a central axis. I have seen certain manufacturers use other companies research to sell their machines, just do your homework.
- Peter
January 26th, 2007I have some questions, i’m just reading through this forum and i cannot believe some of the things mentioned here.
personally i don’t have any experiences with the turbosonic device. But it seems to me that it is just another vertical vibration system but then that can run on lower frequencies.
What i do know is that there is only 1 system proved to be a good device and those are the tilting vibration devices with the right frequencies and as far as i know there are only 3 brands in the world that have them: Maxuvibe, Galileo, Vibraflex (galileo/vibraflex are the same factory).
It’s funny to see how marketing by the big giants in this market (powerplate) have managed to create a unreal image about vibration training. Does anybody know that vibrations above 30Hz cannot be followed by your muscles and that a training on those frequencies are very little effective…
Do you know that all the medical researches which almost every brand uses to promote or back up their devices are done on tilting vibration (more then 80% of those researches where performed on tilting vibration). But these researches are not protected so everybody claims then and again they are fooling the customer..
But for everybody who is in doubt buying a vibration device i have one advise go to an exhibition where several dealers are represented (vertical, tilting, (sonic) And try the devices you’ll notice the differences within one minute.
And that is not so strange because as you all know vibrationplate’s are developed by the space program to protect the astronauts, to keep their bones and muscles in shape while they are in space. I can tell you that what they designed was a tilting vibration device, (vertical vibration was created in the late 90’s because they couldn’t crack the patent on tilting vibration and thats why they started the marketing war to let people believe that this was the common form of vibration training, but the truth is far from there.
Tilting vibration is the one developed by the space program, and it’s logical, because they developers thought how can we make a training device within limited space that can assure the health of our astronauts. Simple they developed a device that simulates a natural movement. Tilting vibration simulates a walking movement, it tilts and dips the pelvis, later researches just turned out that this device could do so much more then only support the muscles an bones.
Anyway what i’m trying to tell is that you should not let yourself fooled by marketing talks, find out for yourself.
You have just given us all a perfect example of the marketing we have all come to expect from , well , marketers.
God did you come to the wrong place.( 1) I have the files and Photos on the Lineal units tested by N.A.S.A. They where Lineal.
(2) The system they settled on was the T.V.I.S. , which is a combination of Treadmill and Vibration Platform. ( time saving )
(3) No company has tried to reproduce this system for commercial use.
(4) It is set at 50hz.
(5) The Nemes ( Dr. Bosco’s ) a Lineal platform along with its later copies. Have been tested just as much and now recently MORE than any Pivitol units.
(6) About 15 Asian companies are producing cheap copies already.
But apart from all that. Your attempt to try and compare units was your biggest giveaway.
Only a salesman who hadnt read this entire blog , would make such a mistake.- Peter
January 29th, 2007well Lloyd, show me the pictures because nasa has nothing to do with it it was the russian space program that developed the first tilting device and advanced it in the later years. For me i have no reason of market anything in this i just happen to know a lot about it concerning my work as accountmanager for a big fitness company and yes we do sell vibration devices, all kind from powerplate to vibrogym to maxuvibe to galileo. And we are located in the Netherlands, so i think there is nobody on this site that will ever visit our company will they?
- Peter
January 29th, 2007ow and i forgot the cheaper asian re productions are running on different frequencies or have different innerparts (not running on axes) you feel the differences immedeatly (sorry if my english is not that good). The real patent hold by Novotec is only copied by the Maxuvibe Company (i don’t know how they did it but they did it and appereantly legal also.)
But besides that you suspect me to be a salesmen or whatever, what is your opinion in this then llyod because you can’t be serious if you know so much about it, that you still believe in the vertical system do you? even powerplate is desperatly looking for other alternatives because they know they will lose territory big time the upcoming years
The current T.V.I.S. system used on the space station.
Built by N.A.S.A. and the Russians in a joint project.
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-12/html/iss012e18219.html
I am sorry , but the photos of the other Lineal units can not be shared. As they where given to me under strict guidelines.
- Peter
January 30th, 2007hey Lloyd, do you have more information about that T.V.I.S. system? looks interesting.
