The Fit-Vibe
Jennifer asks:
I’m a trainer in switzerland and I originally bought a power plate in January but after 6 weeks of use it blew up and was sent back to the factory. They couldn’t fix it so they sent me a new one which I turned around and sold. I am now using the fit vibe and I think its working very well for me and my clients. The easy train card system is a nice addition that I use as well. You have a lot of knowledge and I’m intrigued by your machines. What do you think of the fit vibe model and how does it compare to yours? I’m doing so well with the concept that I may have to invest in more machines.
The Fit-Vibe is a good unit. The company has a good reputation and is not prone to over-hyping it product. One of the better professional machines available.
Now saying that , its not fair to compare the Fit-Vibe with ours. My machines are designed as commercial units to run a Vibra-train studio with. I have 5 different models at the moment,
To understand the difference i will explain. Say you buy 10 good quality proffesional units , they cost $10,000 each. You build up a good business , but after a few years you need to replace them (2-5 yrs depending on model) Thats another $100,000 you need to inject just to stay open.
And thats not even going into the “competition” factor where someone can set up opposite you with the same units.
What i sell is a “license” that gives you, and you alone, (in an area), access to my machines to run your business with, for a VERY long time. It also gives you sole access to all future machines designed by Vibration Training Ltd ( my other company).
What I am trying to offer is some form of protection. Not just a machine.
Written by Lloyd Shaw on August 27th, 2006
49 Comments
- Lloyd Shaw
September 1st, 2006Elite-Fitness is bringing in the Fit-Vibe ( to N.Z. ) so contact them for the exact prices. They may even be leasing them. But remember it is only one unit, and is a negative response pad only. So will be limited.
- SK
December 7th, 2006Who is it that answered Jennifer’s question above about the Fit Vibe unit? What machines are they offering and who do I contact for more information? I like the idea of having the licence! Thanks for your response.
I am the owner and product designer for Vibra-Train. As I do not sell units to the public ( I only sell whole commercial studios ), I often give advice on product placement and quality for those looking for independent/prof use.
The machine I was commenting on is distributed by Elite-Fitness N.Z. Ltd.
They are offering the Fit-Vibe Excel Pro.( approx 20k ).- SK
December 8th, 2006Thanks again for all of your input. I figured out how I can look at your website Lloyd and boy was that a wealth more information for me!
You described the Fit Vibe Excel Pro as a negative response pad. What exactly does that mean and how does it limit the machine?
In regards to your studios, are you selling any in Canada right now? I am in Calgary and have been researching opening my own studio. I am quite intrigued by your priorities and goals.
Thanks. “Negative Response” is the term used for the opposing reaction caused when something pushes against you. A “Positive Response” would is the opposite reaction ( as when someone pulls your arm and you involuntarily pull back ).
A negative response pad is only limited by the fact it only really works your muscle in one direction.
And yes I have a global set up system.
Please contact me via e-msail ( on my website at bottom first page ) concerning business as I would prefer this forum to remain marketing free.
- willie
July 29th, 2008Hi Lloyd,
Would you explain the pluses and minuses of a negative response machine as i am just about to rent a fitvibe to try it out for home use.Is the fitvibe comparible to the bodyshaker and vibrogym which is also rentable to demo.I am a 28st guy who obviously needs to loose alot of weight and rebuild muscle.All help greatly appreciated. There is no negatives to a basic platform , just limitations. My Bullet series are only basic and people love them.
To compare brands I would advise you do just that, take the time to try all 3.
Note: The VibroGym and Body-Shaker are the stronger units with the Body-Shaker having a larger selection of Fq.
- willie
August 22nd, 2008Hi Lloyd,
I am still a little confused as to the negative response pad issue.What other types of responses are there and which machines have which type of response(lineal type that is) and why do you say the bodyshacker and vibrogym are more powerfull than the fitvibe pro excel, their website claims they are fully adjustable between 20hz-60hz in 1hz increments.I really appreciate and value your comments in this forum and all your great work in helping people like me make the right choice in quality machines. A negative response…..
Is basically any movement where something pushes at you and you respond by pushing back with equal intensity to re-stabilize .
