From the Turbosonic rep:
Why TurboSonic? This machine uses no mechanical moving parts to vibrates the training plate. TurboSonic is powered by a patented amplifier system that causes quiet sonic vibrations. Simply stated – there are no moving parts. No sound. And it’s real precise.
TurboSonic can be adjusted manually from 3Hz to 50Hz and the amplitude can be adjusted from 0 to 100 providing the most fragile user to the most athletic person complete control.
TurboSonic also has 7 pre-set auto modes (each sessions is 10 minutes ) 3 tailored for weight loss and 3 are tailored towards strength training. All modes work the core effectively.
If you ever tried a mechanical vibrations platform, you will be blown away on how natural TurboSonic feels to the body. We highly recommend everyone try a TurboSonic before investing into outdated technology. You will not be disappointed!
{ 68 comments… read them below or add one }
I am pretty new to all this technology but my wifes cousin just came out to visit from Sweden and new someone who had the TurboSonic one.
She has had Fibromialga for years please forgive the spelling. Long story short she went on the turbosonic everyday she was in here.
The first day after she had gone on it she said that night was the first time in years she had no pain in her legs going to sleep. She also said she thought she was going to overflow the toilet bowl with horrible smelling urine. She went on it everyday after and said she did not have any pain that she normally does.
Anyway thought I would put in my 2 cents. Technology is pretty cool.
The Turbosonic sounded great and probably works okay but I called them up and the thing costs….are you ready?
$12,000.00!
Just the tax on that is nearly $1000!
I’m doing pretty well, but theres no way I’m spending that much when there are plenty of professional versions that give the same or better results for less. ($7500 for Hypergravity, $9000 (Powerplate/Vibrogym).
Does anyone have experience with any of the top 3 pro-level plates? I’m close to making a decision and any help would be appreciated.
Roger
I am shaking my head how “Turbo Sonic” is trying to market their machine as in the same category as whole body vibrations. In fact, NOT ONE, not even ONE single study on whole body vibrations EVER used sonic waves or sounds. They are totally misleading people to beleive that it is the same thing. Now, I am all for sound therapy, but definitely not for confusing the two therapies and this one in particular is lacking in ANY studies. Sound therapy is something entirely different!
On another note, I will say this… every person I personally have to talked to that tried or had a Power Plate then had tried the Hypergravity said that the Hypergravity personal SMALLER model ($3500) was BETTER or the same as the Power Plate Pro Model ($9000).
And they are made of all steel at the lowest price and made in the USA! On a cool “sort of celebrity sighting” note – I happened to be personally there to witness the Prez of Interscope say he tried them all, since money was no object and he bought the Hypergravity.
People should try for themselves differnt versions to see what suites their needs.
I challenge anyone reading this blog to do a real comparison.
Try to demo each product personally. You will absolutely feel the difference between the Turbosonic and the other machines offered. There is no other like it. TurboSonic is Best in Class! You will immediately feel the difference between sonic vibrations and mechanical vibrations.
And yes, TurboSonic is ideal for therapy and training. This machine can do both!
Demo one and you will see…
So Turbo-Sonic , you are claiming to have tried ALL units available. As that is the only way you could make such a definitive statement like the above. Thats quit a task.
Prove you are not just another ” marketer ” and name the location you have trialed a Vibra-Train ” Sports Bullet ” in.
And Sandy , why would you voluntarily deal with a company like Power-Plate. Do you know what they have done, and continue to do ?
TurboSonic,
It claims to reduce:
* Pain
* Stress
* Fatigue
* Cortisol
* Fat & cellulite
Wow! That is impressive. I’m specifically interested in fat and cellulite reduction. I just have one question. Does it come with 6-minutes abs roller?
I bought a TurboSonic because it got rid of nearly all my visible cellulite (the stuff you don’t have to pinch the skin to see) after less than two months of using it 10 minutes a day. My legs and arms are also noticeably more fit. Plus I’ve had more energy and I feel happier.
The sonic vibrations are not audible; it’s not sound therapy. But the best part is you can run music or healing sounds through the machine’s speakers so that the body vibrations carry the healing waves throughout your body, moving your fluids to these healing sounds. If anyone knows of Imoto’s water experiments, you’ll understand the incredible potential of this to alter consciousness toward health and balance.
Three out of 4 friends who have tried my machine have had significant results the first time–more energy, less pain, swelling that went away. A female friend tried the highest frequency on full volume and said “Oh my God–it’s orgasmic! Who needs a boyfriend?!!” So it’d seem there’s at least one drawback: this machine isn’t so good for procreation of the species.
An amplifier coil has massive limitation. Ok for use in Therapy ( short term usage ) where those limitations will not be a problem.
But cannot induce a time syn-wave ratio for an anaerobic respose ( needed to change a persons BMR ).
