Which Vibration Machine?
Doc asks:
I am in the process of setting up a weight and life style disease management center. I would appreciate if anybody could help me make a choice out of Galileo and Turbosonic. Please explain why the machine you choose is better. This could mean a lot to me because I have never used any WBV machine. I am really counting on your opinion.
Written by Lloyd Shaw on November 15th, 2006
651 Comments
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Hey Andrea,
Definitely read the article Lloyd pointed out (previous post)
I have personally used the Crazy fit / Vibraslim / Vibratrim / Vibrapro 1000 (slim vibes). They are all the same machine.
The machine does not compare to higher end pivotals at all. It has a weaker amplitude and cheap motor.
I have personally heard of two people who had to return the unit because the motor burned out.
Just trying to help you save money and frustration buying a cheaply made unit.
Bryant
- Wayne Campbell
May 1st, 2008Vibration Taining has finally really made it now - It was mentioned on Shortland Street last night, (So they tell me of course)
I was wondering about any other medical practitioners using Turbosonic. I just put one in my practice a week ago. So far those that are using it, love it. Including me. But I was wondering if any others out there have been using it longer and what there overall results are.
The TurboSonic has great Therapy values if used correctly.
From what TurboSonic has shown us to date their training techniques contradict our safety programs that are run at commercial centers. So you may want to look into this yourself , for the sake of your clients.
Note: It is not considered a Training device.
Hey Lloyd,
I have read the research that the reason you want to use lineal systems above 35 hz has to do with the resonant frequencies of the internal organs and spine (organs 5hz-20hz, upper neck/lumbar 20-30 hz).
But in all fairness machines like the turbosonic have very small and subtle vibrations with settings on small amplitudes. Personally I have used the Turbosonic and I admit it is my favorite lineal system. The lower frequencies create no uneasiness whatsoever when I use it.
Nick’s Pineapple falls into a similar category (with small amplitude and low frequency).
What research do you base your recommendations of a minimum of 35 (or is it 37) Hz for lineal. And is it possible that small amplitudes will not create any problems?
Even though I personally recommend a pivotal machine, I must admit I like the way the Turbosonic makes me feel every time I use it.
But it certainly has its downside with breaking down a lot and a $13K - $16K pricetag. Though I have heard they are making the machines better now.
Thanks,
BryantMy comments come from our own tests showing the greatest Fq/Ampl making its way into the head via the spine at Fq below 37 hz ( 2004 ) . The worst at 15-30hz ( that was with perfect posture ).
This also backed up the research I had already done ( I mainly used military tests ) that showed certain Fq could cause discomfort and even disrupt tissue function. I decided to keep away from these Fq as a safety precaution .
Note: Of course there are always variations that may be safe and still give positive results, so from a scientific angle , yes they might be ok .
But……
I also took into account interviews with customers and personal trainers using different Fq for their first time contact with Vibration Training.
What we where looking for was the “overall” effect.
Full Fatigue + Pleasant ride = Willingness to return.
Our responsability has always been to introduce Vibration Training to the consumer in the safest and most pleasant manner possible.
Note: Without repeat customers this all just becomes an academic arguement.
I will be releasing much more on resonance effects VS Vibration Training and their actual causes later this year.
- filippos
May 2nd, 2008HELLO,
I’M FROM GREECE AND I AM A GYM OWNER IN A SMALL VILLAGE.
POWER PLATE HAS TAKEN OVER HERE IN GREECE. EVERYBODY TALKS AND LOOKS FOR THIS MACHINE. PERSONALLY I STAYED AWAY. THIS YEAR I BOUGHT THE P-VIBE (www.p-vibe.com) I GOT THIS PLATFORM BECAUSE I LIKED THE VIBRATION. IT IS A SMOOTH NOT VERY POWERFULL VIBRATION LIKE I EXPERIENCED WITH THE VIBROGYM AND DID NOT LIKE AT ALL.
I DO NOT CLAIM TO KNOW A LOT BUT I AM WILLING TO LEARN FROM YOU. HERE IN GREECE WE DO NOT HAVE THE PROPER INFORMATION ABOUT TRAINING WITH VIBRATION. EVERYONE BUYS POWER PLATE. THEY DO THE BASIC SEMINAR AND OFF THEY GO TO TRAIN OTHERS. VERY UNPROFESSIONAL.
ANYWAY, P-VIBE CLAIMS TO BE ORIGINATED FROM THE US
DO YOU KNOE ANYTHING ABOUT THIS PLATFORM?
ALSO IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET THE HYPERGRAVITY OR THE VIBRA-TRAIN IN GREECE? It seems like an Ok product , but its only 1 yr warranty on structure is a bit worrying.