But i was refering to the early 70’s when the russians developed the first vibration system, and offcourse i don’t know it all but i work already 6 years with vibration devices and i can pretty sure tell you that it were the russian’s who started it without nasa and it was a tilting device. And i do not want to burn down any brands or factories and praise something in heaven, but at this point with my experiences so far i can say that there is no device that even come close to the Maxuvibe or the Galileo (vibraflex). But offcourse this market is still rising and new products are coming. Like i say i’m very curious about the sonic device.
This march i probarbly be at the IHRSA show, hope to see more of it there.
The first Vibration devices used for exercise and circulation where released about 1914 by Dr. J.H. Kellogg. A few had been designed and written about before then but where not available to the public.
http://lifestylelaboratory.com/portfolio/discovery-center.html
Then the first world war came along and with it the research stopped. Until the 60’s.
The system N.A.S.A. uses has also been tested in another form , in independent studies by the U.S. military.
- Kris
January 30th, 2007Should we wait for the vibrating treadmill before purchasing the tested WBV machines of today?? How long before these combo machines might be available? And just what kind of vibrations can be combined with this kind of movement rather than static positioning?
They are not comparable. In any way.
The T.V.I S. system was designed with time and power consumption in mind. Along with just passable results ( ie… to stop Cardio and Skeletal muscle atrophy and cause micro-gravity for minimising bone loss )
Not evolutionary training as you would want for Body Composition change .
The Battle Creek Sanitarium under Dr. Kellogg’s guidence , had an entire department devoted to ” Vibro-Therapy “. Only a small portion of his units where ever re-made. But his written work still exists. Very basic stuff but he was years ahead of his time.
And of course , just like Pilates , he was ignored by the academics.
For almost 100yrs.
Nice pattern emerging.
- Peter
January 31st, 2007Indeed nice to see that he was already that inventive in that time, but infact as far as i see it he did nothing else then what they already knew in the 1700’s
that vibration are good for bloodcirculation and can help against pain in the joints. (only in that time they used a special wagon driven by horses (now thats basic)! But as far as i know this indeed must be one of the first mechanical machines. The first time involuntary movement was used in this fashion. Was the day someone climbed onto a horse.
Peter…
I hope you have revised your ” History of Vibration Therapy ” Vs ” The beginning of any funded research “.Earlier you where talking history which is exact , not abbreviated marketing. Which everyone uses. ( re the Russians )
Your statement…
” Anyway what i’m trying to tell is that you should not let yourself fooled by marketing talks, find out for yourself ”
Thankyou for proving my point better than I could have.
Considering your company sells this equipment and you claim to have worked with the devices for 6 yrs , some of your comments are plain disturbing. And demonstrates why this technology needs to be in better hands.
As for Dr. Kellogg’s work…
Please do not downplay the importance of these early machines. Increasing blood flow in a patient that is static was profound in itself. Ask anyone working on a ward.
And it was the first direct step towards where we are today.
- Michelle
February 2nd, 2007I found this blog that might help you. Michelle
_________________________________________________The Whole-body Vibration Exercise Program Review & Update
Two weeks ago the Federal Trade Commission fined the marketers of four weight-loss pills $25 million for making false advertising claims including rapid weight loss and cancer prevention. The companies included: Xenadrine EFX, One-A-Day WeightSmart, CortiSlim and TrimSpa. It is good to see the government stepping in and going after these fraudsters.
For the past few months I have been reporting my findings on vibration exercise and gathering more research. I have now talked to many people that use this program to get fit and to lose weight. At first I was skeptical of this theory but after doing this research I was impressed enough that I ordered a vibration machine for myself. I looked at many machines ranging in price from $1700 to $13,000, including: Power Plate, VibraSlim, K2, M-power and the Pila-vibe. Some of these machines are geared more for professional use and are too big and heavy for home use and some are just out of my price range.
After comparing features, quality and price I decided on a machine (I won’t which one here to be objective). These machines are all well built (K2 is borderline though), quiet, have lots of settings, easy to use and have warranties.
