The TurboSonic
August 18, 2006 by Site Administrator
Filed under INDUSTRY
From the Turbosonic rep:
Why TurboSonic? This machine uses no mechanical moving parts to vibrates the training plate. TurboSonic is powered by a patented amplifier system that causes quiet sonic vibrations. Simply stated – there are no moving parts. No sound. And it’s real precise.
TurboSonic can be adjusted manually from 3Hz to 50Hz and the amplitude can be adjusted from 0 to 100 providing the most fragile user to the most athletic person complete control.
TurboSonic also has 7 pre-set auto modes (each sessions is 10 minutes ) 3 tailored for weight loss and 3 are tailored towards strength training. All modes work the core effectively.
If you ever tried a mechanical vibrations platform, you will be blown away on how natural TurboSonic feels to the body. We highly recommend everyone try a TurboSonic before investing into outdated technology. You will not be disappointed!
We dont trust Turbo-Sonic for multiple reasons …..
(1) The deliberate mis-marketing of the product and its direct comparision to workout units has rubbed a few people up the wrong way.
(2) The spamming of forums from sales staff pretending to be happy customers ( now thats tacky ).
(3) Saying all other systems are “outdated” , when in fact other designers choose different technology for very valid reasons.
(4) Telling the public it is patented .
(5) Statements like…
“Even Madonna recently switched her PowerPlate for a TurboSonic.”
“Professional athletes and players are rapidly crossing over to TurboSonic. The only regret celebrities and athletes have to say about whole body vibration training and therapy is that they wished they hadn’t purchased a mechanical device first. They could have saved a lot of money if TurboSonic had been available.”
Which is absolute crap and you know it.
I welcome a change in these marketing tactics , but you will need to do some work to win us over.
Here are a few questions for Turbo-Sonic to get the ball rolling…
(a) You clearly state on your site that mechanical is inferior to coil systems. But all 48 studies on your site you use to promote VT are from mechanical units. Please explain as this looks more than slightly hypocritical.
(b) If all exercises are done by just standing on the machine , how does it influence upper body strength as is claimed ?
(c) Is Turbo-Sonic still claiming their machine is a Training unit as well as Therapy.
Telling people that standing lock legged on a unit is fine if the machine has a Therapy value. But without adding this should never be done on a Training machine is setting people up for injury.
I hope you get back to us , because sorting this kind of thing out is exactly how this forum becomes its most usefull for everybody.
I have a few questions also. I don’t know much about TurboSonic so if the questions seem basic I apologise.
1. In FAQ Why is the definition of “Vibration Training” stated as if the term belongs to TurboSonic when it is a generic term?
2. Why is heart valve disorders considered to be a contra-indication. (people with these disorders play sport – dependant on the severity of condition I guess). Is there something about the nature of TurboSonic that specifically excludes or possibly excludes people like me?
3. In your comparison with other Vibration platforms, the method of use for TurboSonic is “Standing Upright” compared with “Various Required” for two other platforms yet in the FAQ, Q.9 States: “Full-body workouts, consisting of movements and positions designed to train the entire body, can be done on the TurboSonic”
I find this confusing and would like it explained Thanks
I have already posted a similar question on another section of this website, but it think the turbosonic rep would probably be the best person to answer my questions. I have read from various places, including the Hypergravity website, that hertz under 25 are dangerous for your organs. They site a specific study from the Journal of Biomechanics for proof of this knowledge. Please explain to me why you are selling a product that could be deleterious to people’s health. I have been using the turbosonic for a year now at a wellness center, and I have achieved wonderful results from it. However, I do not want to put myself at a serious health risk. I am very upset by this information that I have just discovered.
Thank you,
Liska
I will give you an unbiased answer , and hopefully it will explain some things. This only discusses exposure to certain Fqs , not exposure time as that is a different subject.
You are right….
Fqs of 5Hz-30Hz with lineal vibration has been shown in ISO tests to resonate strongly with everything from the eyes to internal organs. The exact reasons for this are complicated and far too much to go into here.
I will be writing an article on the “Great Fq Debate” in time.
The basics…
Peoples concerns were that unnecessary energy being transfered into these body parts could disrupt their function.
Eg..Retina detachment for the eyes , breakdown of lumbar for the back.
The internal organs could in theory go either way , be disrupted or stimulate higher function ( a popular Asian theory is stimulation = higher function ).
