The Fit-X
Anna asks:
I go to a gym here in Auckland, that has 4 ‘vibration training’,not ‘vb therapy’ machines… 3 of which machines I can’t remember the names of, but they look quite old, you have to manually turn the times and intensity, and type of vibration then press the button for it to go.. and now they just got in a new machine called Fit-x.. and I am wondering how it compares to your machines.
I do exercises on it like the ab crunches and some pilates moves… but I find I am not sore at all the next day and can go again the next day. I have only done it for a few weeks.
The Fit-X is a therapy machine built in Korea. It should not be compared to a training model.
48 Comments
- Lloyd Shaw
September 12th, 2006All the gyms I have spoken to think they have “training models” until they come in and try a workout machine for themselves. Then they either act embarrassed or get angry. Usually some dodgy salesman has told them something along the lines of ” they all do the same thing “.
The Body-Pulse unit is good, but what i would call a Therapy model. It was built by Medi-Flex, a medical equipment supply company.
- Anna
September 14th, 2006Ok thanks Lloyd i will deffinetly have to visit one of your studios to compare the difference.At the moment Iam using Faradic current,we have just started learning that at course today.different to vibra train. passive form f exercise,abit complicated at the moment,easy tho once you know the points of origin and insertion of different muscles. My tutor was asking about the vibra train to I will put her onto your site.
There’s a rumour going around tho that it is really bad for your joints… but your site and hypergravity site talks about how it’s actually good for the joints?
- Ronny
September 14th, 2006You’re right about being hard on your joints Anna. If you don’t believe get a friend…uhh, better make that an enemy and have them perform squats dynamically on the platform(as with the full motion up and down) the swelling that will ensue is very evident. It should’nt be done yet try getting that info from the manufacturers…all you’ll get is “you can perform movements dynamically” VERY vague direction and detail as they would’nt want to be on the hook for injury.
I urge caution sweets…caution.
- Kirk
January 30th, 2007Hi Lloyd. Can you please explain the difference between a training and a therapy machine. Do they operate on a different a hertz rating or amplitude, or is it something to do with the manufacturing process? any info would be appericated.
Kirk
The Amplitude and Hz rating has little to do with a machines Therapy/Training catagorie. A Therapy unit will not induce a high vibratory kenetic force. A Training unit will.
This is a design feature.
And must be done as a balanced physics equation. Or the response will be random.
- Kirk
January 31st, 2007Is there any chance you could expand on what you mean by ‘induce a high vibratory kinetic force’? I am still a little confused about which machines are therapy and which are training. Is there any easy way to tell? is it possible for them to be both? Sorry for the 20 questions.
- Sam Lee
January 31st, 2007Lloyd,
I’m intrigued by how you distinguish machines by their “high vibratory kenetic force.” I presume you are referring to kinetic energy which is a function of mass and velocity. Surely velocity is affected by the amplitude and herz rating of a machine?Also what do you mean by “a balanced physics equation”. I studied physics at university and aren’t familiar with that phrase
thanks
Sam - Erik
February 1st, 2007Hello lloyd, i do wondering…
If it´s not the amplitude and Hz rate inducing the kinetik force at a vibrating plattform, what is it then?
If we presume the motor capacity is strong enough in two similiar plattforms, stiff enough so they don´t produce resonance, equal suspension, setting at the same Hz and amplitude, they surely must produce the same kinetik force, indipendently of design, weight of plattform etc.
Is this equation you talk abort really so mystic Lloyd? I believe it´s just physics. You are missing 5 parts of the equation.
You.
Your body and it’s responses are not just a physics equation.
This is not ” just” physics.
You are trying to influence an infinite equation with the set perameters of a machanical decice.
There is also more than one part to a vibration.
A Hz is just a very simplistic term for this.
- Kirk
February 1st, 2007I am still confused as it almost sounds like you are just trying to cloud the issue Lloyd with some of ‘marketing speak’.
Don’t get me wrong I am fan of Vibration Training, but I am confused as to the difference between the machines and how they operate. Erik makes some good points and we are seeking your clarification as you appear to very knowledgeable in this field.
I am sorry guy’s , but what you are asking needs a book. Not a forum.
- Mike Hair
February 1st, 2007Sam Lee, Erick, Kirk.
You 3 clowns are obviously trying to build a machine, if you dont understand now how a properly built machine works then you will never understand so walk away and find another occupation. A proper machine built in its simplist form is a 9 part equation a precise machine is many more. I have spent time with Lloyd and he thinks differently to the average joe bloggs, so like i have said unless you already have it you probably will never get it, even after spending time with Lloyd I still have trouble thinking on his level.