Now that I have the vibration machine in my living room my wife and I have been on it for 10 minutes about 5 days a week. We both have become addicted to this machine. The funny thing is that our friends thought we were nuts until they got on it for the first time. It is funny the reaction people have with vibration exercise, at first they get on an laugh as they vibrate away, then they start to get into it as they feel their muscles working. Once you get on this machine, you are hooked! When the 10 minutes is done everyone gets off of it with a euphoric feeling. You really need to try it to understand.
The results so far are impressive. We have both lost weight and gotten stronger in just a few weeks. My wife has seen a reduction in cellulite also (she will kill me if she sees this!). I will continue to report back our results over the upcoming months to keep everyone informed. Our biggest problem now is that our friends keep dropping by to use our machine!
Until next time!
Kevin RellisLinks to Vibration Machine Suppliers:
Power Plate - http://www.powerplate.com
VibraSlim - http://www.myvibraslim.com
Pila-vibe, M-power - http://pila-vibeamerica.com
K2 - http://www.detailshere.com/wholebodyvibration.htm - sarah ball
February 3rd, 2007Hey Lloyd,
I really like reading your forums, but some of your comments are unjustified. Such as the above blog to Peter “some of your comments are plain disturbing. and demonstrates why this technology needs to be in better hands.” Did i miss something here? Lets just have open healthy forums rather than personal attacks.
Maybe you should read all his above comments,
I will not apologise for finding the fact a person involved in the sale of this specialised equipment for ” 6 LONG YEARS ” , has no real knowledge of its origins , but still professes to be an expert in the safest , correct and most tested units available ?
DISTURBING I think is a light term considering the damage these types do.
Remember this man has already admited to repeating this information to countless people who no doubt trusted he was telling the truth.
I think it would be fair to say his motives do not appair good.
But if he was unwittingly lied to , he can alsways jump on this forum , and set the record straight. By naming the person responsable.Fair call ?
Just to let everyone know. We do have the same issues here in N.Z.
A certain so called “non-profit” organization has given a retailer of fitness products the following.
(1) The CEO made a supposedly independent statement in a high profile fitness mag. ” this company is the only one that employs qualified staff ” Knowing no qualification exists in this field.
(2) A ” Preffered Suppliers ” award.
(3) A place on their board.
This particular person has been on our banned list for unethical business practices for some time , and was turned down for a purchase of a studio because of my concerns, which includes.
(1) Selling cheap Therapy units under the guise of Vibration Training.
(2) Although being a landlord , saw fit to go into direct competition with a Tenant. ( highly unethical )
(3) Knowingly useing other companies trademarked names to shift products.
(4) Using results from well known Training units to sell cheap asain Therapy machines to both Gyms and home users.
As having high business ethics could not have been the reason for these moves. As one would expect with a ” non-profit org” . I will leave it up to the readers to guess its motives.
An update and more details to appair on my website soon.
A copy of my complaint sent to Fitness N.Z.
To Jim Bagley,
I wish to lay a complaint against Fitness N.Z. and its recent endorsement of Jonathan Ullrich.
Please note , I do not sell machines to the public or Gym’s as a conscious decision. So Jonathan simply dismissing me as competition is not valid.
I would like the following matters to please be addressed.
(1) The CEO of Fitness N.Z. making a supposedly independent statement in a high profile fitness mag. ” Vibex is the only company that employs qualified staff ” Knowing no qualification exists in this field to date. As no exercise training course covers such a curriculum.
I see this statement as misleading and an abuse of position.
(2) Fitness N.Z. giving a ” Preferred Suppliers ” award to Jonathan Ullrich.
(3) Giving Jonathan Ullrich a place on your board.
Jonathan Ullrich tried to buy into my company ( as per below e-mail ) but was refused because of my concerns about his true motives ( which have come to pass ) , and has been on our banned list for unethical business practices for some time .
These unethical business practices include.
(1) Selling cheap Asian “Therapy” units under the guise of Vibration “Training”.
He asked for my advice on this subject personally in a meeting when inquiring about my company , where I explained the difference in units ( primarily low Dynamic Load specs as designed for Asian market only ), he agreed at which case he asked to purchase into my studio system instead .He now sells same said units . And does not inform his customers of the low Dynamic Load problem.
(2) Although being a landlord of 490B Ti Rakau Dr. Botony Downs , went into direct competition with his Tenant. ( highly unethical )
(3) Knowingly used other company trademarkes to shift product.