I’m with you on this one Lloyd. Turbosonic – Do you have any independent research? Anyone can make claims but research is key.
Sarah…
the research to date on even the oldest units is incomplete and relatively useless to the layman. You have no way of knowing if the tests even took place or what unit was actually used.
The Universities involved to date have let everybody down by playing corperate ” hear no eveil , see no evil ” games and not outing those who mis-use its data.
The problems I had getting the photos of the tests run in German Universities in 2002 was like getting blood out of a stone.
Nadine,
I appreciate your comments as to the Turbosonic and its use as a very expensive sex toy.
But if someone wants to get a WBV unit to actually train on they should remember that there are a whole lot to choose from where the Turbosonic is made-in China/Taiwan.
Here is just a link to a small number of generic vibe platforms that factorys in China churn out then sell to distributors/marketers who slap their names on and resell.
If you want a pseudo WBV unit to use as a sex-toy or foot massager….by all means go with a dime a dozen chinese make. You Go Girl!
For others that serious about training or therapy and are less tacky and more practical…AVOID
http://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/TW-suppliers/Vibration_Exerciser.html
Yours in WBV,
KG
Turbosonic?
Any comments about the exposure to magnetic field? Is it very intensive (magnetic field)?
Could it be regarded as a drawback?
Re amplifier coil systems…
Not ideal correct and it would be very strong , but the exposure should be very limited so it would be hard to prove harm. Also shielding would be very easy to do. I have already developed one myself for hospital units.
I have just started a course of TURBOSONIC and up to now have found it fantastic.I feel more toned and have a lot more energy.I am seriously thinking of buying one – can anyone tell me where I can purchase one?I am in the UK
Not a good place to ask that question. TurboSonics dodgy marketing tactics up till this point has seen it basically booted of this forum.
My eyes blur and hurt after use at my chir. doctor’s office, I feel the positive results discussed, energy, far less pain. Yet is all that bouncing good?
I recently read about horse transporting (I have a horse) and it talked about the neg. effect on the animals, internally, joints, etc. due to bouncing.
Thanks
You will find the amplitude is too high or the Fq too low. What unit are you using ?
Your concerns on vibration exposure is valid and most operator follow ISO guidelines. You will find the animals you mention are being exposed to constant vibrations with no control.
I recently trained on the newest Turbosonic machine. I was impressed how I felt after the training session. Blood circulation could be felt in the legs all the way to my head and arms. I have been on several other lineal machines and to compare them, the Turbosonic will have to remain a good therapeutic machine. 25-30 hertz and up the Turbosonic starts to loose amplitude, at the higher ranges the amplitude feel like it is less than 1mm.
I agree the machine operates almost totally silently. And very smooth operation.
has anyone had any positive bone density experience with turbosonic? or any other machine?
I have permission to release the following details…
Female Born 1971
Diagnosed with Osteopaenia in Lumbar
Department of Medicine
Auckland University Bone Density Scan on 13/12/2006 showed BMD of 1.070 . 9% below average.
Fracture from fall on a boat causes compression fracture in T5, T6, T7. 19/2/2007
Vibration Training + Vibration Therapy on specialized unit with specialized poses. Due to this particular persons personal convictions no bone density drugs where taken.
Note: Re the drugs ,my advice was to follow Doctors orders.
Department Of Medicine
University of Auckland , Bone Density Scan 7/12/2007 showed BMD at 1.136 , and increase of 6.1% on baseline.
It still leaves a 3% inprovement just to reach average BMD and take her out of increased risk for fractures.
Note: Using a standard plate may not give similar results and may even be dangerous. This was controlled , supervised and precise program done on a machine designed for this .
But it should be an example of what will be available in time.
The above can be confirmed at my head office if need be. Name will be censored.
Lloyd, the above is an amazing result, all involved must be very pleased.
The lady is very happy and continues her training+therapy.
Her Doctors is 70 , half asleep , and put on her report that she was doing Vibra-Train but still has no idea what it is.
She is trying to get refered to someone a bit more “active”.
The new Evolution Looks interesting.
They claim to have “fixed” the common problems that Turbosonic seems to be plagued with. I talked to the CEO (used to work for turbosonic) and he seemed very nice and dedicated to making this now USA made product higher quality then the Korean Counterpart. But it still has a pricetag of $12,995.
They are just beginning to ship units out, so time will tell if they deliver what they claim.
Clint Bigham in Los Angeles owns a gym with a Galileo Unit, top of the line Powerplate, Pineapple and Turbosonic. With lots of customer feedback, he prefers the Turbosonic first, but complains about the fact it breaks down every six months. Also, he speaks highly of the Pineapple.
bryant
Yes but I can see a big fight coming.
VibroGym Evolution has been released . They wont be happy .
Oops two companies with same machine names.