Some of us believe its best to be safe than sorry and keep away from anything that may be problematic. Some Fq are just plain uncomfortable and drive customers away anyway.
Note: Some companies use any Fq their machine can actually do with abandon and some like Power Plate have lied about what their machines are actually doing , which takes away your ability to choose a system you believe is safe.
You will find most responsable developers put g-force restrictions in place to cut down the chances of injury , to allow a compromise in what they believe may be good for you and still be safe .
The fact remains that alot of our precautions are based on theory , but then so is how vibration training works , I think a good rule would be to go with a company that openly discusses these issues , and can give good reasons behind their own safety practices.
Hi Lyoyd i have heard of machines that have vibrating handle bars.My question is are they of any true benifit and which machines actually have them.Also planter fascitus a problem with vibration training?any help will be gratefully appreciated.
Vibrating handle bars are the only way you can truly use gravity as a constant and get proper transference of vibrations into the arms for certain poses. That is why I developed them. Besides the Vibra-Train standard , only HyperGravity has a version on its disability unit.
I am sure companies will copy this idea in the future. but most seem to be still stuck trying to build the basic negative response platforms of a decent size that actaully work and dont break.
Straps are a poor cheap alternative .
Plantar fasciitis …
It can be irritated by Vibration Training if incorrect footwear is used. Slightly raised arche support is needed , in which case it becomes effective and safe.
Have you manufacturers no tact?– Getting studies from a University is easy and they are always ready to do it for free.
1. Write and submit proposal about study. 2. Provide the equipment in a timely manner. 3. Write a contract that authorizes them and you to publish all results good or bad. 4. Be there with your knowlege and expertise– leave the money signs in your eyes at home because that stuff doesn’t fly with scholars.
5. Follow up- Many respondends are students with school breaks and exams- push deadlines and they will get it done.
6. Contribute back to the school that helped you– Donate equipment or volunteer time as a classroom speaker to show your gratitude.
Those of you who are writing about how hard it is to get a study published probably never actually tried for a study or are creating excuses as to why you don’t have any independent studies.
Trust me if I can do it as a new small company, you guys from Hypergravity and Turbosonic should have plenty.
I can only go by my experience to date but this is what academics have shown us …..
(1) Unethical/dishonest and only out for future grant money ( witnessed on this site ).
(2) Unwilling to listen/learn from the developers themselves.
(3) Lazy and lacking background research.
(4) Every tests they want to do is a repeat of a already published positive test from overseas ( basically a form of plagiarism in my opinion ).
The amount of time they spend fooling people into thinking they are remotely knowledgeable about a subject they have only read about is incredible and as a result have held back our industry for years.
And sorry I don’t years to teach them the basics.
I have had top academics say ……..
” this technology cant work as its no aerobic ”
“there is no such thing as an involuntary reflex ”
“what’s the difference between Pivotal and Lineal ?”
” can we jump up and down on your machines ?”
And these are academics who wanted machines off me ?
Until I find one with a better attitude towards safety ,significance in design and research relevent to my concerns, I wont be touching them , and only marketers with the same low standards and self serving goals would deal with them.
That’s my 2 cents worth.
Lloyd,
I will agree to an extent. One University I met with was eager to meet and then dropped the bomb on me with a price tag. I said that I would only help if they did a pilot study proving the value of a future more in depth study. Then I would use my alumni association to submit the grant proposals for me thus funding a full blown bone density research project.
On the flip side– not all schools have been corrupted by the almighty dollar sign. One school here has been doing incredible research on WBV for the same reasons we are pushing business ethics. Like us they believe we have a very useful tool in our possession that may offer relief from uncured illnesses and degenerative joint damage caused by modern fitness equipment. Its a school of Kinesiology that has a very open mind and a full lab ready for testing. All of their equipment was donated or already purchased through grants. It makes more sense for them to test my products and give their PhD students a chance to interact with tomorrows technology than to haggle for a grant that may take years to get.
I wrote a short yet comprehensive contract that lists all of the testing I want performed. All requests are for honest results, no skews/ no gimmicks–results good or bad will be published. If my products have potential to harm people, I sure as hell want to know about it. If WBV has the potential to help, I will do everything in my power to make sure that it gets into the hands of those that need it.