Note: This is hyper accentuated if gravity plays a part and causes a perfect theoretical , but will also work in any plane as long as some tension is applied.
So a negative response platform is any platform that can only “push” you .
A positive response….
Is the opposite , it pulls you and you pull back to rebalance. Some platform makers attempt to approach this response with straps , but the inconsistency of that equation means the results will always be random. Basically useless and even dangerous for most people. So I don’t rate them.
I have approached this problem with vibration handle bars (2005) you can hang underneath so gravity becomes the constant theoretical again.
Why I am so concerned with theoreticals is I cant write my equations without them , and hence cant design better machines.
I think what I do will all become standard in the future , but at present it is unavailable to the consumer ( unless you are visiting one of my studios ). Everything takes time.
Regarding the power question…..
That has nothing to do with the Fq.
Eg..The FitVibe 600 delivers more power than the FitVibe Excel. Yet they have the same motors , electronics and basic specs.The construction of a machine can change everything , something the marketers of cheap machines don’t want you to know.
- willie
August 22nd, 2008Hi Lloyd,
Can you please explain how i can tell from reading manufacturers specifications how powerfull a machine is or is your answer based on yourself having a much more intimate knowledge of how each machine is constructed.Is any international standards applied in the industry? How can i tell from manufacturers specs. that their machine is a negative response machine or is this something they dont want to really tell us(joe public)also is tri-planar something manufacturers specifically design into a machine or a bye-product of poor engineering?Also i cant find any info about the fitvibe 600, is it the same as the fitvibe smart?sorry for all the questions but you seem to be the only one who will answer them with unbiased knowledge. (1) You cant tell from the specs , I can tell because I am a designer, you will need to actually try before you buy. Or just trust me.
(2) No international standards. Thats how companies like Power Plate get away with conning the public. The public always just assume someone is in charge.
(3) Every machine has that negative response.
(4) Obvious 3D (Tri-Planar) motion is a by product of poor engineering. Except in cases of Low Energy devices like this….
http://www.bauer-sondermaschinen.com/de/sport/fitwip/fitwip.php
(5) Again Power Plate only started up saying 3d is good for you AFTER their machine failed tests. Other companies in the same boat use the same excuse now.
(6)Here is the FitVibe 600…
http://www.opm.ie/whole_body_vibration/fitvibe_600.htm
Similar feel to a Vibro-Gym and other steel units.
- willie
August 23rd, 2008Hi Lloyd,
Thank you for all your help so far.I do understand your comment on going out and trying them all myself but i really dont have the time for that so i will do as you say and trust you!! so i have one more question that hopefully will give me the answers i need.As i have explained before in the forum i am a 40 year old male who weighs app 180kilo, who obviously needs to get back in shape ie.loose weight ,gain muscle and flexability.I fully understand i also need to cardio exercise and follow a calorie controlled diet.Which of these machines would you recomend based on my physical needs and on their power levels(if you could rank them interms of power i would be greatly appreciative)
Hypergravity-total vibe extreme.
Vibrogym-evolution.
Fitvibe-excel pro/600.
Bodyshaker-pro.
Wave-pro.
Please feel free to advise me of any other machine that you feel would suit my needs.I fully understand this is not a marketing site and assure you my request is genuine and for my personal use.I understand fully the importance of your unbiased and balanced views and opinion and greatly appreciate them. Because of your weight the HyperGravity unit is your only reasonable choice.
I have yet to tests the Evolution myself for power/amplitude loss under pressure. So that unit could be fine.
- willie
August 24th, 2008Thanks Lloyd for your input in my quest.Can you explain the choice of the Hypergravity unit as i was leaning toward the Wavepro because the of the 1500lbs max user weight, i thought it must be very powerfull to be able to take that much weight.Am i right in thinking your choice has something to do with the construction of the machine ie.the number, type and power of the motors coupled with the amplitude and the frequency range or is there even more to it?The reason i keep asking all this is i am used to purchasing and operating heavy construction equipment, which is fairly easy to gain a general understanding of its capabilities by just reading the specs.All help greatly appreciated.