E-Mail them directly and ask for confirmation they are “made in the U.S.” as opposed to ” designed in the U.S.” ( but made in China ).
What I do find alot of nowdays , as with the company above , they always say….
“The Most Advanced Vibrating Training System” available
And then never say why it “advanced” ?
No new ideas or technology comes with it.
Hello Filippos,
Hypergravity machines are shipped internationally. Go to http://www.hypergravity.net to get in touch with Josh Hayon there.
Kind regards, Josh Wiebe
Thanks for your feedback Lloyd.
I appreciate your efforts to keep the ever growing field of vibration training a safe, enjoyable and effective way to exercise and strengthen the body.
Also, I am getting good feedback with your “bullet” training protocol on pivotal machines.
bryant
- Jason
May 6th, 2008As I knew, any part of human body has its resonance frequency even upto 100Hz.(ie. head: 20~30Hz, eye:20~90Hz…..)
Anybody can tell me why low frequency (below 20Hz)is not good for body? not say 30, 40, 50Hz…. What you are asking is way to advanced to be put on this site. Just matching the resonance of most body parts is not the problem , as no damage can occur with short exposure. It is deliberate over exposure we worry about.
But the Lumbar is different ….
I will be writing an article explaining the exact cause and effect of incorrect resonance in the squat position on the lumbar on my new site.
- Jason
May 6th, 2008The key point is period under resonance condition and the resonance energy, but not the frequency?
Yes the period is the main concern ,the Fq causes the resonance factor.
Deliberatly matching resonance Fq of orgins etc… for long periods is not the smartest idea. But only on a theoretical level.
Overtraining and other issues to do with Fq are far more impostant.
- Jason
May 6th, 2008So…Can you tell me how long we can use vibante plateforme below 20Hz. and how long more than 20Hz
If you are talking about Lineal…
I would not tell you to use anything under 30hz. I believe the risks outweight any benifits.
Why are you going under 20Hz for ?
Just to remind you , this forum is to give advice to the general public.
- Jason
May 6th, 2008I tried some vibrante plateforme in store(forget the brand), I feeled good at 5Hz~16Hz, I don’t know it’s lineal or not, but no tilt.
I asked my friend (he is a rehabilitate doctor), he said if my body feel good and no uncomfortable, it’s ok about all.
I want to own one, could you give me some suggestions?
I have some worry about hurting body. My suggestion…..
Read all the articles on this site and thyen make your decision.
- Xhenghsun
May 8th, 2008Lloyd,
Can you explain or give us the evidence about your statement…..
“I would not tell you to use anything under 30hz. I believe the risks outweight any benifits.”
Thks! What you are asking is very complicated , and not for this type of website. When I do write about it , it is going to be a very very long article.
In the mean time you either trust my advice , or you dont.
- Xhenghsun
May 8th, 2008“whole body vibration training” is not food, I don’t think it’s good or bad from other’s statement with no responsibility.
I am interested in “whole body vibration training”, I want to get more knowledge from this website but not boasting. Good point…
I am prepared to bet you dont understand all the processes ( down to the exact chemical reactions ) used in preparing the food you eat every day.
But you still eat it basing your decision on trusting the person who prepared it does.
- Xhenghsun
May 8th, 2008I mean that you tell us under 30Hz has risk, but Jason said he feel good at 5~16Hz, and no news told us somebody was hurt under 30Hz even the products under 30Hz are very popular in the market.
I think your statement is your conjecture and no evidence.
Why did you always direct reader to trust that under 30Hz is bad? Is that for public or business?
I think this websit is not for business. So evidence or explanation is very important for public, otherwise that will be a rumormonger. From day one “ISO 2631″ guidelines were employed by me as safety measures in all programs and designs.
Most of the tests on resonance disturbance were military ( Air Force and Army , U.S. and Australia )
Civil engineering OSH tests were also included.
Example…
U.S. Army Centre for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine
” Vibrations between 20-30hz can cause resonance between the head and shoulders. THESE SITUATIONS CAN CAUSE CHRONIC MUSCULOSKELETAL STRESS OR EVEN PERMANENT DAMAGE TO THE EFFECTED REGION ”
Australian Government Department of Defence, DSTO
4-8hz soft organs
10-12hz Torso
“AROUND “30hz Head and Neck
60-90hz eyeballs .As in the tests some individuals did not give negative reports , but I go with the highest % not the lowest.
We are responsable for introducing this technology to a large uneducated consumer base , so caution comes first.
Note: Those recommendations are for Lineal not Pivotal.
To add some support to what Lloyd is sharing here.
Our Elite machine has the ability to go below 20hz (for therapeutic training only).