Additionally, I don’t like being bound to out-dated contra indications- I have taken my machines to orthopedic surgeons (I used to do Orthopedic DME sales for their patients out of surgery). One thing you must keep in mind is that some of these contra indications for WBV were created over 20 years ago. Medicine and DME has come so far since then, how can we not question the advancements and apply them here? So I took an MVPRO to one surgeon who put his post op total knee and hip replacement patients through a training regimen. I noted that I did not recommend it because it may compromise the structural integrity of their artificial joints. Really, I was just adhering to old contra-indications. I just didn’t one any one hurt on my watch. His response I installed and helped design these joints, let me be the one to make that decision. The verdict: Some new joints can hold up to the vibrations but only at the lower speeds (This was done on a pivotal platform so I have no idea how this holds up for lineal WBV).
My point here is that we should stop wasting our time bashing each other for shady business practices and work together to figure out all of the uncertainties. Our progress would be so much faster if we worked together to find a solution, not market false claims that make WBV look bad.
THE GOAL: Get enough studies performed to get these devices approved as FDA class 2 devices. Then let the medical community take it from there and find all of its beneficial applications. Forget the money!if we can all get together and do that then the money will come to us later.
I am proposing a joint effort- Who wants to be a part of it?
Lloyd,
Don’t get discouraged– There are still people who say the holocaust never or couldn’t have happened. These same ignorant fu-ks have probably never traveled the world to see outside of their own self righteous convictions.They continue to doubt despite the concentration camps that are now museums and video footage from Nazi archives that prove otherwise.
The good news is that the rest of the world knows better. We will always have skeptics, haters, and doubters. Yet for every one of them we get 1,000 people that see and feel results from WBV and say other wise. That Lloyd is why you have poured your heart and soul into this. You motivated me to stay strong and have faith in our efforts– don’t get bitter on me now.
I agree that some scholars are so cuaght up in their titles that they forget what they got that title for. Its not status or prestige but to look at everything from a scientific approach. Some people just dont know how to seaprate their personal opinions from their professional ones. I thrive off of thier doubt because I hate being told Im wrong when I know otherwise. Get your head back in the game!
Jon H…
I think you misunderstand my posts. I put that negative stuff out there for 3 reasons…
(1) Warn the consumer of these tactics used by marketers and researcher to keep themselves employed.
(2) Fire a warning shot across researchers bows that we will expose them publically when they compromise our industry.
(3) Let researchers who are not like that know they can approach us and their work wont be skewed for marketing.
I believe there are plenty of honest scientist out there who are tired of the political bullshit that goes on in universities. I wish for the IVTRB to become a beacon for them.
I am slowly pulling the pieces together now , and when it happens it will go off like a bomb. Just be patient.
Readers…..
(1) Vibration does not equal Vibration Training.
(2) Movement is not automatically “training”
Here is my main concern with TurboSonic….
They preach that all you have to do to get all the benefits reported from Vibration Training is vibrate the muscle. They do this by getting you to stand on the plate lock legged and let the natural resonance of the body “jiggle” the muscle. They record the optimum jiggle through EMG activity and claim its “training” the muscle ?
A quote from deep in their site…..
..vibration treatment with different Fqs elicits muscle activation (EMG) of various body parts. Therefore it can be suggested that vibration treatment induces muscle activation and therefore muscle training ”
Note: An EMG will go off if I simple shake the body part being tested.
They constantly tell people other devices that use motors or higher Fqs are dangerous but use published studies done on them to say how great it can be ?
The whole thing stinks !!!
Note: TurboSonic should increase circulation , bone density and other therapy values but its not ‘Training” by any stretch.
I have other marketing issues with them about claims they have had on their site at various times I have recorded, I will address those properly in the future when all the worst companies get listed together on one page.
Help
What vibration machine is good?
So many different reviews
Has there been any comparisons done by consumers with their results…
Sharon….
“What vibration machine is good?”
I think you are going to have to be a little more descriptive than that.
Its like saying.. ” What car is good ?”
Read a few of the articles under “topics” at the top of the page that refer to what questions you want answered.
If you dont find the exact answers you need get back to us . By then you will know exactly what you are looking for and we can help.
Start with this one…….
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2009/01/whole-body-vibration-just-like-buying-a-car
Then this…….
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2007/05/choosing-a-vibration-machine-for-home
And then this one at least…
http://www.vibrationtraining.net/2009/01/vibration-training-vs-vibration-therapy
From that you should be able to know what you want/can get/afford and we can help narrow it down for you depending in what country you live in etc… ( something else you didnt mention )
And no , no comparisions done yet that are not marketing scams.