I see one of the planned Turbosonics is called Evolution BMS – Evolution BMS is a yoga inspired, low profile intelligent vertical vibration platform ideal for joining of Body, Mind and Spirit.
Is this really the way we want to present machines? While I am all for recognising that mind and body are interrelated units I get a bit anti when Spirit is also said to be affected by an exercise machine. Maybe they are meaning it makes the user feel good but it all sounds so 1960′s.
Just like to clarify I did not write the article at the top of this post .
I just got asked if I was a TurboSonic rep. Never noticed it before.
I used a Turbosonic unit while visiting friends. I was on the machine for 10 minutes and developed visual disturbances which lasted over a week. I have had cataract surgery and have lens implants. I talked with the developer at a trade show and he told me that he had never heard of that type of reaction. He assured me that it was not something that could be related to his machine. I again went on the demo machine for 5 minutes at a low setting and again developed visual issues.Not as severe and lasting a couple of days. I am concerned that people with implants such as pacemakers, artificial knees, hips and of course eye implants/corneal transplants etc. might be at risk.
Turbo-Sonic is not a company we have observed following standard safety practices. In fact quite the opposite.
Eg….They promote high amplitude , lock legged positions .
I think their machine is ok , but they have no idea how to use it.
Note: Even the machines I design could injure people if not used properly.
I have a promotional video where they actually say it works out your “neck and head” better than a treadmill.
I have no idea how you are meant to work out your head ?
I have saved a number of promo vids that I hope are used in court against them in the future..
Eg.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg5SyZsmcow
Communication with them on this forum only resulted in them marketing their product with no answers given . I would love them to face up to the questions we have.
Judi,
Did you hold same pose for 10 minutes and 5 minutes long on the TURBOSONIC? What pose did you do? Vertical vibration platforms are very effective in transmitting the vibration energy to whole body. If one locks the knees while standing on the vibration platform, the vibration will go all the way up to the head and it is quite unpleasant. Basic rule – NEVER LOCK UP KNEES (meaning no full knee extension). With a knee flex pose like light squat, most people will find the vibration acceptable.
However, it is true that few people who are quite sensitive, they may feel dizzy on a vibration platform even in a proper pose and they may not like it. Just like some people like doing treadmill; some people don’t. Some love Yoga; others don’t.
Concerning safety, SAFETY always comes first in doing exercises or sports especially for ordinary people as we are not chasing for medals or good pay, we just want better health. Vibration Training in general speaking are very safe under good supervision.
People with pace-maker meaning having heart problem. Physical exercises are always contra-indication or precaution to these people. Do not forget Vibration Training is just one of physcial exercises. However, for people with mild to moderate cardio-pathologies, Vibration Training is a comparatively safer exercise because it does not work the heart as heavy as other dynamic exercises as all poses in Vibration Training are static and training duration is short. For a very weak person, one can also do Vibration Training by sitting on a chair and set feet on the platform. It can at least work locally on the lower limbs and it helps to promote circulations. Of course, people with pace-maker should consult doctors before doing exercises.
People with hip, knee replacement or any metal implant, they can benefit from Vibration Training as long as the implant is well bonded. So, only the exerciser’s own doctor or theapist can tell if one is suitable for Vibration Training. I would say if doctor or therapist allows this patient to start resistive exercise, Vibration Training is safe for this person.
A safe and effective vibration training relies on both good hardware and software. Software means knowledge. I cannot comment if TURBOSONIC is a good hardware or not. Certainly, its software part is weak. I watched TURBOSONIC’s demo video from the link that Lloyd provided as above. It suggests TURBOSONIC can do facial massage. I can only say “very creative”. It inspires me to think of added value to a vibration training machine, how about putting a basin of water on the platform, put our clothes in and let the mechanical wave to wash the clothes; or to tenderize a piece of raw steak with the vibration platform before cooking…… Hello guys, please do not turn Vibration Training into a joke.
TC
Any hyper gravity users out there. I’ like to hear some pros and cons.
I am a 40 year old man who has a very high metabolism. Gaining weight has always been a problem for me. I heard about the hypergravity machine and decided to do the three free trials at Simple Body Concepts in Red Deer. After going three times, I felt like getting a 1 year membership. The machine is very comfortable to use, and I feel like my muscels are really being worked. I have been going now for 9 weeks and my muscels are growing, my calves,tricepts, quads,lats,chest, everything. It takes 10 minutes each time I go. I also take a suppliment called quick mass, and I have gained 16 pounds of muscel so far,it is amazing and I recomend it to anyone who is tring to better themselves healthwise. The one thing that hyper gravity does not do is cardio, but jogging or swimming can do that.
No viral marketing guys.
Talk about the specs of a machine , not just the name.
I was wondering about the Hypergravity accessory called the “Vibro Stepper”??