The Wave units are more Phyio based. Its not that its not good or anything in fact its what should be in most Hospitals, its just you seem to want more of a training unit.
Both will hold their Fq and Amplitude but the way they do that is quite different.
- willie
August 24th, 2008Hi Lloyd,
I agree the Wave unit certainly even looks more like a medical device.Would you kindly explain the different way the machines work(in laymans terms) or is this something with equations etc.that i probably wont understand.I am looking definetly for a training machine and accept your advice entirely, i am just so confused about how the public are meant to evaluate machines thru their published specs when there is a whole lot more to it than what the manufacturers actually publish.Very frustrating business!!! The manufacturers themselves are confused and dont know the difference . From my talking to them the ones that are coming close to better devices are doing it by accident and is really a result of just uncompromised engineering.
This is the order it will be understood….
Step 1 Building units without limitations
Step 2 Bio-Mechanical principle applied to the engineering.
Step 3 Anaerobic equation applied.
Most companies are still on step one. And they will only learn more when they are forced to by the consumers expectations.
All you need to know is HyperGravity has completed step one for workout models.
Hello Willie,
As I am running a small studio with FITVIBE, I can share my knowledge with you by responding to some discussion between Lloyd and you.
1) The frequency adjustment of FITVIBE EXCEL PRO is actually 5 Hz per step in normal user interface. However, it is possible to go into “service manual” to make fine tune per 1 Hz. For example, the service technician can change 40 Hz setting to become, say, 43 Hz. After going back to user interface, you will still see 40 Hz but the Unit actually runs at 43 Hz. This feature is integrated for dealing with resonance problem to the environment.
2) Lloyd commented FITVIBE 600/MEDICAL series delivers more power than FITVIBE EXCEL series. I partially agree. If these two machines are placed side by side and people test them by standing on these machines, I think most people will rate FITVIBE 6OO/MEDICAL more powerful. However, if we compare their technical specification, we would find the opposite. It has caused me some time to try finding out the reason. First, I read from Lloyd’s previous comment between high quality steel platform and plastic platform. And then I found out the shelf of the platform of FITVIBE EXCEL series is although plastic, the motors are actually mounted on a piece of stainless steel with exactly same size matching dimensions of the plastic platform shelf. Theoritically, the plastic platform and the steel plate underneath are well bonded together and vibration energy loss should be least. My conclusion to explain the difference is the size of the platforms. FITVIBE 600/MEDICAL is 800 x 420mm and FITVIBE EXCEL is 1050 x 650mm. The power density of FITVIBE 600/MEDICAL is therefore higher. However, if one further compare the two units by pulling their training straps, one can clearly feel FITVIBE EXCEL is more powerful.
Another factor we should consider is the sensation of user (user’s preference). My centre was set up with 4 x FITVIBE MEDICAL and 4 x FITVIBE EXCEL PRO since I expected half of clients would be rehab cases and half would be general fitness training. I regret for that decision very soon after we went into operation. Most of our clients did not like or could not tolerate the vibration of FITVIBE MEDICAL. Our physiotherapist and I actually found FITVIBE MEDICAL could be “cruel” to patients with knee problems; or to elderly people. If I had the opportunity to try both models before I placed my order, I probably would have ordered only FITVIBE EXCEL PRO or more of it and less of FITVIBE MEDICAL. Our clients appreciate not only the smoother vibration of FITVIBE EXCEL PRO but also its larger platform that makes them feel safer and allows more different poses.
3) I agree with Lloyd that training strap is not ideal for transmitting vibration energy due to inconsistency. However, this is the only option we can get unless we can access Lloyd’s studio or HYPER-GRAVITY which is installed with its optional handle-bar. In our practice, we can still see possible training effect with the training straps.
4) FITVIBE 600 and FITVIBE SMART are different rank of devices. FITVIBE 600 is professional grade, powered by two motors with loading capacity up to 250 kg. FITVIBE SMART is designed to entertain home-use market, it is built with single motor with loading capacity up to 150 kg. Although Willie, you are a home-user, you are prepared to pay prices of professional grade machine like HYPERGRAVITY EVOLUTION and FITVIBE EXCEL PRO therefore I would say you can forget the FITVIBE SMART.