I fail to see how these fit in with Fitness .N.Z.s Stategic Intent or Key Roles Policy. And do not believe this is a direction Fitness N.Z. should be taking.
I look forward to your response.
Kind regards Lloyd Shaw
- sarah ball
February 5th, 2007Read it, you have twisted his words. He has just expressed his opinion and does not “profess to be an expert” unlike you Lloyd. Now lets just move on. There is too much bitching on this blog.
You can not have an opinion about being qualified. You either are or you are not. And when you attach your title to that opinion it then gives the statement some authority.
The “Bitching” you refer to Sarah is us “cleaning house”. And must be done out in the open if we want a better reputation than the European market.
There will be no ” Corporate Boys Club” here.
Richard Beddie’s exact words in a published statement..
A more recent entrant to the exercise market is Vibration Exercise Machines, … Vibex - Vibration Exercise for Women…. adding “it is no longer sufficient to say ‘our staff are trained/qualified’ as that could mean a one day course, or perhaps a qualification that is not relevant. REPs registration means the individual meets the specific New Zealand standards for their role, and that they continue to keep their skills updated.”
As no course exists in Vibration Training exercise presciption no standards can exist, so VIBEX staff must fit into the
” qualification that is not relevant ” catagory.
This will be addressed along with other statements made about the Asian units used by Vibex.
- Peter T
February 6th, 2007Hi Lloyd,
I heard Dr Rubin (who has researched vibration training extensively) talk last year. He commented that some vibration machines exceed 8g in peak acceleration which is well beyond the limits recommended for human tolerance by the ISO. I notice that your new machines appear to operate at the high end of magnitude, probibly in excess of 8g. Do you not believe that vibration machines should comply with the ISO guidelines?
Peter
Dr. Rubin was at a conference to launch his own new ” low stimulation ” unit . ( 0.3g )
Only designed for bone density increase.His apparent mention of ISO regulations was seen as surprising to those of us who had been addressing the issue for years.
Safety is my main concern , and I believe my past writings should indicate that.
Important to note…
Dr. Rubens past research was very limited. With his units doing very well , but only at their given tasks.- Laura Smith
February 6th, 2007“Please note , I do not sell machines to the public or Gym’s as a conscious decision. ”
Why do you have machines listed on trademe then for sale to gyms? - BEV
February 7th, 2007Hello everyone,
I have been looking on websites here in Australia trying to find a machine for personal use. I can mostly find commercial machines and I’m about ready to pull my hair out. I am on a tight budget and definitely not an athlete but I don’t know what’s good and what’s not. Can someone help?? - Kris
February 7th, 2007Bev,
After reading through all of these comments and then talking to some actual reps of the limited amount of personal models that have been recommended by this blog’s experts, it seems to come down to the WAVE and HYPERGRAVITY for reliable personal models. If others can recommend others with good records I’d be appreciative. I don’t know if these two are available to you there though.
Frankly, Bev, since I am only learning about these expensive machines and would like to invest in one, I am trying to find out as much information for beginners and those with certain health limitations - esp. since I live where there are no experts to call upon in any established WBV studios as yet. I’m hoping we can get back to the basics here in our discussion, for learners rather than what seems to have turned into debating among those who have other agendas - or who just enjoy talking! Please, people, we’d like to understand the graduating postures, settings for beginners, intermediates and experienced users, what to expect in what time for at least those models that are built well and are recommended here. There are a lot of us who will be using only one machine - in the home.
Again, thanks for your help and assistance. When we know more, we can spread the use of all models and perhaps establish this kind of training in the exercise clubs already in our areas. Isn’t this what the future should hold?
- Peter T
February 7th, 2007Hi Bev,
http://www.elitefitness.co.nz sell home vibration machines and retail for $699nz they would more than likey ship it over to you.
regards,
peter
I dont sell MY units. Ever.
Those are old machines and have restrictions around their sale.
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January 9th, 2007
Hi Lloyd, Yes you’re right i was hoping to learn about the involuntry response caused by vibration. How did you obtain this knowledge? So the only avenue to learn from is the ever growing pile of research papers?