It is a stepper that apparently fits their platform.
My question is:
Is doing this sort of stepping while on the plate(assuming it is secured snugly which I do) advantageous? Any drawbacks?
Lloyd- have you considered such an accessory- Would’nt the moving of the stepping motion-even though secured-
negate the effects of the vibration???
It looks interesting-just never seen nor heard of such an application.
Here is the link for that accessory I spoke of above:
http://www.hypergravity.net/accessories.html
It does not fit into my theory of how Vibration Training works best. I require a relaxed static pose to allow the muscle to come under pressure , then none at all , completing the stretch reflex cycle.
Any deliberate movement contradicts this by placing a constant electrical charge into the muscle .
I had thought of applying a stepper on vibration platform but never put it in practice as HYPERGRAVITY do.
I had that idea because WBV is not CV training and my centre offers only WBV and I do not have intention to install other exercising equipments like treadmill. I am devoted to promote and practice WBV but not interested in running a fitness gym. In theory, we can tell our clients to go to other gyms for CV training after doing WBV. In practice, it is very impractical asking someone to go to two different places to complete a fitness training program.
My idea would be letting an exerciser to do a standard WBV program for stength training. After the WBV, let the exerciser to do the stepper on vibration platform as a CV exercise. I would believe the vibration could enhance the effect of stepping exercise.
I guess HYPERGRAVITY could be thinking the same as I did.
I have not put this idea in practice for two reasons:
1) Most steppers are China-made cheap ones. I have doubt if they could stand the impact of the vibration.
2) Safety concern. Since the stepper is not fixed on the vibration platform, it may move and cause danger to the exerciser.
If the VibroStepper of HYPERGRAVITY can be fixed on its platform, it is worth a test on its effect for CV training.
TC
Ladies and Gents,
Let me clarify a few things about the TurboSonic. It’s not sonic. It does not use sound. It’s a plate that you stand on that vibrates. There is displacement, and hence *moving parts*. C’mon people, put aside the marketing BS and use a little common sense.
The whole “Sonic” nonsense is a combination of branding, “lost in translation” from Korean to English and the fact that the TurboSonic uses a drive system that is similar to what is used in high power audio amplifiers and stadium speakers.
Cheers
Andy
Hi Bryant,
I dont know who you spoke to because we dont have a CEO. If you want straight answers about the Evolution, please talk to me. I designed it, built it and set up the production facility.
I would not say that we have fixed the problems with the TS. Weve implemented a completely different design that avoids the same pitfalls. Weve followed a formal engineering approach and were anal about quality. The only thing in similar is that it uses a linear motor. (The TS uses a voice coil actuator, we use a moving magnet actuator). Thats where the similarities end. We use a completely different amplifier technology, an OEM power supply, and a different mechanical coupling arrangement for the plate and the motor (so that we can have the plate very close to the ground).
Let me reiterate what Lloyd has already said elsewhere on this forum. Different machines produce different results. There is an enormous difference between pivotal, 3D and lineal machines. This is also true within each category. For instance, the Evolution uses a linear motor that is coupled directly to the plate to produce lineal motion. This results in an entirely different type of vibration than a rotating motor.
Feel free to contact me at andy at vibrahs dot com. I’m also happy to answer questions about the technology on this forum.
Cheers
Andy
Guru021 and others re magnetic fields…
Some basics: All electric motors produce force through the interaction of opposing magnetic fields. So for every motor there is always a magnetic field and hence there is always some flux leakage.
In any motor (linear or rotational), the magnetic circuit is designed to result in the highest possible efficiency. So the leakage flux (waste) is minimized as a consequence of good design. Therefore the residual magnetic field around the motor is very small and there is no change in the external field during operation.
For the Evolution and the TurboSonic, a small piece of steel has minimal attraction to the outside of the motor, but even this minimal field is eliminated once it is inside the steel enclosure.
Put in context, there is less magnetic field emanating from an Evolution or TS than a fridge magnet.
Cheers
Andy
Guru021 and others re magnetic fields…
Some basics: All electric motors produce force through the interaction of opposing magnetic fields. So for every motor there is always magnetic field present and hence there is always some flux leakage.
In any motor (linear or rotational), the magnetic circuit is designed to result in the highest possible efficiency. So the leakage flux (waste) is minimized as a consequence of good design.
The residual field around the motor is very small and there is no change in the external magnetic field during operation.
For the Evolution and the TurboSonic, a small piece of steel has minimal attraction to the outside of the motor, but even this minimal field is eliminated once it is inside the steel enclosure.
Put in context, there is less magnetic field emanating from an Evolution or TS than a fridge magnet.
Cheers
Andy
Hi Lloyd,
Mate, I’m responding to your comments of coil systems having “massive limitation”.
