Which Vibration Machine?
Doc asks:
I am in the process of setting up a weight and life style disease management center. I would appreciate if anybody could help me make a choice out of Galileo and Turbosonic. Please explain why the machine you choose is better. This could mean a lot to me because I have never used any WBV machine. I am really counting on your opinion.
Written by Lloyd Shaw on November 15th, 2006
651 Comments
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- Keith
June 24th, 2008Philippa
I notice on the HG site in the testimonial section that 2 people, 1 in UK and 1 in France have imported the HG. Maybe ask Josh if you can contact her (Andrea in the UK)and see how she managed? Also I think the Elite professional should be the one to go for as the vibration intensity goes up in 1 hz steps which will give you the 38hz which Lloyd recommends. - Philippa
June 24th, 2008Good idea - thanks Keith - will ask Josh
- Anna
June 24th, 2008Hi Phillippa,
I live in Australia and I imported HG Gym-O-Vibe. It’s been 5 1/2 weeks since it arrived. Both my partner and I have been training and we’re extremely happy. We’re seeing results already.
regards,
Anna - Philippa
June 24th, 2008Thanks Anna- that’s good to know - it does seem a leap into the dark a bit!
Thats what you get for being ahead of the market.
You have to be prepared to live on love and faith for a while.
- Tim
June 25th, 2008In Sweden, customs would charge 0%, but VAT would be 25%. Still, considering the valuation of the USD, it´s a good deal.
- Philippa
June 26th, 2008I can live on a bit of love and faith!
- Liska
July 3rd, 2008I am extremely scared after reading that low hertz (under 35) are bad for your organs. I have been using the turbo sonic for over a year with these hertz at a chiropractic office and then at a welness center. I was even thinking about buying one . . . but now I am seriously freaked out. Somebody please let me know what the hell is going on? How can this not be known by even the owners of these machines? And why the hell is the company not doing anything about it if its true? Is it even true? I need some serious advice here.
Thanks,
Liska Murry Seaton of HyperVibe in Australia has still not changed a single claim on his website a month after he said he would take our advice on board.
Note to Murry: Researching other peoples websites and ordering out of a catalogue does not make you a “Research and Developer”.
I will continue to post messages like this on a regular basis , so at least someone who Googles you has a chance of getting the truth. Because its not obviously going to come from you voluntarily.
HyperVibe of Australia has finally changed it website statement to read….
“HyperVibe machines have been modified and developed in Australia by a team of health and technical professionals”
Far more in line with the truth and it wont effect sales at all. Well done Murry , see that didnt hurt.
- Nhien
July 26th, 2008I has spinal cord operation in 1.5 year. Just now my health is quite bad, I feel very numb in my legs and my hands, my back is painful. Should I use Vibration fitness machine? In my country(Vietnam), I saw only one product is Fat Reducing Massager RT-Q031. the prices is 800 USD, is that good product?
Please give me some advices!
Thanks you.
Nhien.
Do not use any machine without seeing a specialist . Make sure they know about this technology first.
You should not use a home machine.
- Nhien
July 27th, 2008Dear Lloyd,
Thank you for very fast reply!
I did the operation in Kiel-Germany at C1 of spinal cord, the tumor was atrozytom. I see so many doctors in my country (Vietnam) but they have no comment for my health. I worry that if I do nothing, my health will be worst and worst day by day… I check in GYM center, there have no vibration machine. I want to do exercise, what should I do?
Thanking you,
Nhien.
Sorry ,without supervision it would be to dangerous to even attempt Vibration Therapy. My advice is to go to the gym and do a light weight training session and some cardio.
Liska,
Answer to your question is simple, many Asian manufacturers just make copy of other machines and they do not invest in R&D therefore they have no idea what the machines are made for and how to master/practice the technique. When you purchase a high rank machine, you may pay sometimes 10 times more because you are not only buying the hardware but also the software (i.e. intelligence behind).
TC
Nhien,
You would be very disappointing if you expect medical professionals’ advice on Vibration Training as most of them are not aware of this form of exercises.
You need to know how to ask your question. For example, Is your condition suitable for fitness exercises like doing treatdmill or cycling? If your doctor’s answer is “yes”, in my opinion, Vibration Training can be an alternative choice for you.
It is true that all commercial vibration machines or studio operators would tell you “Tumor” and “Cancer” are absolute contraindications. It is because no one would risk getting sued. Profit of a machine or the income for providing a exercising program is far below justified for the risk of legal obligation.
For exerciser with medical history of tumor/cancer, is Vibration Training more risky than doing treadmill? I doubt. If you read the manual of treadmill, you will probably find the same contraindications.