Not that i am blowing smoke up his backside but i believe he will be noted in history as a pioneer in this industry.
Besides incase you guys havn’t noticed this is a site designed for discussion on fact or fiction not how to make a machine, and at the end of the day who cares how it is made, the results speak for themselves So diplomatic Mike , the U.N. needs you.
But you are prob not far off. 3 people in the same day asking the same questions ?
A little obvious.
A note to the general public…I dont mind giving direct answers , but teaching from scratch is alot to ask for.
- Erik
February 1st, 2007Mike, Lloyd. Let´s leave the clown level.
In the scientific world we have to prove our statements with reproducable evidence. In my clinic work i can see the WBV works with my patient´s, and i think it´s great. But how do i proove the benefits to the sceptical ones? Can you?
The sceptics will be taken care of with only one thing..
Time.
The one thing im not in control of and no amount of studies can change.
- Mike Hair
February 2nd, 2007I for one am not interested in sceptics, infact they are nothing short of a pain in the backside. I am only interested in helping people that want to be helped and not those with a theory and an uneducated opinion.
I agree with Lloyd TIME is the only thing that will sort them out. My guess is within the next 5 years WBV will be a very valuable tool in the fitness industry.
This may sound a bit blunt but I have always believed in making educated decisions which can only come from research not mans logic. - Erik
February 2nd, 2007OK,we do know WBV is working and yes, we can see it making our clients, patients, customers happy.
But, if we want this method to be videly spread,we can´t claim that parameter´s in the equation to build platforms and get results out of WBV is nearly impossible to learn and understand.
If we do know HOW it works, a scientific study will prove our statement. Othewise the sceptics then can say: Oh, it´s not the platform itself that works, it´s just what the therapist or the personal trainer make the client to belive happens.
Why waste time. We do works for the benefit of people, or don´t we?
I can see your point Erik , but you are forgetting one thing.
Unlike most therapy’s the results given by Vibration Training when done on a correct unit , are not ambiguous. They are profound.
Over a very large demographic.
A little to hard to argue with , even for a hard core skeptic. It has always been the same when practical sciences are released.
Trust me you will be hard put to find a person willing to state in public the opposite soon.I personally have a list of health proff. who have made public statements saying definitive remarks like ” cant” ” wont ” and ” don’t ” surrounding the effects of Vibration Training.
They will be asked by name to explain those remarks on this forum.
As I do not believe the double standard of misusing your position to influence anothers health and move them away from a treatment simply because you lack the education to understand it.
Is any better than making promises and failing to deliver.As for usege by the public…
No the exact mechanism is not needed to be known to be widely used and obtain benifit from .
Most people still dont know how their T.V. works . But it doesnt stop them buying and using one.
- Erik
February 2nd, 2007Ok, Lloyd. But the problem here in Europe is the flood of machines from different manufacturer´s claiming to be WBV training units. But they are not. And that is obvious for anyone standing on them for more than one minute.
So, how do we deal with the fact that the WBV industry getting a bad reputation because there is no guidelines for the people who want to buy them for their clinics or work on them at the gym?
We can not go for the price. In that case the Next generation PP unit with it´s 13 000 USD price is the winner.
I believe Lloyd Shaw can separate a good unit from a bad just standing on them for a minute, but how do an average user or buyer do this?
Wich kind of vibration will make you good and wich kind will hurt you? In the long run? The Vibration Training Assocation ( VTA ) is being formed this year. The Charter was set down in early 2005 , but I had no members I could trust.
The VTA will have it’s own website and machines tested around set guidelines. From an independent engineer. So the consumer has a place to start.
It is unfortunate the Europeans have seen fit to bastardize the industry so early on , but I am working as hard as I can to fix the mess .
And I will.
- Jason
February 3rd, 2007Hallo Lloyd
I think that will be useful to write a short comment (training/therapy) near the brands following.
As you told, here in europe the WBV environment is misty and i believe this will help .* Body Action
* Fitvibe
* Galileo
* Hypergravity
* K1 Whole Body Vibration Machine
* Power Plate
* Power Vibe
* Soloflex WBV
* TurboSonic
* Vibmax (Sweden)
* Vibra Fit
* Vibra-Train (NZ)
* VibroGym
* Whole Body Vibes I have not tested or been in personal contact with all these units , so anyone reading this is only taking my fair advice of my “opinion” of the unit.