Every technology has *inherent* limitations. That’s all. And the technology selection process weighs up these limitations against the design goals. Limitations are addressed through good design.
An inherent limitation of a moving magnet actuator (or coil system) is that it is inefficient. So to produce the same amount of force at the plate, you maybe need 5 times more power. And its physically bigger, and hence more expensive. What this means is that the machines costs a bit more, weighs a bit more, you need a larger power supply (extra ~$60) and the device uses more electricity (about $0.02 cents for 10 minute session).
When I designed the Evolution none of the above factors were design constraints of sufficient magnitude to eliminate the use of a moving magnet actuator.
Now for the advantages:
When used in conjunction with a displacement sensor and microprocessor, the vibrating plate can be made to do almost anything. It can be made obey the mechanical principles of a spring or a shock absorber. It can be made to produce sinusoidal, repeat parabolic (constant acceleration), triangular or any other wave pattern. Intensity and frequency is infinitely variable within the resolution of the displacement sensor.
In other words, the movement of the plate is not locked in place by virtue of the mechanical design. Furthermore, by sensing the current into the motor in combination with the displacement, its possible to detect obstacles to the movement of the plate and build in safety features that prevent harm.
Its future proof. Whatever we learn over the following years about whole body vibration can be integrated back into these machines via a software upgrade using a USB stick.
Im not saying that one system is better and another. That would be naive. Every product has design goals and an envelope of constraints. For the Evolution, cost was not a factor; I wanted to have the freedom to upgrade the behavior of the plate. I was building a therapeutic device, so safety was important. And I wanted to satisfy a broad range of users, so I needed the flexibility.
If these goals where different, I have no doubt that I would have come up with a different design.
I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.
Cheers
Andy
To clarify…
My comment was only in regards to coil technology used in “training” and its suitability in gym/obesity work , as at the time TurboSonic was using deliberatly misleading advertising trying to compare its units with others. Doing justice to neither.
Your system in fact has bio-mechanical values needed for the completion of certain safety functions in Therapy.
Note: I designed Training units in multiple formats in 2004 using a coil and/or opposing magnet system but could not justify the cost involved in the dimensions I wanted.
I would have shared the positive of their system with TurboSonic if they had been more up front , and sorry I dont believe all the confusion was a ” lost in translation” problem.
They were being dodgy and aggressive , with lots of viral marketing going on as well.
Lloyd,
Thanks for the clarification. No doubt, a linear motor is an expensive topology and it’s difficult to warrant this approach for a workout class device. In principle though there is nothing to prevent one from doing it. As it stands right now, the linear motor system on the Evolution develops around 1500N of force – enough to lift most people into the air. More force = bigger motor.
Cheers
Andy
Andy
The Tustin Wellness Clinic in California, when evaluating different vibration platforms to offer their patients, they started looking at the effect workouts in different platforms had a on the blood of their patients at a cell level, so they started doing Live Blood Cell Analysis after a 10 min workout on different machines (http://www.tustinwellness.com/turbosonic_vibration_therapy.htm).
What they found out was that Turbosonic machines had a very positive blood alkalizing effect while other (either cheaper & more expensive) machines didnt (http://www.takechargeofyourhealth.biz/live_blood_analysis_comparison.htm).
The reason for this blood alkalizing effect being so important to me is that 20 years ago I was given chemo & radiotherapy and now Im suffering their secondary effects. Im only 43 years old, and basically, my body is breaking down. Now, Im told Ive got an acid overload in my body due to all that crap that I was given (YES, they did get me out of that problem back then Hodgkin stage 3.a? but now theyre sort of coming back requesting their price) and being able to workout on a platform which has this blood alkalizing effect is CRITICAL for me.
Andy, if I understand correctly (English is far from being my first language) your machine is an evolution from the Turbosonic, and my question is this: does your machine produce the same blood alkalizing effect as supposedly the Turbosonic does?
Lloyd, how about yours? Do you now of any independent vibration platform study/research which focuses on this particular blood alkalizing effect? I mean, how about putting people on different machines (Hypergravity, Vibrogym, etc.) for about 10 min. and doing a Live Blood Cell Analysis after that? A variation of this being having a look at a blood cell level? at working out on the same machine on different frequencies
I was about to buy a VG Evolution platform but making it sure it has this blood alkalizing effect before I invest on a platform is very important to me.
THANKS A LOT IN ADVANCE,
Iñaki
Sorry to be the one to burst your bubble….
Vibration seperates and stops blood from clotting at basically any Fq , no matter how it is applied to the body. Read this older test from Europe…
http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:17886368
They did not have a Turbo-Sonic.
Vibration is applied to blood when it is stored to stop it from “clumping” together and no particular way of producing vibrations has ever been shown to be more effective than another. So testing every unit available for this short lived effect would be a waste of time.