I have personally trained in the lower frequencies and noted discomfort while training below 30hz. While performing some of the upright exercises, the discomfort ranged from inside my chest area and up into my neck and head. For the same reasons Lloyd states we not recommend regular training session to be performed in this range.
Jason, perhaps you could share with us the name of the machine so we can gain a better understanding of what you are referring to.
- Xhenghsun
May 8th, 2008Why the products under 30Hz are so popular, and so many studies are based under 30Hz?
“whole body vibration training” is “training” not “occupational work (even more than 8 hrs /one day)”.
your explanation is under the essential of occupational disease but not training.
you said “the period is the main concern …”, Your explanation?
Do you have any reports about lower frequency training hurt body? Pls post they for our reference. Dear Xhenghsun,
I think your studies have been based on pivotal training. What Lloyd is referring here to is lineal training. These are two totally different platforms and can not be compared directly.
It must be noted that some companies are promoting poses and Fq outside the accepted standards to set themselves apart from their competition , it is called….
” Point of difference ”
If you have a similar unit , at a similar price you either do your job so well on other levels that you stand out ( this takes time ) , or you panic and act random and make up crazy protocols hoping it attracts some attention.
- Xhenghsun
May 8th, 2008I regret I have not get the answer about my question.
Another question—Why the resonance has difference between pivotal and lineal? please give me about physics explanation. Xhenghsun…
This is not the forum to get into deep discussions about …..
Single Fq
Constuctive interference
Destructive interference
Rayleighs wave
Shells law
P & S waves
QuantaAnd their exposure to involuntary reflexes in primates . That is for the future I.V.T.R.B. site.
But here is something you can do….
Jump off a chair and land on both feet .
Now jump from left to right as far as you can.The energy equations are very different.
Understand ?
To Xhenghsun,
I think if you are willing to spend time to go through this forum completely, you would get the information you want.
Regarding your last question, the vibration energy generated by a pivotal vibration plate is mostly absorbed by the joints of lower limbs and pelvic movement. Let’s imagine vibration by pivotal plate as an impact or attack, when it “hits” the exercise on the right side, the body shifts weight to the left as a buffering response by instinct, and vice versa. Therefore there is no much vibration energy transmitted to the body above pelvic. On a lineal vibration plate, an exerciser receives the stimulation both sides simultaneously that allows vibration energy to transmit to whole body.
It is therefore we should be more careful in selecting frequency and with training poses with a lineal vibration device.
TC
- Xhenghsun
May 8th, 2008I just want to get more some knowledge about “whole body vibration traing”, not business taste.
No report about body hurting,
and so many products from lower Fq.to higher Fq. Somebody buzz higher Fq. will hurt body,
some scholar studied it cover any Fq. for relaxing, rehabilitant, training….It’s definitely complicated, but I deliberately suggest don’t to say which one is better or not before we have clear evidence, and no conjecture.
Xhenghsun……..
I do not think you are here to learn or you would be listening to those of us who are in the industry and taking our safety protocols seriously. Between us we run dozens of studios worldwide , some of us are in competition with each other and we still agree that caution is a good idea.
You have also not taken the time to read the material on this site , so my advice is to put some effort in before you come back with your “advice”.
Note: If you want to be taken seriously yourself , then put up your whole name and business contacts so you can stand by any statements or suggestions you do make.
Your ” anything goes ” advice in the mean time I promise will be ignored.
Derek here…
I have received quite a bit of information regarding vibration training and the associated machines. We will be conducting controlled tests and offering the results to our clients, members, and thousands of weekly web site visitors. I would like to personally thank Lloyd for his intellectual contribution and many of the manufacturer’s representatives whom will receive credits for their efforts as well. Unfortunately, we did not receive all of the support for which we are looking but have received enough support to continue with our efforts. The “big guys” on the block are so because they understand the organic nature of business growth as a process uncomplicated by foolish hands. Thank you again.
I’m been researching one of these machines for weight loss and toning, but something else really perked up my interest: AUTISM
I have a son who is mildly autistic. Do any sites or manufacturers have information on whether or not these machines improve focus and and learning disabilities such as ADD?
No specific research……
I am ADHD and I find the massive energy release helps me think clearer and sleep better , and I believe it releases hormones that balance things out.
Unfortunatly when I was young I had nothing like this ( they did try to drug me up once and it just turned me into a zombie ).
I only ended up learning to focus through playing chess and learning to follow my passions no matter how “abnormal” they appeared.
How old is your son ?
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April 28th, 2008
Andrea,
The machine you mentioned is better known as CrazyFitness; which is one of lowest end China-made tilting vibration device.
TC