At last, I agree with Lloyd that for those who decide to purchase vibration training unit no matter for commercial operation or personal use, try and compare different machines but not deciding by catalogues or technical data sheets or marketers’ opinion.
TC
- willie
August 25th, 2008Hi Lloyd,
Thanks for all the input, your answer is what i suspected was happening in the WBV industry.I think in time the industry needs to come up with a power rating system, which each machine being rated prior to relaease into the market.
I have also noticed a machine called the Globus Physio Plate Gold that claims to have a Frequency range of 15hz - 70hz.What kind of training would be completed at the low end of the range and also at the high end of the range? Apart from the Pivotal machines(lower range) i have not seen any other machines with this range.Again any input greatly appreciated. - willie
August 25th, 2008Hi Timothy,
Thank you very much for your input into the Fitvibe discussion.It was very helpfull and even better it is based on user knowledge.I am asking all these questions simply because spending 5-7k sterling is a lot of money and would like to make the best decision i can in relation to my longterm goals.
Once again thanks for the input. Physios will find uses for those lower settings. But more for isolation work , not whole body vibration ( standing on the plate )
Note: Mine can go from 1-60Hz but I limit this through the controls for safety reasons.
- willie
August 25th, 2008Hi Lloyd,
Sorry to be a pain but what is the 70hz used for? is it perhaps massage or cellulite breakdown or perhaps a gimmick?
At this point you might be thinking why doesnt he ask the manufacturers these questions.I would if i thought i would get an unbiased answer.Maybe there is some written material somewhere that will give this answer, if so please let me know where. Hi Willie,
I briefly tried GLOBUS PHYSIO PLATE at a medical trade exhibition about 3 years ago. Based on my brief personal experience on the machine and evaluating the background of Globus, I would like to believe Globus is serious in making their vibration devices.
Regarding the frequency range, all decent lineal (vertical vibration) platform are made to work between 20 and 60 Hz. To the low frequency side, machines are made to work from 20 Hz in order to avoid resonant effect on internal organs. The resonant frequency of head and eyes are about 18 Hz. It does not mean it is proved harmful, no one knows so every decent manufacturers of lineal platform avoid to touch that low frequency area. For the high frequency side, some people suggest frequency above 50 Hz has superficial effect which helps to reduce cellulite; again, there is no proof of it yet.
One thing I don’t like GLOBUS is their demo video showing on their website recently. In my opinion, they are careless in guiding the model in posing.
TC
- willie
August 25th, 2008Hi Timothy,
Again thank you for your input and sharing your experiences.I have just found another machine manufactured by pneumex called a pneu vibe pro that claims it can be adjusted up to 90hz frequency.This sounds very high going on what has been said on this site.Is there any danger at that sort of frequency? again any input greatly appreciated. Willie….
@90hz….The muscles cant really keep up with that speed under normal gravity situations. And it may be matching the exact resonance Fq of the eyeballs themselves. So we dont use it.
Australian Government Department of Defence, DSTO
4-8hz soft organs
10-12hz Torso
“AROUND “30hz Head and Neck
60-90hz eyeballs .There is a use for one particular higher Fq I have written theory on but I have not seen this explained. So its probably just a gimmick.
TC…
Yes it is disappointing to see Globus using incorrect/sloppy posture in its own advertising and even still showing people in the sit-up position using no foam mat.
I really wish these companies that are primarily good engineering firms stop pretending to be vibration trainers.
TC….
Just to note the HyperGravity unit with vibration handle bars is only designed for balance for the disabled , not really for being used in a workout.
This is the opinion from someone who has used both systems.
Hi Lloyd,
Thank you for clarifying the use of the handle bar of Hyper-Gravity. What do you think about the idea of their VibroStepper?
TC
Lloyd,
I came across a report on “Mechanical Resonant Frequency of Human Eye” conducted in Aerospace Medical Research Laboratory, USA. It showed the eye resonant frequency is 18 Hz; which is different from your source.