The risk of Vibration Training is perhaps its effectiviness in enchancing circulation and metabolism rate. If someone is having spreadable cancer, the cancer may spread faster due to the effectiveness of Vibration Training “BY THEORY”. However, as exerciser, you can choose to do Vibration Training lightly for stretching to improve mobility or hardly for muscle strengthening.
Do you mind to give your email?
TC
I inspected and tried a Vibration Therapy machine last week , that does both Pivotal and Lineal movements. This is the best home therapy unit I have seen to date and the price is only $1995 , far better than the $5000 price tag I have seen on other high end products like the Juvent.
Note: It is not a hard core workout unit , but instead is the kind of product I expect to see in rest homes and Doctors offices in the future. It’s ultra-safe and very cool for what it is.
Email me if you want details.
- jerry garcia
August 4th, 2008I would to ask if have any outlets in USA, Vibro Gym. I appreciated your information and if not how will cost me from your place to USA delivery, i know 3 type of vibro gym. please tell me all 3 types cost me. Thanks
jerry
- Dan
September 15th, 2008Hi Jerry,
Give me a call, I am a dealer for Vibrogym in Western Canada and can answer your questions and align you with a Distributor in Colorado if you like.
I actually have a unit I am selling, Professional with all accessories etc. Machine is 7mths old with very light usage. I am expanding into pivotal machines as well and need the space.
Contact us at 403-335-4222 or email at revibe@live.ca
Best Regards,
- Thomas
September 17th, 2008Any comment on this one. The vibrosphere. Swedish company http://www.promedvi.se/?sid=322 .
According to the company it vibrates in all direction simultaneoulsy. Made of plastic, one motor rotating horisontally. The company claim good therapy and muscletraining result. Cheap to buy, 4700 USD. Lightweigt, 15 kg, but can you really call it a WBV unit?
Its not strictly what we would call Vibration Training but we cant hammer every company that uses that term for marketing , it comes with the industry getting bigger. It is a mechanical wobble board and would be an effective training tool if used properly.
From what I can see the company is highly ethical in describing the possible benefits…
Improves balance more effectively than conventional training
Prevents and improves the healing of distortions (sprains)
Prevents injury in the joints
Counteracts atrophy and strengthens muscles.
Strengthens bone density and counteracts osteolysis
Allows the general alleviation of pain
Improves circulation and sensitivity
Stimulates reflex ability
Counteracts dizziness (primarily neck triggered dizziness/whiplash)
Improves posture/postural control more effectively than conventional training
2 thumbs up from me.
- Thomas
September 17th, 2008Yes, wobble board is probably the correct description of this unit. But what is worrying me is that all vibrations in other directions than horisontally must be made from a resonanse or distortion in the unit.
The question is: Is the vertical movement made by a distortion/resonance in a unit equal with the pure(almost) lineal movement produced from an vertically droven oscillator unit?
All directions simultaneoulsy means no control over the vibrations, and yet..There is pretty good result in therapy they show.
In that case i believe we have to admit that all vibrations, no matter what direction, amplitude, frequens and magnitude produces a certain response in human tissue that have a healing effect on a wide range of symptoms.
What do we need the big steel machines for then? Not for therapy purpose anyway. Or?
Thomas…
Yes you are correct , multi-directional light vibrations is what you would call Vibration Therapy. So you do not need a large steel machine.
What’s the difference ? You are only involving your own mass X 1 on something so light.
Eg. If you swing your arm around in multiple directions you will create stimulation in the joints , increased circulation , flexability etc.. all positive therapy values. But no new muscle tissue or fat% loss. Even though your arm may be pulling 2-3 gs just by been swung around.
If you want new muscle tissue and fat% loss you need to add a weight to the end of that arm. In which case you have to stop swinging the arm around randomly and only do controlled movements. The heavier the weight , the more restrictive the movements have to become.
Why? Joints do not act well under “shearing” pressure. But pressure + stimulation is needed for toning , fat% loss or performance enhancement.
This is where the g-force and mass x accl formulas start to have meaning, and with so many levels of machines available to the consumer this is where confusion sets in , and used by unethical marketers to sell light therapy models as full on training devices.
I work to an equation I wrote and tested in 2004 and I use that to gauge how a machine should be constructed to give customers the kind of results they ask for.
- Thomas
September 18th, 2008Yes, i see what you mean Lloyd. This is actually good news for those customers out there who only want a unit for therapy purpose. Even the cheapest Asian products will do the job well.
But… Unfortunately the quality is poor on many of these units and they are overpriced by the distributors. And, the manufacturer had no clue whatsoever about vibration-therapy so the customers do not knew how to use them.