Note: This seperation effect in no way shows the Ph level of the blood has changed. Only blood tests can do this .
About the comparision tests Turbo-Sonic said they did. Why not name the other machine ? I suspect it was Pivotal as they name the Fq as 5Hz – 15Hz. No Lineal platform besides Turbo-Sonic went so low at the time .
Note: Pivotal units do not produce a direct vibration as such to the entire body so would not be expected to work exactly the same on the blood.
I have read all of the above (in particular information relevant to the TurboSonic). We fully intend to correct all erroneous information and provide answers to the many questions which were answered incorrectly. I have personally sold almost 100 of these machines (many of which were sold to Medical Doctors, physical therapists, chiropractors, etc). They did extensive research on their own before making the decision to purchase a Turbo.
Here are some quick facts which need correction:
TurboSonic is made in Korea, not China.
The CEO of the Evolution never worked for TurboSonic corporate. He was a dealer.
The Evolution MBS is not made by TurboSonic. They have nothing to do with it. TurboSonic only makes the Deluxe, Professional, and X7. The marketers of Evolution continue to use TurboSonic’s registered trademarks hidden in the meta tag code on their site to lure people in. Not only is that illegal, but tacky, and a desperate measures to take a tiny percentage of Turbo’s market share.
The Turbo isn’t sending “sound waves” into the body and they do not claim it does. It uses a sound coil (just like a speaker) to deliver a vertical movement using electromagnetic coils. One of the coils is connected to the plate. When the circuit board sends a signal, the center sound coil moves up and down. The way in which vibration is created is important. TurboSonic generates a pure vertical (up and down) motion. Other designs may produce a vibration which delivers a Z coordinate movement (up and down) as well as X coordinate (lateral movement). This multi-plane movement can produce a stress response by the body. Studies are being done to prove this.
The other statements made which are wrong will be addressed shortly. They are being reviewed by individuals with medical backgrounds.
PS. Of the almost 100 units I’ve personally sold, I’ve had zero returns or complaints. At this price level, people return things that do not produce results. Power fuses may blow if the user does not provide ample amperage (and that’s what the fuses are supposed to do). They are protecting the hardware.
We dont trust Turbo-Sonic for multiple reasons …..
(1) The deliberate mis-marketing of the product and its direct comparision to workout units has rubbed a few people up the wrong way.
(2) The spamming of forums from sales staff pretending to be happy customers ( now thats tacky ).
(3) Saying all other systems are “outdated” , when in fact other designers choose different technology for very valid reasons.
(4) Telling the public it is patented .
(5) Statements like…
“Even Madonna recently switched her PowerPlate for a TurboSonic.”
“Professional athletes and players are rapidly crossing over to TurboSonic. The only regret celebrities and athletes have to say about whole body vibration training and therapy is that they wished they hadn’t purchased a mechanical device first. They could have saved a lot of money if TurboSonic had been available.”
Which is absolute crap and you know it.
I welcome a change in these marketing tactics , but you will need to do some work to win us over.
Here are a few questions for Turbo-Sonic to get the ball rolling…
(a) You clearly state on your site that mechanical is inferior to coil systems. But all 48 studies on your site you use to promote VT are from mechanical units. Please explain as this looks more than slightly hypocritical.
(b) If all exercises are done by just standing on the machine , how does it influence upper body strength as is claimed ?
(c) Is Turbo-Sonic still claiming their machine is a Training unit as well as Therapy.
Telling people that standing lock legged on a unit is fine if the machine has a Therapy value. But without adding this should never be done on a Training machine is setting people up for injury.
I hope you get back to us , because sorting this kind of thing out is exactly how this forum becomes its most usefull for everybody.
I have a few questions also. I don’t know much about TurboSonic so if the questions seem basic I apologise.
1. In FAQ Why is the definition of “Vibration Training” stated as if the term belongs to TurboSonic when it is a generic term?
2. Why is heart valve disorders considered to be a contra-indication. (people with these disorders play sport – dependant on the severity of condition I guess). Is there something about the nature of TurboSonic that specifically excludes or possibly excludes people like me?
3. In your comparison with other Vibration platforms, the method of use for TurboSonic is “Standing Upright” compared with “Various Required” for two other platforms yet in the FAQ, Q.9 States: “Full-body workouts, consisting of movements and positions designed to train the entire body, can be done on the TurboSonic”
I find this confusing and would like it explained Thanks
I have already posted a similar question on another section of this website, but it think the turbosonic rep would probably be the best person to answer my questions. I have read from various places, including the Hypergravity website, that hertz under 25 are dangerous for your organs. They site a specific study from the Journal of Biomechanics for proof of this knowledge. Please explain to me why you are selling a product that could be deleterious to people’s health. I have been using the turbosonic for a year now at a wellness center, and I have achieved wonderful results from it. However, I do not want to put myself at a serious health risk. I am very upset by this information that I have just discovered.