To keep it simple I will not say ” good’ or “bad ”
The review will be split between Therapy and/or Training. Having both gives your training ( BMR+ , muscle tone etc..) room to evolve. But being just Therapy is good if thats all you need them for.You either trust my judgement or you dont. To any manufacturor out there who does not appreciate my comments. My advice is simple. Go build a better machine.
Body Action………..Therapy
Fit-Vibe…………..Therapy / Training
Galileo……………Therapy
Hypergravity……….Therapy / Training
K1 WBV…………….Therapy
PowerPlate…………Therapy
Soloflex…………..Therapy
Turbo-Sonic………..Therapy
Vibmax…………….Therapy / Training
Vibra-Fit………….Therapy
Vibro-Gym………….Therapy / Training
Whole Body Vibes…… ? need name of actual unit.Vibra-Train ………..( 5 different units ) sorry will not comment on my own machines . Please visit my website
- Jason
February 4th, 2007Thanks Lloyd , very illuminated.
- Kirk
February 4th, 2007I am not sure I deserved to be called a clown. I have asked a simple question, about a type of therapy I respect and believe in and only to be cut down by some bloke called Mike Hair. I’m sorry but who are you? and did I ask anything of you? No, I did not. I asked Lloyd what i believe to be a simple question, could you expand on what makes a ‘training or therapy’ machine?
And just for clarification I have no idea who those other blog posters are, and no I am not trying to build a machine. I am a NZ health care professional who is trying to understand industry. And quite frankly the attitude and level of maturity displayed here could account for the reason this medium of therapy or training hasn’t taken off. Food for thought.
- Site Administrator
February 4th, 2007NOTE: There is no need for any name-calling whatsoever. Please keep discussion related to the issue (WBV) not personal issues, pet-hates or insults.
Any such comments will be removed.
- mike Hair
February 4th, 2007My apoligies kirk if i hurt your feelings.
I thought it was just a little suspect that 3 people are seeking the same info on the same day. Not that it is a secret but as Lloyd has explained if you dont understand the basic princable on how a machine operates then he would have to write a book to explain it, which A. would take to long and B. would probably bore the crap out of most people.
At the end of the day the main thing is it works, unless you are building a machine i guess it dosn’t matter how it works.
I dont know how planes fly but i still know they fly. A note to all bloggers….
if you “choose’ to go into a forum under anything other than your full name and ask professional questions.
In my experience , unfairly or not.
(a) You will not be taken seiously.
(b) You WILL be seen as dodgy.The public will not have such limitations , as their questions are seldom directed at commercial gain. And so have nothing to hide.
- Kirk
February 4th, 2007Mike. My feels are not hurt, I am just alarmed at your defensive attitude, when ask a question. If it’s a manufacturers secret then that’s fine. To use your analogy, it seems like it would be as simple as describing the different between a 747-400 and a glider. Both fly, but they are plainly different, just as the above machines have been described.
Lloyd a question is a question it shouldn’t matter who asks it, and in such a fledgling industry you should be doing all you can to encourage interested people to find out more.
- Sam Lee
February 4th, 2007Lloyd,
I still don’t understand your distinction between therapy and training machines (a term i have never heard of before to describe vibration machines). For example, the Vibro-gym and Powerplate machines operate at the same amplitude and frequency range. How can one be therapeutic and one a mix if they both operate the same?Also if a machine is therapeutic what does this mean versus a training machine?
thanks
Sam Sam Lee…
Please read past posts for answer.Kirk….
My main concern personally is your and other fitness instructors lack of questions regarding the ” effect ” ( what happens to the individual on a unit ) part of the equation.
As you did say this was your job.As opposed to the ” cause ” ( the machine ).
You must walk before you can run so to speak.
The ” secret ” to understanding , identifying or building a machine is knowing “exactly” what response you are trying to cause first. Which unfortunatly is not taught in any curriculum in total I am aware of.
Only after that is understood , then the Physics of creating a unit can be approched.
I promise , anyone asking me the right questions in the right order will be answered. As I do not operate out of fear.
In the mean time you will unfortunatly be relegated to asking those in the industry with a clean reputation about what units they recommend for what purpose.
Mikes attitude is harsh , but has come from experience , where as an independent owner of a studio , he has seen how many people bluff their way through this technology. Even going to the lenghts of building units and selling them with no knowledge of how they are supposed to work. Let alone if they actually do or not.