There should not be so hard for a responsible manufacturer to produce a decent unit for therapy purpose and sell it for say 1000 USD with a good and safe therapy program.
Why hasn´t it been done? Do you know of anyone?
Well that is a invite for those retailers who fit that description to jump on and offer your services. One of the few times we allow direct marketing.
You see Thomas , anyone serious about safety and consumer feedback keeps pretty glued to this site .
- Thomas
September 19th, 2008Lloyd,
I am a little bit confused. Earlier on this forum you have nothing good to say about plastic, non vertical or multi-directional units. What is different with this one?
According to the salespeoples this unit create 2 mm amplitude in all directions at 35 hz. I do not think it sounds so good. What about the shearing of the joints while training on a machine wobbling around with equal horisontally as vertically movements?
Is the magnitude of vibration not high enough to create possible injuries or what?
If we increase the energy and create, let say 4 mm amplitude in all directions, should this machine be dangeros to use?
Correct , despite the advertised specs they are too light to break an egg.
- Thomas
September 19th, 2008so, if i read you correct. Pure vertical generated vibrational energy from a steel unit is needed to create a muscular response. Can we then say thet a unit like this can not build muscle or tone tissue? They claim muscletraining anyway but i am sceptical about it.
Again you are correct. But the “muscletraining” term can be any form of stimulation , so we cant really pull them up on that.
The following is a very basic point of difference between the quality of the machines. In my opinion, it greatly contributes to the enjoyment, comfort and safety of the user.
The problem with a lot of these machines is that they are built by engineers that don’t actually use them on a regular basis or even at all.
So, lack of experience + lack of knowledge + budget restrictions from marketing and accounting departments, usually equals a vibrating brick…I remember when Lloyd first started with the Vibro-Gym model. I just couldn’t get into it, like all the other machines I had tried, it just felt like it was biting my muscles.
The vibrations felt more like a punching sensation, Lloyd’s machines however - feel like a bloody powerful push. Incredibly hard and yet smooth on the muscle.
I suggested he called it Force Training instead, but then as usual our imaginations went into quoting scenes from Star Wars… so we won’t go there.Basically, he has managed to build the machines to slow down acceleration at the base and peak of amplitude.
Imagine trying to play Paddle Ball with a golf ball and a piece of nylon string…I am finally relieved to say that there are some machines, rising out of the rubbish, that are worth promoting.
Here in NZ we have a popular auction site similar to eBay called TradeMe.
I cringe at the shear volume of vibrating bricks being sold on the site, even worse - without training.The moment I say anything against them it’s instantly construed as being negative and anticompetitive. Just because I’m part of the industry, it seems I’m not entitled to voice my opinion. Personally I’m kind of getting a little tired of not being allowed to express my concerns about the public’s safety.
In the beginning the response from people was “I heard about that, it’s that belt thingy you put around your waist and makes you wobble”.
Then it developed into “I heard about that, it sounds too good to be true, yeah right!”.
And now its become “I heard about that, my cousin’s husband’s best friend’s mother bought one of those for $150″. I’ve given up, now my reply to that is “The money would have been better spent on something from an adult store, and she would have been a lot happier”We need to raise the public’s perception value back up to around a minimum of US$1000 or NZ$2000 for a good Vibration Therapy unit.
I’ve discussed this with Lloyd and he is confident it will all iron out… I can see the cogs in his head turning, he has a plan in there somewhere.
- L.W
September 20th, 2008Hi Lloyd,
I’ve not had the chance to use a WBV machine. I’ve read a whole load of posts on this subject most people ask your advice on specific models but don’t ask about the reasons behind it. Could you give your opinion on what the necessary parameters are of a decent WBV machine (for all applications, therapy and exercise)?
For example:
Range of frequencies (Hz)?
Setting increments (Hz) [Given the difference in users I would have thought 1Hz increments best]?
Range of displacement/ amplitude (mm)?
Range of motion (x,y,z planes)?
Type of mechanism (cam, electromagnetic, etc)?
Construction materials?
Are there any other factors you would add to this list?I found this vid on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPOSGhBEOmc
Are you familiar with the Turbosonic device?What is your opinion of different frequencies stimulating different body areas? I thought some of the ‘Alternative Lifestyle/New Age’ marketing a bit transparent, but I did think the electromagnet mechanism interesting…
If I were to construct a rudementary device in my shed, what do reckon the materials would cost?
In anticipation of a response, I would just like to thank you for your time…by the way, you mentioned above an equation, could you briefly (or in depth) share your concept and the equation? Does it take into account resonance/harmonics, which would be different for each individual?
Kind regards,
L.W I think I have covered most of what you you ask in regards to specs in the articles. I suggest going through taking notes , as it may be a bit spread out.