Thank you,
Liska
I will give you an unbiased answer , and hopefully it will explain some things. This only discusses exposure to certain Fqs , not exposure time as that is a different subject.
You are right….
Fqs of 5Hz-30Hz with lineal vibration has been shown in ISO tests to resonate strongly with everything from the eyes to internal organs. The exact reasons for this are complicated and far too much to go into here.
I will be writing an article on the “Great Fq Debate” in time.
The basics…
Peoples concerns were that unnecessary energy being transfered into these body parts could disrupt their function.
Eg..Retina detachment for the eyes , breakdown of lumbar for the back.
The internal organs could in theory go either way , be disrupted or stimulate higher function ( a popular Asian theory is stimulation = higher function ).
Some of us believe its best to be safe than sorry and keep away from anything that may be problematic. Some Fq are just plain uncomfortable and drive customers away anyway.
Note: Some companies use any Fq their machine can actually do with abandon and some like Power Plate have lied about what their machines are actually doing , which takes away your ability to choose a system you believe is safe.
You will find most responsable developers put g-force restrictions in place to cut down the chances of injury , to allow a compromise in what they believe may be good for you and still be safe .
The fact remains that alot of our precautions are based on theory , but then so is how vibration training works , I think a good rule would be to go with a company that openly discusses these issues , and can give good reasons behind their own safety practices.
Hi Lyoyd i have heard of machines that have vibrating handle bars.My question is are they of any true benifit and which machines actually have them.Also planter fascitus a problem with vibration training?any help will be gratefully appreciated.
Vibrating handle bars are the only way you can truly use gravity as a constant and get proper transference of vibrations into the arms for certain poses. That is why I developed them. Besides the Vibra-Train standard , only HyperGravity has a version on its disability unit.
I am sure companies will copy this idea in the future. but most seem to be still stuck trying to build the basic negative response platforms of a decent size that actaully work and dont break.
Straps are a poor cheap alternative .
Plantar fasciitis …
It can be irritated by Vibration Training if incorrect footwear is used. Slightly raised arche support is needed , in which case it becomes effective and safe.
Have you manufacturers no tact?– Getting studies from a University is easy and they are always ready to do it for free.
1. Write and submit proposal about study. 2. Provide the equipment in a timely manner. 3. Write a contract that authorizes them and you to publish all results good or bad. 4. Be there with your knowlege and expertise– leave the money signs in your eyes at home because that stuff doesn’t fly with scholars.
5. Follow up- Many respondends are students with school breaks and exams- push deadlines and they will get it done.
6. Contribute back to the school that helped you– Donate equipment or volunteer time as a classroom speaker to show your gratitude.
Those of you who are writing about how hard it is to get a study published probably never actually tried for a study or are creating excuses as to why you don’t have any independent studies.
Trust me if I can do it as a new small company, you guys from Hypergravity and Turbosonic should have plenty.
I can only go by my experience to date but this is what academics have shown us …..
(1) Unethical/dishonest and only out for future grant money ( witnessed on this site ).
(2) Unwilling to listen/learn from the developers themselves.
(3) Lazy and lacking background research.
(4) Every tests they want to do is a repeat of a already published positive test from overseas ( basically a form of plagiarism in my opinion ).
The amount of time they spend fooling people into thinking they are remotely knowledgeable about a subject they have only read about is incredible and as a result have held back our industry for years.
And sorry I don’t years to teach them the basics.
I have had top academics say ……..
” this technology cant work as its no aerobic ”
“there is no such thing as an involuntary reflex ”
“what’s the difference between Pivotal and Lineal ?”
” can we jump up and down on your machines ?”
And these are academics who wanted machines off me ?
Until I find one with a better attitude towards safety ,significance in design and research relevent to my concerns, I wont be touching them , and only marketers with the same low standards and self serving goals would deal with them.
That’s my 2 cents worth.
Lloyd,
I will agree to an extent. One University I met with was eager to meet and then dropped the bomb on me with a price tag. I said that I would only help if they did a pilot study proving the value of a future more in depth study. Then I would use my alumni association to submit the grant proposals for me thus funding a full blown bone density research project.
On the flip side– not all schools have been corrupted by the almighty dollar sign. One school here has been doing incredible research on WBV for the same reasons we are pushing business ethics. Like us they believe we have a very useful tool in our possession that may offer relief from uncured illnesses and degenerative joint damage caused by modern fitness equipment. Its a school of Kinesiology that has a very open mind and a full lab ready for testing. All of their equipment was donated or already purchased through grants. It makes more sense for them to test my products and give their PhD students a chance to interact with tomorrows technology than to haggle for a grant that may take years to get.