He almost lost everything as a result.
One of my missions is to expose these companies lack of knowledge, by asking the hard questions.
A random study will soon be done by the VTA. Where companies will be asked very particular questions , and their answers published.I promise this will quickly seperate the industry into those who should be building units, from those who shouldnt .
- Erik
February 5th, 2007Lloyd,
Please explain for an European what VTA is, and why the have the authority to make this study.
The VTA is the Vibration Training Association.
European company heads will be on the board.
It’s authority will be built up by it’s reputation to give the public real answers to real questions.
True authority like a reputation is earnt.
The questions will be sent to each major brands appropriate department, from a random e-mail address , then displayed along with the answers given by each company.
I beleive a ” no response ” at all being the worst scenerio for a company and would indicate ” no knowledge “.A short artical will then follow , attempting to answer the question in total.
We will leave it up to the “reader” to decide which answer best covers the topic. A rating will not be given. It can be the actual consumer who makes that call.
This will be repeated until clear patterns emerge.
I have written 18 papers that have not been released yet , and the questions will be based on these.
They will range from basic medical problems to engineering specs. So I expect certain strengths to show up in some companies.
I believe any company hiring true professionals will not have a problem with this , as most answer questions everyday as part of their sales stategy.
I can see no reason for objections or nervousness from legitimate companies.
But if I have missed something , please feel free to air your concerns.- Phillip
February 6th, 2007Hi Lloyd,
I say go for it.
As someone who uses vibration training and beleives in it I would hate to see legitimate and ethical operaters dragged down by the make a $ at any cost companies and individuals that are trying to jump on the bandwagon.
Will be interesting to see what sort of response comes from this.
Keep up the good work on legitimsing and cleaning up this industry.
- Linda Frieson
February 6th, 2007Lloyd (& Phillip who is clearly also lloyd)
Perhaps this forum could be kept to meaningful discussions rather than your rants and conspiracy theories.
Linda
- Kirk
February 7th, 2007Hi Lloyd
I seem to be failing to in my quest to get a straight answer from you. My only question I have asked so far has been ‘what makes you define one machine a training machine and another a therapy machine’? To rattle on about physics fine, but you never answered the question.
And to say ‘ask the right questions in the right order ‘ is nonsense. I am asking how you are defining the machines in two columns. If I wanted any other answer i would just ask.
I personally do think you operate out of fear, and that’s why you are so evasive. Because you have no answer. You use this definition as a way to slag your competition.
Mikes harsh & immature attitude can only define his lack of ability to construct a decent response. He is obviously and aggressive A type personality like yourself.
- mike Hair
February 7th, 2007I’m sorry Kirk i thought i apoligised for hurting your feelings? may be a hug would help
A note to all…
Read carefully
I voluntarily come here to answer questions from those who seek information about Vibration Training/Therapy.
And will continue to do so.
But I will no longer respond to those people who obviously have other agenda’s or repeat questions already answered ( as per Kirk , this forum has an entire section on what you ask..).
I am sorry guy’s but you stick out like sore thumbs even to the less experienced.
It brings the tone of the entire website down. And will no longer be tolerated by myself. If someone else would like to answers them , be my guest.
- Nicole
August 19th, 2007Hi we have a vibration training studio with 2 fitX machines. We were given about an hours training on the machines when we got them and have never felt totally confident passing on our limited knowledge to our clients. My business partner and I recently visited another studio with fitX machines which put us through an intensive and informative 4 hour “refresher” course. It turns out everything in our fitx manual is wrong - ie FitX says weight must always be on balls of feet. Our new instructor now has us with weight on our heels and explained the hz levels like this: 35hz is best for building bone, 40-45hz is best for muscle toning and strength, 50hz causes a shallow muscle contraction as it is vibrating too fast to cause a complete muscle contraction and is best for massage/ stretches and clients with reduced physical ability or injuries. and 55HZ is the setting for cellulite as it vibrates only into the skin and subcutaneous levels. He’s thrown away our FitX manuals and preprogrammed exercise programs and we now have a basic program of 13 moves which we can intensify by adding dynamic movement, altering position slightly, increasing duration and increasing freq to 45hz. What are your thoughts on this? Are we being given the runaround again? We are led to believe FitX vibes are training as well as therapy machines. With the new shorter but more intense program our clients are experiencing much more effective workouts
September 12th, 2006
Oh ok the gym claims its a ‘training model”.. they also have a few other machines called ‘body pulse’. What do you think of these? (link)