Stimultating certain body parts may help with therapy values but in no way would cause an anaerobic responce. In other words it not “training”.
Using a Lineal electromagnet motor is a good idea , but does have its limitations. A combination of heat and physics. But all systems have limitations.
As for price , sorry I cant say for sure , as that depends on so many factors. All I can say is if you want something fantasitc , be prepared to pay.
The equation…
This would need a book , and the reader would need a certain level of understanding of all basic principles first. I have invited anybody with that base knowledge to converse with me on this subject , but so far I have had no takers. And when it does happen it wont be on here , we would put everybody to sleep.
- L.W
September 27th, 2008Thank you for taking the time to respond.
I’ve added you Begginer’s Guide to WBV to my favourites and will read at my lesuire. On behalf of myself and other would be WBV users, thank you for putting forward a reasonable, rational discussion on what can be an opaque subject.
If I reach a point when I think I may be able to follow a more technical discussion I’ll come back…otherwise could you recommend any reading material that would cover the basic principles? Even if you could name a particular mathmatical theorem, branches of physics etc, I would appreciate any point in the right direction.
Kind regards,
L.W L.W….
The broad spectrum of subjects Vibration Training covers is daunting. So my advice is to pick on one aspect at a time.
There is some key information I will never give away , but the bread crumbs are there for anyone to follow.
What part were you looking at ?
- David Roscher
September 28th, 2008Where can I find companies that have these units for per use rent? I’d love to go to a facility on a regular basis to use a vibrational unit for it’s ‘workout’. I reside in the Portland, Oregon metro area. Does anyone know of anyone that has a TurboSonic or otherwise that I can pay to use?
Thanks so much
- jose
September 29th, 2008I was doing some research online and came accross this information. Could you tell me what validity there may be or is this a generalizatioon? I see below that “Oscilating” machines are beneficial for general fitness, therapy and health whereas the “Tri-Plainer” Plates are more for Specialized training?
Thanks in Advance
Oscillating (Pivotal or see-saw) - Best for fitness, therapy & health
Oscillating Vibration (1 to 10 mm) is the most natural vibrating movement
and has the widest range of benefits. By combining the benefits of
stretch-reflex inducing vibration found in the Tri-Planer vibration machines
with the natural flowing movement in the horizontal massagers. People find
this type of machine most comfortable and it makes sense that muscles are
activated alternately as they would be in walking. This is by far the most
popular type of vibrating machine and is widely used by trainers and doctors
across the USA. This type of vibrating fitness machine is suitable for all
ages and health levels.Tri-Planer-Tri-Plainer Vibration (Lineal) - Best for specialized training
Very high frequency vertical micro-vibrations (1 to 4 mm) are created by
this machine. This style of machine can be uncomfortable for some users and
is used mainly for high level fitness training. Some use tri-plainer
machines to rest their feet on if they are in a wheel chair for example.
Others perform sit ups and squats on the machine. Tri-planers are not
recommended for those that are not in top shape and can be very
uncomfortable for older users. Jose…
Sorry , all marketing , no truth to it and obviously from a place selling Pivotal units from China.
Some people do prefer one system over the other but they need to try both to make that decision.
- jose
September 30th, 2008Thanks Lloyd,
I have been reading the great opinions shared in this forum for months but still don´t get the essential difference between the pivotal and lineal models… but I understood that you have to pay the price to get something decent that won´t hurt you, correct? I think that for vibration training will be better suited. What do yout think of the lineal Vibrogym machines? they are quite expensive, made in Europe and on their marketing documents they claim to be the “original plate”… what was the first machine on the market?
jose - John Weatherly
September 30th, 2008I recently posted on the vibration training thread on the performance section of the forum at http://www.coreperformance.com about the importance of accurate testing and establishing reliability for different vibration platforms. This site is becoming just laughable! The site administrator brought Scott Hobson, Director of Education for Power Plate, on the site to participate in the forum. They kicked Lloyd off the site some time ago for asking questions and exposing Power Plate. I have asked several basic questions and Scott has still failed to answer. And apparently now, there’s a “save Scott campaign” going on. I sent the administrator of the site a message several days ago asking when Scott was going to respond to my questions and have not received an answer. I suspect they will wipe all this off the site when they relaunch this fall and will “stall” so Scott doesn’t have to answer anything until the time of relaunch. Thus, the “save Scott campaign” seems to be in full force. I bet Scott will never answer my questions. What do you think?
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June 24th, 2008
More questions!!!! It’s endless. I want to import Hypergravities into the UK but customs and VAT will add 20% onto the cost. Ouch! Has anyone done this or have any tips on how to get stung a bit less?