I tried to put a link here so that you and readers can download the report but for some technical reason, my post would not go out if I have the link listed.
TC
I have read multiple differing reports , but I settle on WBV exposure from a seated position in Aircraft and Tanks that show eyesight judgment impairment . The reasons I choose those are because it came from transference points of feet , back and hands. Which are common body parts placed near a machine.
I think you might find the reports you have seen are actually due to increased lumbar activity from standing on a platform ( feet only ) . Which may cause massive eye disturbance but not resonance FQ match.
- willie
August 26th, 2008Hi Lloyd and Timothy,
Pneumex emailed me back and said that the 90hz frequency is an application available for researchers in osteoporosis treatment.Do you guys have any experience with this company?
As always all help gratefuly appreciated. I’m sure Lloyd will answer your questions sooner or later.
However, I just couldn’t resist making a comment.. I checked out Pneumex a while ago. Seriously I didn’t no whether to laugh or cry.
My facial expression while watching their promo video was akin to watching a horror movie..
I’m sure the machine’s are not bad, but man, those positions aren’t safe. This just demonstrates to me they’re lack of knowledge.
Please be careful people, don’t forget you are working on heavy machinery..A note to all..
The more you use the safety program that Lloyd developed for the IVTRB the more you understand the principle.. Less is more.By the way I’ve been working with Lloyd for the last 3 years…
Jealous much!
As Carl said , the machines are actually Ok , but I am always suspicious of companies who allow people to use its equipment in a sloppy fashion on its own advertising material.
It shows a deep lack of understanding in how vibrations are applied to the body safely.
Think about this……
If someone does not understanding basic principles like shearing action on joints then how good is their engineering. Because its one and the same.
Hi Willie,
I totally agreed with Carl’s comment.
Pneumex have a solid background in making rehabilitation equipment. Vibration is probably their latest business development direction. However, after watching their demonstration video, I can only “sigh”!!!
In their video, Pneumex suggested many dynamic training poses; even when lifting heavy bar-bell. The biggest advantage of Vibration Training is it works muscle effectively at static pose and is therefore safer than conventional training. If we perform the training as Pneumex’s suggestion, we are putting ourselves in high risk of injury.
Regarding the 90 Hz issue, I did not find it from Pneumex’s website yet. Their existing products work at 10~60 Hz. My opinion of their attempt to conduct this study of osteoporosis treatment by very high frequency 90 Hz, is probably for marketing purpose. There are already a number of studies on muscular and bone strengthening with WBV by using frequency between 30~40 Hz and with other brand of machines. If a new market player conducts similar studies with similar specification, no one would be interested in studying these studies. If a new market player uses other studies to sell one’s machine, one may feel not comfortable enough as those studies mentioned other brand of equipments which are competitors. The only solution for a aggressive new market player seems to be conducting study with new idea such as using frequency which has not been studied before.
For Osteoporosis treatment, I shall follow a guideline that severe osteoporosis with high risk of fracture under impact should not do WBV. For people who have been diagnosed in potential of in mild stage of Osteoporosis, WBV would be very helpful. And the training parameters are not necessarily different from muscular strengthening program. It is a over-loading principle afterall.
TC
Hello Lloyd,
I’ve checked the Globus video after reading your Aug-25 comment:
“… showing people in the sit-up position using no foam mat.”But actually in this case they are using a foam mat. It may be difficult to notice because it is the same color of the platform base.
Giovanni Ciriani
I mentioned general advertising not just the video…..
Overall not too bad , but the consumer does pick up on stuff like that, even if you tell them 10 times to always use a mat they will follow the worst example they have seen.
And people do use our sites to get tips for how to use home machines. So you may never get a chance to even try and correct them.
The girls knees are also over her toes on that page and is in about the worst half hearted squat I think I have ever seen.
And the guy forgot his ski’s
I notice on the video she has a foam pad but on the front page picture there is no pad, which is what most consumers would see, the video is so brief you can hardly notice the pad.
Why would you promote this position anyway?
September 1st, 2006
Jennifer - fitvibe looks like a decent machine - could you give indication of cost- tks