I wrote a short yet comprehensive contract that lists all of the testing I want performed. All requests are for honest results, no skews/ no gimmicks–results good or bad will be published. If my products have potential to harm people, I sure as hell want to know about it. If WBV has the potential to help, I will do everything in my power to make sure that it gets into the hands of those that need it.
Additionally, I don’t like being bound to out-dated contra indications- I have taken my machines to orthopedic surgeons (I used to do Orthopedic DME sales for their patients out of surgery). One thing you must keep in mind is that some of these contra indications for WBV were created over 20 years ago. Medicine and DME has come so far since then, how can we not question the advancements and apply them here? So I took an MVPRO to one surgeon who put his post op total knee and hip replacement patients through a training regimen. I noted that I did not recommend it because it may compromise the structural integrity of their artificial joints. Really, I was just adhering to old contra-indications. I just didn’t one any one hurt on my watch. His response I installed and helped design these joints, let me be the one to make that decision. The verdict: Some new joints can hold up to the vibrations but only at the lower speeds (This was done on a pivotal platform so I have no idea how this holds up for lineal WBV).
My point here is that we should stop wasting our time bashing each other for shady business practices and work together to figure out all of the uncertainties. Our progress would be so much faster if we worked together to find a solution, not market false claims that make WBV look bad.
THE GOAL: Get enough studies performed to get these devices approved as FDA class 2 devices. Then let the medical community take it from there and find all of its beneficial applications. Forget the money!if we can all get together and do that then the money will come to us later.
I am proposing a joint effort- Who wants to be a part of it?
Lloyd,
Don’t get discouraged– There are still people who say the holocaust never or couldn’t have happened. These same ignorant fu-ks have probably never traveled the world to see outside of their own self righteous convictions.They continue to doubt despite the concentration camps that are now museums and video footage from Nazi archives that prove otherwise.
The good news is that the rest of the world knows better. We will always have skeptics, haters, and doubters. Yet for every one of them we get 1,000 people that see and feel results from WBV and say other wise. That Lloyd is why you have poured your heart and soul into this. You motivated me to stay strong and have faith in our efforts– don’t get bitter on me now.
I agree that some scholars are so cuaght up in their titles that they forget what they got that title for. Its not status or prestige but to look at everything from a scientific approach. Some people just dont know how to seaprate their personal opinions from their professional ones. I thrive off of thier doubt because I hate being told Im wrong when I know otherwise. Get your head back in the game!
Jon H…
I think you misunderstand my posts. I put that negative stuff out there for 3 reasons…
(1) Warn the consumer of these tactics used by marketers and researcher to keep themselves employed.
(2) Fire a warning shot across researchers bows that we will expose them publically when they compromise our industry.
(3) Let researchers who are not like that know they can approach us and their work wont be skewed for marketing.
I believe there are plenty of honest scientist out there who are tired of the political bullshit that goes on in universities. I wish for the IVTRB to become a beacon for them.
I am slowly pulling the pieces together now , and when it happens it will go off like a bomb. Just be patient.
Readers…..
(1) Vibration does not equal Vibration Training.
(2) Movement is not automatically “training”
Here is my main concern with TurboSonic….
They preach that all you have to do to get all the benefits reported from Vibration Training is vibrate the muscle. They do this by getting you to stand on the plate lock legged and let the natural resonance of the body “jiggle” the muscle. They record the optimum jiggle through EMG activity and claim its “training” the muscle ?
A quote from deep in their site…..
..vibration treatment with different Fqs elicits muscle activation (EMG) of various body parts. Therefore it can be suggested that vibration treatment induces muscle activation and therefore muscle training ”
Note: An EMG will go off if I simple shake the body part being tested.
They constantly tell people other devices that use motors or higher Fqs are dangerous but use published studies done on them to say how great it can be ?
The whole thing stinks !!!
Note: TurboSonic should increase circulation , bone density and other therapy values but its not ‘Training” by any stretch.
I have other marketing issues with them about claims they have had on their site at various times I have recorded, I will address those properly in the future when all the worst companies get listed together on one page.
Help
What vibration machine is good?
So many different reviews
Has there been any comparisons done by consumers with their results…
Sharon….
“What vibration machine is good?”
I think you are going to have to be a little more descriptive than that.
Its like saying.. ” What car is good ?”
Read a few of the articles under “topics” at the top of the page that refer to what questions you want answered.
If you dont find the exact answers you need get back to us . By then you will know exactly what you are looking for and we can help.
Start with this one…….
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2009/01/whole-body-vibration-just-like-buying-a-car
Then this…….
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/05/choosing-a-vibration-machine-for-home
And then this one at least…
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2009/01/vibration-training-vs-vibration-therapy
From that you should be able to know what you want/can get/afford and we can help narrow it down for you depending in what country you live in etc… ( something else you didnt mention )
And no , no comparisions done yet that are not marketing scams.